Depravity & Doing Good & Gen 6

[nwink]

I need some help tying up some *very basic* loose ends of my understanding of Total Depravity. I understand that outside of Christ, each person is depraved in every aspect of their being (ie, extent)...but not as completely wicked as they could possibly be (ie, degree). All people have the work of the law in their hearts as they are still made in the image of God, though that image has been marred.

If unconverted people aren't as corrupt as they possibly could be, then how do we make sense of Genesis 6 where it says "every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually"? If every imagination of the unconverted heart is on evil continually, how can an unconverted person have an inclination to do a good thing?

Similarly, the WCF ch6 states that our first parents "became dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the parts and faculties of soul and body" and that because of our original corruption, "we are utterly indisposed, disabled, and made opposite to all good, and wholly inclined to all evil."

(I mean, I understand people wouldn't be doing these for God's glory out of love for Him. I understand they would be doing these apart from union with Christ by faith, and that these acts would be regarded as "filthy rags" in God's sight)

I'm sure this topic has been addressed before, but I couldn't find a thread clearly addressing my questions. Thanks for the help.

 

[Zenas]

The same reasoning that you applied above applies to those passages. Every thought is evil, but not to its fullest extent. Even a benign thought is in some way evil. While this may seem extreme, define evil. Evil isn't murdering babies or strangling an elderly person, well, not just that, but any deviation from perfection. If your thought deviates from perfection in any way, it is evil-not as evil as it could be, but evil nonetheless.

 

[nwink]

Thanks, Andrew -- that was helpful.

 

[cih1355]

Paul said that he was the worst sinner (1 Timothy 1:15). Just because you and I are not the worst sinners, does not mean that we have some goodness or righteousness of our own. We have none at all.

 

[nwink]

After thinking it over some more, I'm still a little confused and in need of some more clarification. The language of Gen 6 and the WCF stating the unconverted are "wholly inclined to all evil"...makes me confused how the unconverted can do anything good. Would it be correct to say they are wholly inclined to evil because nothing they ever do will ever be completely pure? Would it be correct to say they aren't inclined to do any spiritual good...but can still do seemingly good activities? I know this question seems to have an obvious enough answer...I guess that's just the point of confusion that's tripping me up.

 

[Andres]

WCF stating the unconverted are "wholly inclined to all evil"...makes me confused how the unconverted can do anything good.

I think your problem stems from this idea. No, the unconverted cannot do anything good. I believe there are three standards to be met for an act to be truly good. I forget them exactly, so perhaps another poster with a better memory can help. Essentially we have to do our good deeds in the name of Christ or they are not truly good, so even when the heathen build orphanages and hospitals, the act is not truly good because it's done in their own selfish motivation.

edit: I see Josh beat me to it!

 

[nwink]

Andrew, right, I agree the unconverted cannot do anything good. I was just trying to clear up my own confusion and didn't define my words very well. I was trying to understand how "there is none who does good" and unconverted having hearts totally inclined to evil...fits with...unconverted people doing outwardly "good" deeds. Mostly, I was just needing to understand in the first place what makes "an act to be truly good," as you pointed out. I guess maybe my question, being more of a practical nature, could be summed up as...what exactly do you think would motivate the heathen to build orphanages and hospitals?

Joshua, that's a helpful explanation. So if I understand correctly, "matter" would be a Biblically good action..."motive" would be motivated by love for God and to glorify Him...what would "manner" be?

Thanks, guys.