Did God Create in 6 Days?

[dbroyles]

I thoroughly enjoyed the book and highly recommend it.

 

[Grillsy]

Honestly, this is something I struggle with. Baggage from a heathen up-bringing most likely.
Is the book worth it?

 

[Grace Alone]

Wow, this book is currently on sale for $1.00 with a limit of one per customer!

Did God Create in Six Days?

 

[sastark]

So, I just finished chapter 5 ("The Framework Hypothesis: An Interpretation of Genesis 1:1-2:3" by Mark Ross).

No offense to Dr. Ross (who's other material I have enjoyed), but how can anyone hold to such a strange doctrine as the Framework Hypothesis? It just doesn't make sense!

Anyway, I'm still enjoying the book. I'm about to start chapter 6, which should be interesting since one of my professors at Biola was lauding Collins' view of Gen. 1 a couple of semesters back.

-----Added 7/27/2009 at 06:50:09 EST-----

Honestly, this is something I struggle with. Baggage from a heathen up-bringing most likely.
Is the book worth it?

Willie, I think so! I mean, it's only a dollar (plus S&H, so about 7 bucks total). I've read the first 5 chapters and found them to be very interesting.

 

[Jake]

Question: Did God Create in 6 Days?
Answer: "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them" -Ex 20:11 NASB and "for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth" -Ex 31:17 NASB

 

[Grace Alone]

So, I just finished chapter 5 ("The Framework Hypothesis: An Interpretation of Genesis 1:1-2:3" by Mark Ross).

No offense to Dr. Ross (who's other material I have enjoyed), but how can anyone hold to such a strange doctrine as the Framework Hypothesis? It just doesn't make sense!

Anyway, I'm still enjoying the book. I'm about to start chapter 6, which should be interesting since one of my professors at Biola was lauding Collins' view of Gen. 1 a couple of semesters back.

-----Added 7/27/2009 at 06:50:09 EST-----

Honestly, this is something I struggle with. Baggage from a heathen up-bringing most likely.
Is the book worth it?

Willie, I think so! I mean, it's only a dollar (plus S&H, so about 7 bucks total). I've read the first 5 chapters and found them to be very interesting.

Do you mean Hugh Ross? Dr. Mark Ross is an Erskine seminary professor who I greatly admire.

 

[Montanablue]

Randy,
What is the version of Hall's paper in the book? I did a bit of research work for him. Several versions of David's paper are online such as here.

Chris,
It looks more like the revised one that the first one links to. But it is still a little different I think. It is outstanding and quite forceful in requiring those who wish to make the Divines say something that they didn't, fess up to wishful thinking or to produce better material that proves the Divines held to a long age day interpretation. Because of the challenges to his first paper, David Hall went back to search out the sources and they still come up short according to his revision which is evidently only an improvement upon his first paper.

I really appreciated seeing how Morton Smith put this in a historical perspective (per the denominations) in the first chapter of the book. I am still plowing my way through it slowly.

You want to know something. I am reading this book because of my son Joshua Caleb. He has been discussing this stuff with his teacher and class at School and confounding him. Josh had a test on evolution and flunked it because he wrote truthful answers to the questions. Boy is he in trouble now. NOT.

Josh has had to learn to be respectful. The teacher Mr. Steven's did try to pull one on the students by asking why would God create all the little insects and smaller life. Josh just replied, "because he wanted to." Simple answers for complex minds. I would have said something to the effect of God's Glory is revealed... yadda... yadda... yadda...... and they are a part of the food chain. Sometimes simple is good.

Not to get off topic, but one of my friends was in a similar situation and I thought his way of dealing with it was good. He wrote all of the "correct" answers on the test - basically answered as though he was an evolutionist. But on the top of the paper, he wrote that he was merely answering according to the theory of evolution and that he did not believe that this theory was correct - he were merely showing that he had studied and understood the theory. I thought that was good way to show the teacher that he wasn't lazy without having to say something that he didn't believe

 

[sastark]

So, I just finished chapter 5 ("The Framework Hypothesis: An Interpretation of Genesis 1:1-2:3" by Mark Ross).

No offense to Dr. Ross (who's other material I have enjoyed), but how can anyone hold to such a strange doctrine as the Framework Hypothesis? It just doesn't make sense!

Anyway, I'm still enjoying the book. I'm about to start chapter 6, which should be interesting since one of my professors at Biola was lauding Collins' view of Gen. 1 a couple of semesters back.

-----Added 7/27/2009 at 06:50:09 EST-----

Honestly, this is something I struggle with. Baggage from a heathen up-bringing most likely.
Is the book worth it?

Willie, I think so! I mean, it's only a dollar (plus S&H, so about 7 bucks total). I've read the first 5 chapters and found them to be very interesting.

Do you mean Hugh Ross? Dr. Mark Ross is an Erskine seminary professor who I greatly admire.

No, I mean Mark Ross. He is the author of chapter 5 on the Framework Hypothesis. I like other things he has done (his elder/deacon training DVD series has been most enjoyable and edifying!), but on this issue, I strongly disagree.

 

[Jon Peters]

I kindly asked Chris if he could unlock this old thread, as I've just received my copy of Did God Create in 6 Days? I've read the first two chapters and am midway through the third and can't put the book down.

Who else has read it? What are your thoughts?

Did any of my fellow ARP-ers note that Morton Smith singles us out for exclusion in the third sentence of his chapter? Ouch! I would have been interested in a little Seceder history in addition to the PCUS/PCA history.

Also, does anyone know how to get a hold of a copy of Dr. Frank J. Smith's PhD dissertation "The Philosophy of Science in Late Nineteenth Century Southern Presbyterianism"? I'd love to read that, but can't find it in the CUNY catalog (which seems to be not working) and I can't find any contact information online for Dr. Smith. (I'd like to ask him a couple of things about his article in the Confessional Presbyterian "American Presbyterianism, Geology, and the Days of Creation.")

Very good book. Pipa's essay is very strong.

There is a "three views" book out there with responses and so forth that I believe presents a better case for the Framework Hypothesis. It was written by Lee Irons and Meredith Kline. The other views are well represented in the book. Ligon Duncan is the editor: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Genesis-Debate-Three-Views-Creation/dp/0970224508/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1248736625&sr=1-1]Amazon.com: The Genesis Debate : Three Views on the Days of Creation (9780970224507): J. Ligon Duncan III, David W. Hall, Hugh Ross, Gleason L. Archer, Lee Irons, Meredith G. Kline, David G. Hagopian: Books[/ame]

 

[Grace Alone]

So, I just finished chapter 5 ("The Framework Hypothesis: An Interpretation of Genesis 1:1-2:3" by Mark Ross).

No offense to Dr. Ross (who's other material I have enjoyed), but how can anyone hold to such a strange doctrine as the Framework Hypothesis? It just doesn't make sense!

Anyway, I'm still enjoying the book. I'm about to start chapter 6, which should be interesting since one of my professors at Biola was lauding Collins' view of Gen. 1 a couple of semesters back.

-----Added 7/27/2009 at 06:50:09 EST-----



Willie, I think so! I mean, it's only a dollar (plus S&H, so about 7 bucks total). I've read the first 5 chapters and found them to be very interesting.

Do you mean Hugh Ross? Dr. Mark Ross is an Erskine seminary professor who I greatly admire.

No, I mean Mark Ross. He is the author of chapter 5 on the Framework Hypothesis. I like other things he has done (his elder/deacon training DVD series has been most enjoyable and edifying!), but on this issue, I strongly disagree.

Does he promote that view or is he just explaining it? I am sort of surprised because he is conservative otherwise and one of the best preachers I have ever heard. Thanks for the clarification, though. I've ordered the book, so I will be able to read it.

 

[sastark]

No, I mean Mark Ross. He is the author of chapter 5 on the Framework Hypothesis. I like other things he has done (his elder/deacon training DVD series has been most enjoyable and edifying!), but on this issue, I strongly disagree.

Does he promote that view or is he just explaining it? I am sort of surprised because he is conservative otherwise and one of the best preachers I have ever heard. Thanks for the clarification, though. I've ordered the book, so I will be able to read it.

He promotes it and calls it his own:

"My views have principally derived from the early work of Meredith G. Kline....In fairness to both Kline and Futato, my discussion here should not be understood as an exposition of their views." [emphasis in the original] (114, n. 3).

 

[Jon Peters]

Do you mean Hugh Ross? Dr. Mark Ross is an Erskine seminary professor who I greatly admire.

No, I mean Mark Ross. He is the author of chapter 5 on the Framework Hypothesis. I like other things he has done (his elder/deacon training DVD series has been most enjoyable and edifying!), but on this issue, I strongly disagree.

Does he promote that view or is he just explaining it? I am sort of surprised because he is conservative otherwise and one of the best preachers I have ever heard. Thanks for the clarification, though. I've ordered the book, so I will be able to read it.

The Framework Hypothesis is held by many conservative, Reformed pastors and scholars.

 

[Fly Caster]

Question: Did God Create in 6 Days?
Answer: "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them" -Ex 20:11 NASB and "for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth" -Ex 31:17 NASB

My thought on seeing the title of this book was "Well, this could quite possibly be the shortest Theology book ever written..."

 

[DMcFadden]

I couldn't get the link to work either. I just had to go to the main page and find the book.

Did God Create in Six Days?

Wow! Thanks for the tip, Josh. I already own the book but could not resist it at that price to send to my son who pastors in Illinois! What a deal!

I am a Pipa fan!

 

[rpavich]

Wow....I bought the book $1.00!!! thanks for the tip..

I've always went by what Ken Ham (answers in genesis) said:

The only way to fit millions of years (or any other alternate solution) into the 6 days of creation is to bring some outside idea and try to cram it INTO the bible.

If you read Genesis for the genre that it is; and read the "yom's" as what they indicate they are...as you would in any other OT book literal 24 hr days...then you arrive at a 6 day creation.

When you ask questions like "what if a day was 1000 years?" "What if the days are really millions of years?" and similar, it's showing a presupposed bias to not read the text as you would other biblical texts, and that's a strong indicator that you are not being honest with it.

When you read the following:

Have all the warriors march around the city one time; do this for six days. Have seven priests carry seven rams’ horns in front of the ark. On the seventh day march around the city seven times, while the priests blow the horns.


You'd NEVER say "I wonder how long they marched around the city??
or
"Could he really have meant 6 million years?"


And why? Because we see no reason to monkey with Joshua, but Genesis...we need to fit dem millions of years in...we are trying to cram modern science into what the bible says.


that's just my take.

 

[CDM]

Of course he did. There is no other reason originating from Scripture he did otherwise.

 

[brianeschen]

One of my favorite sections of the book is in Morton Smith's first chapter. Smith includes an excerpt of Bryan Chapell's "President's Goals and Report" in which President Chapell argues that it is not important whether a literal or figurative creation day is taught at the denominational seminary. Following this report, Morton Smith includes a letter from Jack B. Scott entitled "The Handwriting on the Wall." Dr. Scott draws from his understanding of what Scripture teaches (he has a Ph.D. in Hebrew and Semitic languages) as well as from his extensive experience in the Presbyterian Church (starting in PCUSA and then in the formation of the PCA in '73) to warn of the dangers of what Chapell is promoting. Here are a couple of excerpts from that letter (all page references refer to Did God Create in 6 Days? Edited by Joseph A Pipa, Jr. and David W. Hall) . . .

. . .

I have been blessed to serve this church in various capacities over the past years and have recently retired from the active ministry in the church. So why am I writing now?

I see things, once again, which are disturbing, in particular, the issue over the "days" of Genesis 1. There are those in our denomination who will tell you that to insist on understanding those days as meaning 24 hour days, such as we experience today, is to "go beyond Scripture." Don't you believe it! That is precisely what Scripture does say. Clearly, God intended that we understand it that way by repeating, at the end of each day of creation, "there was evening and there was morning" day one and on, through six days of creation. To understand it any other way would be to add to or to take from God's Word. [p. 37]

. . .

But how can we compromise Scripture? God gave it, as he gave it, and we cannot yield on that. If the Lord did not intend that we understand it as six normal days, as we experience them in everyday life, then why would he give to each day an evening and a morning? And why would he repeat this teaching, later, in the giving of the Law to Moses? [p. 38]

. . .

The president of Covenant Seminary, in defending as possible another interpretation of days than the literal 24-hour day, insists that Covenant Seminary has not changed. But I do not find that assuring at all. Did they begin with that position? Then they began wrong. [p. 39]

. . .

The president of Covenant Theological Seminary says that his concern is to be as true to the Biblical text as is humanly possible. My concern is that the Church accept the Bible as God has given it, whether it seems humanly reasonable or not! The issue is not whether our church be large and influential, by broadening its teaching to include those who question what the Bible has clearly taught, but whether we remain faithful to God's Word. Paul was viewed as having less than success by some of the Corinthian church members. His response was that his desire was not to please the multitudes but to be a sweet savor of Christ unto God. "We are not as the many, corrupting the word of God, but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God, speak we in Christ" (2 Cor. 2:14-17). We should desire every teacher of the Word in our denomination to have just that same commitment. [pp. 39-40]

. . .

He concludes with this . . .

Who am I? I am a watchman expected by God to give warning. I would be derelict in my duty as a teacher in the Presbyterian Church in America if I did not give warning in these days of great danger to our church. I do not wish to see this church go down the path that other Presbyterian denominations have gone down earlier in this century. God did not bring this church into existence in order that it should so soon take the path that leads away from the authority of God's Word, in its teaching.

"Has God said?" was the question initially put to our first parents, Adam and Eve. Satan, in various guises and ways has been putting that same question to every church established to do God's will. What will our answer be? [p. 40]

Yes, this was one of my favorite parts of the book.

 

[rpavich]

Hey! Don't ruin it for me!!

I'm really looking forward to reading this one.

 

[brianeschen]

Hey! Don't ruin it for me!!

I'm really looking forward to reading this one.

Just trying to get folks interested in this great book. Sorry if I ruined it for you.

 

[PuritanCovenanter]

I fixed the link in the first post. Here it is again.

Did God Create in Six Days?

It is only for One Dollar right now. Woo Hoo.

 

[wallingj]

Just bought it for $1 at the site!!!