Featured Destruction of the earth

Discussion in 'Revelation & Eschatology' started by Eoghan, May 11, 2019.

  1. Eoghan

    Eoghan Puritan Board Junior

    Given that God will destroy this earth by fire... ...should we really embrace the idea that humans can save the earth. If we just treat the earth with respect it will look after us. Mother nature, Gaia and all sorts of other notions give a mystic to plain old creation. Watching an advert for tampax (sorry guys) Mother Nature was played by an actress and my immedite gut reaction was that it was a pagan concept imported to an advert.

    We should embrace the idea (theology?) of stewardship but to think that the fate of the planet is in our hands, doesn't it sound a little arrogant?
     
  2. jwithnell

    jwithnell Moderator Staff Member

    Man instinctively knows he must be in relationship with his Creator. If you reject the Creator, the creation itself makes a fairly logical deity.

    The challenge arises when man stands within a system, sees problems, and tries to fix them from within. He can never get enough of a perspective to address the universals.

    Trying to say man can fix the environment takes an absurd leap of faith.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2019
  3. Pergamum

    Pergamum Ordinary Guy (TM)

    God put Adam on earth to tend the Garden. Good stewardship of Creation is essential to the Christian life. There are proverbs about evil men not treating their animals well. The fate of lands inhabited by the wicked are to become desert wastes, whereas the land of the righteous is to be a place that overflows and every man can sit under his vine and fig tree. Therefore, good treatment of nature is consistent with the Bible.

    I believe we can develop a robust Christian environmentalism. Right now environmentalism is controlled by secularists, and so many Christians have over-reacted the other way and have taken on an uncaring attitude towards the environment. It is time we reform environmentalism.
     
  4. Eoghan

    Eoghan Puritan Board Junior

    Prager made the point that far from rejecting religion with the advancement of science we seem to be going backwards, to paganism re: Gaia, Mother Earth!
     
  5. rookie

    rookie Puritan Board Sophomore

    I have never bought in the extreme view of "climate change" or "global warming" on the scale it's currently pushed on us. I do however see that pollution is an issue. As for my part, I could be a little more diligent on how I treat the land I live on. But I don't see how me treating "mother nature" will cause karma, as it's called, in my life.

    We should be good stewards as mentioned above regarding our land, but not in the perspective that we can "reverse" the caused effects of pollution, for which most data produced, is done by government funded research agencies, which then supports the propaganda narrative.
     
  6. Eoghan

    Eoghan Puritan Board Junior

    Green_Bible.jpg I remember being upset by the schofield bible which had headings and subtitles which sought to frame the text of the Bible. It is a breach of one of the principles of translation. Imagine then how I feel about the "Green Bible".

    "Is God green? Did Jesus have anything to say about the environment? With over 1,000 references to the earth in the Bible, the message is clear. All of God's creation—nature, animals, and humanity—are inextricably linked to one another. As creation cares for us, we too are called to care for creation and engage in the work of healing and sustaining it. Read the scriptures anew with The Green Bible as your guide and discover how caring for the earth is not only a calling, but also a lifestyle.

    Special features:

    • Green-letter edition—over 1,000 verses highlighted
    • Green topical index and "The Green Bible Trail Guide" for further study
    • Inspirational essays by scholars and leaders such as N. T. Wright, Barbara Brown Taylor, and Brian McLaren
    • Environmentally friendly—recycled paper and soy-based ink"
    I wonder how they describe the destruction of this Earth before the new Earth is created?
     
  7. Eoghan

    Eoghan Puritan Board Junior

    Greenpeace meets The Message?
     
  8. Pergamum

    Pergamum Ordinary Guy (TM)

    I believe a Christian ought to:

    (1) oppose pollution.
    (2) preserve the environment.
    (3) push for a scientific solution to make all plastics biodegradable.
    (4) be in the forefront of cleaning up the oceans.
    (5) save endangered species.
    (6) advocate ethical farming to reduce the pain of animals who are eaten.
    (7). push for hunting conservation.
    (8) prevent poaching.
    (9) Limit harmful pesticides.
    (10) help cultivate beekeeping and sustainable gardening for our communities.
    add more...

    If God is Lord over the whole world and every inch of it, then we should manage every inch of it well. Only a pig rolls about where it poops.
     
  9. Eoghan

    Eoghan Puritan Board Junior

    I remember reading of a phenomenon called "compassion fatigue". With more and more pressure to "save the planet" people just get numbed by it all...

    1. The UK planned to switch consumers to UHT milk - to save refrigeration
    2. There is a plan to legally set the temperature of your home thermostat to 19 centigrade
    3. People driving diesel are now demonised (time was when diesels were seen as green due to better mpg)
    4. We now have up to six sometimes eight different bins on our property with a complex sorting and uplifting scheme that confuses
    5. We are focused on things like plastic straws (when they could easily be collected for recycling)


    When we focus on these things we don't focus on other things sponsoring children in third world countries and campaigning against killing babies (abortion) drops down the list...
     
  10. Eoghan

    Eoghan Puritan Board Junior

    "Mayor Bill de Blasio held a rally with environmental activists at Trump Tower Monday to promote his Green New Deal and a plan to cap greenhouse gas emission from some private buildings."

    The blatant way that this was slanted suggests there is a lot more behind the Green New Deal than simply saving the planet (which doesn't need saving by the way). I am reminded of the term 'watermelon' in regard to green activists and the frequent alignement of socialist and green agendas.
     
  11. Pergamum

    Pergamum Ordinary Guy (TM)

    Best thing we can do to save the environment is to colonize 3rd world countries and prevent all the pollution that comes out of them. Take over China and half our problem is solved. It is not the West that is polluting. It is China, india, SE Asia.
     
  12. Ed Walsh

    Ed Walsh Puritan Board Junior

    Neither do loads of scientists. This is a now older website but the opinion it holds is still valid. Besides, isn't C02 what plants use to make O2?-not CO for example. Hmmm.
    31,487 American scientists have signed this petition, including 9,029 with PhDs - http://www.petitionproject.org/
     
  13. Eoghan

    Eoghan Puritan Board Junior

  14. Bill The Baptist

    Bill The Baptist Puritan Board Graduate

    I believe we would say “a dime a dozen.”
     
  15. Ed Walsh

    Ed Walsh Puritan Board Junior

    But isn't AOC a true prophet? Do we have to wait 12 years to find out?
     
  16. Jerusalem Blade

    Jerusalem Blade Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    CLIMATE CHANGE AND THE BOOK OF REVELATION: Thoughts on the fourth and fifth vial (bowl) judgments of Revelation 16 *


    Dennis E. Johnson, in his commentary on Revelation, Triumph of the Lamb, when introducing the bowl judgments, says, “As the bowls belong to the symbolic dialect in which John’s visions bring their message, so also the effects of the outpoured bowls are conveyed in symbolic impressions, not photographic reproductions.” (p 224)

    The Scripture on the fourth vial reads,

    And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory (Rev 16:8, 9).​

    I must admit I am not clear about the issues of climate change and global warming, the conflicting reports confusing, so I take no sides in the matter. What I do know is that many agree the earth’s climate is warming, though whether due to human actions or apart from them, or a mixture of the two, I do not know, and many scientists are not clear either. And from John’s words we are to understand it will increase greatly—though through what causes we are in the dark about, save that God will see to it.

    We see that John prophesies in the passage above the heat of the sun will become very intense upon the earth. Yet it must also be remembered that the images depicted in Revelation are “conveyed in symbolic impressions, not photographic reproductions”, so we do not know exactly what to expect. Only hindsight will tell us clearly. Still, it does seem that painfully increasing heat will be our lot. We will all be observing what happens as the months and years go by.

    Then we have the fifth vial:

    And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds (Rev 16:10, 11).​

    As I noted in [the chapter of A Great and Terrible Love] "The Fate of Babylon", G.B. Caird, in his commentary, The Revelation of Saint John, says of the fifth vial of wrath,

    “The darkness was not the three days’ visitation of Exodus x. 21 ff., nor even the paralysing terror so vividly described in Wisdom xvii, but the total eclipse of the monster’s imperial power” (p 204) [italicized bold emphasis added].​

    What is especially interesting about this is that for the destruction of Babylon the mighty Beast-nation that she rides and by whose power she prevails upon the nations, must be suddenly made defenseless (the spirit and power of the Beast—which is from the dragon—is evidently transferred then to another nation or nations), leaving harlot Babylon herself defenseless and vulnerable—to attack and destruction.

    Dennis Johnson says in Triumph of the Lamb,

    The beast’s reign has always been shrouded in spiritual darkness . . . This palpable [present bowl’s] darkness thus exposes the beast’s rule for what it is, a domain of delusion and confusion. John has noted elsewhere that guilty people love darkness for the cover it offers for their evil deeds . . . Yet the beast’s followers find no comfort in the darkness of his domain, but only a disorienting anguish that makes them chew their tongues in despair . . .

    . . . The world system’s center of power, the beast’s Oval Office, cannot be insulated from the wrath of God, who will expose the devil’s darkness for all to see. (p 230)​

    The fourth vial seems to foretell a world overheating to a lethal degree. Are the world’s recent extreme heat-waves a precursor of worse to come? The fifth vial talks of darkness overwhelming the seat—or throne—of the beast. The ancient city of Pergamos was once—because of its political-spiritual associations—called by Jesus “Satan’s seat” (Rev 2:13). The Beast’s headquarters in the end time is given the same designation.

    It may very well be the “darkness” of the vial is not merely symbolic of demonically induced psychological anguish and socio-political chaos, but could also be speaking of that which many hands are striving to accomplish: the taking down of America’s power grid. This sort of darkness—whether it come from “natural” (solar?) causes or man-made (cyber?) activity—in conjunction with extreme heat would literally fry us, especially in summer.

    And not just fry, but—as so many fictional scenarios of the chaos resulting from a loss of electricity have envisioned—a descent into a nation-wide madness and agony hard to imagine. What kind of relief hard-pressed government forces could muster—if any—is unknown. It would probably make Cormac McCarthy’s horror story, The Road, look tame.

    As Babylon’s doom was falling, a voice from heaven said, “How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her” (Rev 18:7). And how much grief and suffering she has inflicted upon the nations of the earth, render that to her as well. So Babylon will suffer before her end, and the nations’ “tumultuous peoples that have served the beast and lusted after his whore” (Johnson, p 236) with her, though less than she who allured and seduced them.

    Such prophetic vision will not be taken seriously—even by many who believe the Scriptures!—until it comes to pass. What protection can there be? These two bowl visions would seem to be poundings that fall upon Babylon before her finale. The only protection I know—so unforeseeable will things on earth be—is to walk closely with Christ. Seek Him, friends who read this book, for He may be found in these days of grace, which is His undeserved favor.

    Nor can it be told how long till such things come to pass. Consider, it took around 50 years from the time of the dimensional gateway opening between the demonic and the human realms through the widening use of sorcery—the psychedelic potions of the sixties counterculture—for the spiritual darkness of Revelation 9’s fifth trumpet judgment to reach the level of psychological devastation it now has. We presently see the next “woe”: the spirit of murder—unrestrained killing—presently at work in ISIS and in “lone wolf” attacks the world around. For the sixth trumpet of Rev 9 to reach fulfillment one third of the world’s population must die, most likely in the conflagrations of war, though pandemics of lethal disease could do the job as well.

    It may be that the destruction of Babylon, and possibly the Jewish State along with her, could be that “one third”, in which case these words would subsequently be read only in other parts of the world. But Babylon and the State of Israel may not be those wiped out—it may be others, and possibly through disease.

    In any case, the half century it took for the fifth trumpet to be well-realized did accelerate the madness possessing the leaders of the world—just look at the U.S. elections for president in 2016, and the goings on of other leaders around the world!—as well as the people, for the descent into moral evil has moved rapidly, even in just a few years. Things may happen—may change—more quickly than we expect. So who is to say that it will be soon—a few years—for whore Babylon to morph into the blood-drinking murderess of Christians (Rev 17:6), or long—a few or more decades—of dystopian oppression for her to reach her apex of iniquity? But when she does, that will be the sign her destruction is imminent, and our full redemption near.

    As the Lord Jesus said, “Watch and pray.” Be alert, vigilant, aware of the times—and stay near to Him, communing with Him intimately, that you not be taken unawares when “Men’s hearts [are] failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth” (Luke 21:26). Be sure you are knit closely into a Bible-believing church, under the life-giving word and Spirit of God—even if that exposes you as being one of the despised “Christians”, for they only shall survive the wrath that shall be loosed from Heaven. The resurrection will prove the promise that not a hair of your heads shall be harmed (Luke 21:18). The just shall live by faith.

    The sixth bowl—Revelation 16:12-14, 16—is also of great interest, but I have spoken of it above and below, and in the section Armageddon, in the brief chapter named, “Images of Armageddon”, so I will not speak of it here.

    ______


    * Excerpted from the chapter, “Thoughts on the fourth and fifth vial (bowl) judgments of Revelation 16”, in the section, BABYLON, in the larger book, A Great and Terrible Love: A Visionary Journey from Woodstock’s Sorceries to God’s Paradise. Free digital copies: https://goo.gl/EQ9L9d . Paperback: http://amzn.com/0983519498

    ______


    I think there is merit to Perg’s thought that we should be responsible stewards of our environments. Just because the earth shall be subjected to the Lord’s severe judgments on the environment does not mean we should be irresponsible with God’s world, even as the increasing lawlessness of our culture does not give us license to become unjust. God has promised that He shall “destroy them which destroy the earth” (Rev 11:18).
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019 at 4:20 PM
  17. Eoghan

    Eoghan Puritan Board Junior

    "When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him."
     
  18. C. M. Sheffield

    C. M. Sheffield Puritan Board Junior

    Perg,

    The word "ought" implies a moral duty. You seem to be saying it is every individual Christian's duty to engage in these environmental endeavors. Notwithstanding the fact that many of the things you list would be difficult if not impossible to define, most Christians would be unqualified to speak about most of these complex issues much less prescribe definitive solutions that would be implemented. Perhaps you would like to clarify your statement. As it is, you would seem to be suggesting that every Christian not actively engaging in environmental activism is guilty of a moral transgression.
     
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  19. Jerusalem Blade

    Jerusalem Blade Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    C.M Sheffield,

    You make a good point—and bring balance into the equation. I have no calling to engage in those activities Perg lists, save such as might be applicable in my life and setting—like don't contribute to pollution, or do things that damage my environment or hurt living things.

    Living in NYC the environment I am in is highly toxic in many aspects, and I try not to worsen it, and also to avoid as much of its poison as I can. Perg, on the other hand, lives in a much more primitive land and is closer to nature where such harm is clearly seen.

    My calling primarily pertains to the saving of souls, and helping the brethren, and other works of mercy.

    Thanks for the common sense!
     
  20. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Freshman

  21. C. M. Sheffield

    C. M. Sheffield Puritan Board Junior

    I cannot begin to imagine the complexity of environmental issues. I do believe it is good and right for governments to have and enforce reasonable environmental policies. But when this goes too far, and ideology supplants science and data, you can actually do more harm to the environment and or the people you are meant to serve.

    We live in a fallen world. The curse is found in every cure. The effects of the fall will be evident in the best things we produce. That isn't to say we shouldn't look for more or better cures for all that ails man and the world. But it does mean nothing will finally cure it all this side of the Kingdom of God.
     
  22. Pergamum

    Pergamum Ordinary Guy (TM)

    Every Christian is to love others and to take care of what God has given him. Stewardship.

    This is true even from the beginning: Genesis 1:28, when he said to Adam and Eve, "Be fruitful and increase in number, fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

    Ruling well means not to destroy what God has put into your charge.

    Proverbs 12:27, "The lazy man does not roast what he took in hunting, But diligence is man's precious possession."

    Proverbs 12:20, "A righteous man regards the life of his animal,But the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel."

    Romans 1 tells us us the general revelation provided by nature. The Book of Nature shows forth the glory of God. Therefore, we admire and preserve that beauty.

    God takes care of his creation and this causes us to praise God for that care (feeding, sendign rain, etc). We are made in the image of God and charged also to care-take over the earth as God's represetnative (Psalm 104, 145, 147).

    Man and animals are linked. God has bound us together. This is an echo of Adam in the garden naming the animals and the animals not being afraid of him. Though nature is fallen, it is still glorious and admiring the beauty of nature causes us to praise God.

    The place that God created for Adam was called very good, and it was a garden full of plants and animals. Gardens, plants, and animals still elicit praise when we admire them. We should preserve all that is good about these things.

    Littering and despising the gifts God has given us is ungratefulness to God and sin. If God has given us clean water and nice vistas and woods full of animals to enjoy, to be ungrateful and to not take care of these thingsis sin.

    Redemption is not just individual. God is going to renew the whole creation. Therefore, our actions towards creation ought to reflect that.

    Practically, if we take good care of nature, it will take good care of us. Trees do provide oxygen, good farming provides good food, conserving wildlife and bees provides honey and bounty to us. Bad care results in pollution and human misery and hunger.

    Larger animals have intelligence and can feel pain. We are duty-bound not to cause them needless pain. Humane farming and salughtering is Christian.

    God made OT provisions for the care of animals in Deuteronomy 22.

    We need not be reactionary because leftists often push unwise environmental policies. We should lead the way as Christians in reforming environmentalism and making wiser laws.



    -----

    “The little birds are singing of God; the beasts cry unto Him; the elements are in awe of Him; the mountains echo His name; the waves and streams cast their glances at Him; the herbs and flowers praise Him.” -John Calvin

    “There is no creature so small and abject, but it reflects the goodness of God.” -Thomas a Kempis

    “The initial step for a soul to come to knowledge of God is contemplation of nature.” -Irenaeus
     
  23. C. M. Sheffield

    C. M. Sheffield Puritan Board Junior

    Okay. Let me be more focused. I'll take just one item from your list. Do you seriously believe that every single Christian should be "in the forefront of cleaning up the oceans"?

    If so, what does that mean? How would you counsel the members of my church here in Rocky Mount to "be in the forefront" of this effort to clean up the oceans? What does that mean for Christians in Kansas or Oklahoma?

    What would you say to those who disagree with you? Should they be subject to church discipline? I mean this is a moral obligation, right?

    What do you say to those who are on board 110%? How do they, not only show some awareness for this problem, but get on the "forefront" of cleaning the oceans? What organizations do they need to join? What training do they need to get? How much of their time and money do they need to invest?

    What happens if they are supportive of this effort, but not truly on "the forefront"? Should they doubt their salvation? Should they repent? Should they quit their jobs if that's what it takes? If this is truly what Scripture requires, the answer should be an emphatic Yes, Yes, and YES!

    That's what I hear you saying. If that isn't what you are saying, then think of how you might moderate your language to more accurately reflect what you really believe.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019 at 12:08 AM
  24. Pergamum

    Pergamum Ordinary Guy (TM)

    Let me throw it back to you.

    If you saw a member of your church littering or treating his livestock abuseively, or poaching, what would you do? If they had a boat leaking lots of oil into the water, would you be silent or encourage them to clean it up? Is it an obligation to do these things?
     
  25. C. M. Sheffield

    C. M. Sheffield Puritan Board Junior

    I will gladly answer your questions. But I really must ask you to first answer the questions I've put to you.
     
  26. Pergamum

    Pergamum Ordinary Guy (TM)

    That was my answer. You don't have to do everything, but each Christian is to live according to the bible. And the bible gives us some clear guidelines in this area.

    So....you DON'T want to take care of the environment? So you think it is ok to litter and not a moral obligation of Christians to not litter? If you had a known poacher in your church, you wouldn't talk to him about it?
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2019 at 12:48 AM
  27. C. M. Sheffield

    C. M. Sheffield Puritan Board Junior

    I am sorry, but I do not agree that a series of unrelated questions constitute an answer to my questions.
    I've already said...
    I really am not sure how you could think I was against taking care of environment. My only concern is that your own statements seem to run to the other extreme of insisting on environmental activism as a necessary part of Christian living. That is why I invited you to clarify your comments.
     
  28. Eoghan

    Eoghan Puritan Board Junior

    Perhaps we should ask ourselves what the top five priorities should be in our lives? I try not to drop litter, if I do I try and go back and pick it up (character is what you do when nobody is watching). I can't say that it is one of the top five priorities.

    Most of what "snowflakes" focus on is external, global and trivial. You will never know if using a paper straw saves a whale from dying due to plastic microparticles.

    Sponsoring a child in a third world country however... is focused, localised and measurable.
     
  29. Jo_Was

    Jo_Was Puritan Board Freshman

    I agree. In my studies and being mentored by a conservation biologist, I have found that many of the practices and aims have aligned with a Christian ethic in more ways than what I expected that it would if my only basis were the caricatures of overreactive Christians.

    One thing that I have recently dwelt upon is how much of the theological, moral, and societal ethics given by God to Israel were mirrored in his instruction in care for the land/creatures themselves. I think of in Leviticus and the instructions of the Sabbath years--not only were they years of forgiveness and mercy and grace for the people (debtors, neighbors), but the land itself was given reprieve so that it might bring prosperity in the future. I think that can speak much into how the Christian's duty to neighbors and reaching the lost often goes hand in hand with tending to the earthly needs. Constantly slaving the land without reprieve only produces drought in the long term and in the short term diminishes our ability to care fully (we literally lack enough/good fruit!) for the people that God has put under our care.

    Also, God made the creation for his glory. He made the creatures themselves for his glory; they were 'good' before Adam was even placed in dominion over them. Having a completely laissez-faire attitude toward tending to the creation seems a show of utter disrespect to that which God made for his own glory.

    Psalm 104 is one of my favorites. If I end up teaching in a Christian private school, that will be my science classroom psalm. I cannot in good conscience read Psalm 104 and think my role as an image bearer is complacency.
     
  30. Jo_Was

    Jo_Was Puritan Board Freshman

    What doesn't get talked about in sensationalist headlines is that this already is, and has been, a long, deep, wrought-out conversation in the field of conservation biology. There are many philosophies to environmentalist or conservation aims; it's not all the cookie-cutter "snowflake" caricature that extracts all human element, I promise. I have been under the scientific mentorship of a conservation biologist, and have explored this topic some in my studies. The line he tends toward, and what I have become most aligned with, is the class of conservation biologists who try to balance the human aspect with the environmental issue. And that is a lot wider of a group than most sensational media would like people to believe-- that there are many conservationists who believe that if you teach a man to fish in a way that promotes the continual health of the bay that he fishes from, he really will never go hungry again because the resource won't deplete! There are many conservation and environmental organizations that take into account the situations of the people, and are in fact focused on the local people to develop strategies that fit specific communities. And I think there is much room for Christians to work through these means, with an even greater understanding of "why" we ought to.

    One example of an area where we might see this concordance is in third-world agriculture in Africa or Asia. We recognize that water is a depleting resource and hard to obtain in many parts of the world, that deforestation has made once-thriving forests and cropland now arid, inhospitable regions, and, at least some, are concerned of the carbon footprint of certain agricultural or livestock farming practices, and many of these issues only expound issues of poverty. There have been many advocates of making insect cultivation and farming the alternative to large livestock, especially in areas where these resources (space and water) are not readily available. Instead of having to forgo water for the village in order to feed a herd of cows, crickets would not only use exponentially less resources, but also could be a means to provide nutrition and protein to people who cannot easily obtain it (Another fun tidbit: it's actually more efficient to gain the raw nutrients from veggies second-hand from a cricket than getting that secondarily from a cow.) It's easier laboriously, with resources, and could have impactful ramifications not just for the land and creatures but for the people that live in these areas! Many organizations who have supported cricket farming also do so in an economical way-- supporting those in second and third world countries to be entrepreneurs, to grow in learning to navigate the socioeconomic dynamics where they may otherwise have no other profitable opportunity.

    One could also explore how using more environmentally conscious means of agriculture (polycropping, utilizing forest edges, inviting bird species, etc) not only benefits the earth, but the people who farm. Current science is finding that our traditional methods of agriculture are not as efficient and are not the best long-term methods for feeding an ever-increasing population. This is another area where working specifically with "the people" IS the best method and how many conservationists actually go about implementing plans.

    All that to say, there doesn't have to be an "all or nothing" responses to these situations as if caring for people means you don't care for the environment, or caring for the environment means you aren't focused on people. We can be Christians who recognize the need of the people as well as those who can recognize that current practices are not the most beneficial, either to the earth, or to humanity, and, thus, should be reexamined in order to benefit those involved.

    I do resonate with the dissatisfaction of how science is communicated to the public in poorly thought-out mantras that do little to no effect. I think our greatest problem in the first world is mostly in our throw-away, quick-use mentality (and I think that manifests in the media as "straws are evil" but this mentality is not just with small things, but even costly, built-on-the-backs-of-hard-labor things like cars and phones that are not only excessive but repeatedly used and thrown out far-too-early. That I think is a matter of our philosophy of consumption. And I think that in itself reflects a specific heart problem that the western world struggles with--we have an easy believism in our faith in which things get thrown out easily there also, so it's not surprising to see physical manifestations of such a mentality. It's also an example of how different cultures interact with the natural world in different ways. Second-world countries are the ones most responsible for our current emissions (bad air quality), for instance, and for different reasons. It's a complicated story when you start to see how different people really do have different philosophies and how there's not a one-size-fits all answer. This is why it is so important for many in the field of conservation and environmental science to consider specific societies and communities in their efforts.

    And this is especially why I think there is room for Christians to step up and initiate conversations in this realm.
     

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