Dispensationalism/Scofieldism.

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brothermiller

Puritan Board Freshman
Greetings in our Lord Jesus Christ brethren.I have been a dispensationalist for quite a long while.I have never regarded it as unbiblical until recently in the last 6 months or so.I have heard sermon after sermon spewed from Southern Baptist and Independent Baptist pulpits over the years as a thus saith the Scripture.I decided since I believed what I believed because thats what the preacher teaches and it is more popular so it must be.Many have told me I was not to question eschatolgy {i.e.dispensationalism}because it has been past down from the New Testament Apostles on through the centuries.

I figured well before I make a decision to reform I will have to decide that after an exhaustive investagation.Many in the Independent Baptist circles defend dispensationalism even to the point of marking you as a heretic.I must under great conviction tell my baptist brethren Southern Convention and Independent Fundamentalist that I fear dispensationalism is a serious error launched upon the reformation Puritans as a evil Counter-Attack on sound doctrine.

For those brethren who think dispensationalsm is not to be questioned I beseech you brethren by the mercies of God to be as the Berean`s to search the Scriptures whether these things be so.{Acts 17:11}

My research has shown that Scofield`s life disqualified him from being a leader of any kind in the Church.What my research based upon documents proved him to be.Also he did not even have a Biblical education and how men today accept his notes as a thus saith the Scripture amazes me.DR Scofield was a title he gave himself and he ignored {2nd Peter 1:20} and {Rev 22:18-19}.

Also {Proverbs 18:13} He that answereth a matter before he heareth it,it is folly and shame unto him.

I will have to put it into sections.

It is incredible that only one book has been written about one of the most influential men in Evangelical history. That book is "The Life Story of C. I. Scofield" by Charles Trumbull, Oxford University Press, New York, 1920. In 1960, William BeVier, a Master's student at Southern Methodist University, completed a thesis, "A Biographical Sketch of C. I. Scofield." This has not been published, but it is found in some Evangelical school libraries and contains important information. In 1942-43, the late Arno Gaebelein wrote a series of articles for Moody Monthly, "The Story of the Scofield Reference Bible."

Until 1984, these were the only sources offered by Evangelicals for material on the life and credentials of their most prominent Bible teacher whose notes have influenced the church and changed its direction. Thorough research was begun in 1984 by Joseph M. Canfield to compile his book, The Incredible Scofield. His information was gleaned from many sources. Genealogical data was supplied by Ruth Scofield Kennedy from a branch of the Scofield clan.

Other records come from:

University of Michigan Historical Society.
Episcopal Historical Society.

Encyclopedia of the History of St. Louis

Missouri Historical Society, St. Louis.

Kansas Historical Society.

U.S. Department of Justice, National Archives.

U.S. Census for Michigan 1869, Lenawee County.

U.S. Census for Tennessee, Wilson County.

Confederate Research Center.



City Directories, court records, newspaper articles of the period, both American and British, ship sailings, etc. Information was obtained from the papers of Emeline Papin's Estate, Cyrus' sister, on file in St. Louis County Courthouse, Clayton, Missouri. Some facts were gleaned from Laura Scofield Lames, another sister, St. Louis Directory, 1877, public libraries, and many other sources too numerous to mention.

Canfield did a masterful job of searching out the material for his book, which may be obtained from J. M. Canfield, 129 Kyfields, Weaverville, N.C. 28887.
 
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Jimmy the Greek

Puritan Board Senior
I'm not sure I understand the "Blog feature", but nevertheless, cutting and pasting huge amounts of text is not normally accepted "forum" etiquette. It is best to include links to the material offsite (if possible) -- accompanied by summary comments. Otherwise, I suppose the Blog feature is available for that purpose, I'm just not familiar with it.

:2cents:
 

toddpedlar

Iron Dramatist
Brother Miller -

You do understand, right, that this is a REFORMED board? There are no dispensationalists here to argue against. Also, as Rich noted, please do not post
long extracts of articles in a normal forum post. Either post links to articles that you
are interested in promoting, or use the blog feature. This isn't a place for filling a forum with long articles from someone else's pen.

Todd
 

brothermiller

Puritan Board Freshman
Brethren this article is not promoting dispensationalism but seeing it as false doctrine.Also Todd you say no dispensationalist here.What do you think most baptist are and I see many here?

Just curious.


I tried deleting them all but the 1st wont let me.
 
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Jimmy the Greek

Puritan Board Senior
I know there are at least some former dispensationalists -- and perhaps a few moderate dispensationalists active on the board by special dispensation. :eek: But a supposed requirement for membership includes adherence to one of the Reformed Confessions which de facto excludes dispensationalism.

At any rate, we may discuss dispensationlism issues (there is a specific forum for this under Covenant Theology) but we can't promote it . . . not that Brothermiller was. :lol:
 

VictorBravo

Administrator
Staff member
Well I assure you I am no longer a dispensationalist and I decided that on my own free-will.

Oh boy. ;)

BrotherMiller, may I make a suggestion? Finding out what is wrong with Schofield or dispensationalism was a beginning, but now would be a good time to focus on what are the basics of the Reformed faith. You obviously are not afraid of reading. A good place to focus your energies right now would be to read Calvin's Institutes. It is very clear writing.

You may wonder why I emphasized the "free-will" part of your quote. It's because often the first thing former dispensationalists run smack into as they unpack the Doctrines of Grace is the Sovereignty of God. As we learn more about this, we discover that "free-will" is a very suspect phrase.

Blessings.
 

Jimmy the Greek

Puritan Board Senior
Brother Miller. Please take the posts above as coaching and informing, not bashing. No offense is intended. Newcomers to the Forum are really welcome. . . really. It takes some time to get the feel of the place. :cool:
 

brothermiller

Puritan Board Freshman
Well I assure you I am no longer a dispensationalist and I decided that on my own free-will.

Oh boy. ;)

BrotherMiller, may I make a suggestion? Finding out what is wrong with Schofield or dispensationalism was a beginning, but now would be a good time to focus on what are the basics of the Reformed faith. You obviously are not afraid of reading. A good place to focus your energies right now would be to read Calvin's Institutes. It is very clear writing.

You may wonder why I emphasized the "free-will" part of your quote. It's because often the first thing former dispensationalists run smack into as they unpack the Doctrines of Grace is the Sovereignty of God. As we learn more about this, we discover that "free-will" is a very suspect phrase.

Blessings.





Have you Consider these? Hebrews 2:3: “How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him.”


Hebrews 3:12-14: “Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.”


Hebrews 4:9-11: “There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.”


Hebrews 6:4-6: “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”


Hebrews 10:26-29: “For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”



God bless
 

Kim G

Puritan Board Junior
You may wonder why I emphasized the "free-will" part of your quote. It's because often the first thing former dispensationalists run smack into as they unpack the Doctrines of Grace is the Sovereignty of God. As we learn more about this, we discover that "free-will" is a very suspect phrase.

Have you Consider these? Hebrews 2:3: “How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him.”

Hebrews 3:12-14: “Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.”

Hebrews 4:9-11: “There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.”

Hebrews 6:4-6: “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”

Hebrews 10:26-29: “For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”

Are you trying to disprove the sovereignty of God? With Bible verses? Those verses mean many things, but they don't say that God is weak and allows people the ability to thwart His plans (so-called "free will").

I found that reading Martin Luther's book Bondage of the Will was a big help in getting my mind around idea of God's sovereignty. Perhaps you would enjoy that book, too.

Now, I grew up in a fundamental baptist church myself, so I know where you're coming from. There are a lot of things that have to be "de-programmed" as you read the Bible for yourself. But if you actively promote the fact that you don't believe in God's sovereignty, then why are you a member of this board? It contradicts both the London Baptist Confession and the Westminster Confession of Faith.
 

VictorBravo

Administrator
Staff member
Well I assure you I am no longer a dispensationalist and I decided that on my own free-will.

Oh boy. ;)

BrotherMiller, may I make a suggestion? Finding out what is wrong with Schofield or dispensationalism was a beginning, but now would be a good time to focus on what are the basics of the Reformed faith. You obviously are not afraid of reading. A good place to focus your energies right now would be to read Calvin's Institutes. It is very clear writing.

You may wonder why I emphasized the "free-will" part of your quote. It's because often the first thing former dispensationalists run smack into as they unpack the Doctrines of Grace is the Sovereignty of God. As we learn more about this, we discover that "free-will" is a very suspect phrase.

Blessings.





Have you Consider these? Hebrews 2:3: “How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him.”


Hebrews 3:12-14: “Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.”


Hebrews 4:9-11: “There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.”


Hebrews 6:4-6: “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”


Hebrews 10:26-29: “For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?”



God bless

Yes, my friend, I have. This isn't the thread for an in-depth discussion on these verses. But if you really want to dig into them, you might try John Owen's exposition on Hebrews. A relatively short summary of his massive work can be found here:

Hebrews - Google Book Search

Also, you might consider Matthew Henry's commentary on the passages you quoted. He is easily accessible on-line.

I'm sure others can come up with even more helpful resources.

"Tolle Lege" (pick up and read) some good old stuff to get a background on what it means to adhere to the confessions and what is the Reformed faith. :book2:
 

Kim G

Puritan Board Junior
Brethren this article is not promoting dispensationalism but seeing it as false doctrine.Also Todd you say no dispensationalist here.What do you think most baptist are and I see many here?

Reformed baptists (I'm one of them by default) are a funny bunch. :lol: They are not dispensationalist, because they see the church of Christ throughout both the Old and New Testaments (to put it briefly). Yet they do not carry the image of circumcision from the OT to infant baptism in the NT, like the Presbyterians, Lutherans, etc.
 

brothermiller

Puritan Board Freshman
Brother Bottomly have you read Dave Hunts book what love is this?I bought Tolle Lege 1599 restoration Geneva Study Bible with the Puritan notes.I find so many mistakes in the so-called reproduction in the text.I feel robbed by buying a Bible with so many typographical mistakes they clearly did not warn the customers about.

God bless.
 

toddpedlar

Iron Dramatist
Brethren this article is not promoting dispensationalism but seeing it as false doctrine.Also Todd you say no dispensationalist here.What do you think most baptist are and I see many here?

Just curious.


I tried deleting them all but the 1st wont let me.

Brother Miller -

This is intended in the most friendly fashion: please read the rules of the board, and there you will find that everyone here, including yourself, has signed up with the express confession of one of the confessional standards allowed by the board. Dispensationalists cannot subscribe to any of the standards we support - hence their doctrine is anathema here. None of the baptists on board are dispensationalists - all subscribe to the 1689 London Baptist confession (at least) which will not allow for a dispensationalist interpretation.

Todd
 

brothermiller

Puritan Board Freshman
Kim G Says:

Are you trying to disprove the sovereignty of God? With Bible verses? Those verses mean many things, but they don't say that God is weak and allows people the ability to thwart His plans (so-called "free will").


Brother Miller ask.

Kim G since the verses I mentioned in Hebrews can mean many things what does this verse mean?

{2nd Peter 1:20}AV

Knowing this first,that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.


God bless.
 

Kim G

Puritan Board Junior
Kim G since the verses I mentioned in Hebrews can mean many things what does this verse mean?

{2nd Peter 1:20}AV

Knowing this first,that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.


God bless.

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear. When I said "these verses can mean many things," I meant that each verse you quoted may not be saying the exact same thing as the other verses, not that each verse has many interpretations. Mea culpa (or however that's spelled!) :lol:
 

brothermiller

Puritan Board Freshman
Todd you clearly have not understood me.I am NOT a Dispensationalist.I have been to many boards and have never experienced not even from atheist some of the the harshness as expressed here.

God bless.
 

Pilgrim

Puritanboard Commissioner
Todd you clearly have not understood me.I am NOT a Dispensationalist.I have been to many boards and have never experienced not even from atheist some of the the harshness as expressed here.

God bless.

Todd did not say you are a dispensationalist. What he was trying to communicate to you is that there aren't any dispensationalists on the Puritan Board because a dispensationalist cannot subscribe to the London Baptist Confession of 1689 due to its teaching on covenant theology. In other words, if you're looking for a place on the internet to argue with dispensationalists, this isn't it because being a dispensationalist is against the board rules. While many if not most Baptists are dispensational (especially in Fundamental and in many Southern Baptist churches, as you have noted) there are many Baptists who are not dispensationalists, but instead are amil or historic premil (post-trib).

If you have a burden to dissuade Baptists from dispensational views, you may want to try other forums like the Baptist Board or Sharper Iron where that view is more prevalent.

Blessings,
 

Seb

Puritan Board Junior
Todd you clearly have not understood me.I am NOT a Dispensationalist.I have been to many boards and have never experienced not even from atheist some of the the harshness as expressed here.

God bless.

Brothermiller,

I think Todd's saying that if you've come here to argue against Dispensationalism / Scofieldism that it's a mute argument on the Puritanboard, because there is no one here to argue against. In other words, "you are preaching to the choir."

You are right, there are MANY Baptists on the board, but they (like yourself) are NOT Dispensational.

I've read all of your posts and the replies to them and I'm wondering where the harshness is that you're claiming?

I see the Mods/Admin gently giving you advice and guidance.
 

Jimmy the Greek

Puritan Board Senior
Todd you clearly have not understood me.I am NOT a Dispensationalist.I have been to many boards and have never experienced not even from atheist some of the the harshness as expressed here.

God bless.

Todd did not say you are a dispensationalist. What he was trying to communicate to you is that there aren't any dispensationalists on the Puritan Board because you cannot be a dispensationalist and subscribe to the London Baptist Confession of 1689. In other words, if you're looking for a place on the internet to argue with dispensationalists, this isn't it because being a dispensationalist is against the board rules. While many if not most Baptists are dispensational (especially in Fundamental and in many Southern Baptist churches, as you have noted) there are many Baptists who are not dispensationalists, but instead are amil or historic premil (post-trib).

Blessings,

In other words, you are preaching to the choir :sing: and no extensive argumentation against dispensationalism is needed. We all agree with you in principle. Peace.

Dangit. Steve types faster than me.
 

brothermiller

Puritan Board Freshman
London Baptist Confession of 1689 teacheth free will no?

Chapter 9: Of Free Will

1._____ God hath endued the will of man with that natural liberty and power of acting upon choice, that it is neither forced, nor by any necessity of nature determined to do good or evil.
( Matthew 17:12; James 1:14; Deuteronomy 30:19 )
2._____ Man, in his state of innocency, had freedom and power to will and to do that which was good and well-pleasing to God, but yet was unstable, so that he might fall from it.
( Ecclesiastes 7:29; Genesis 3:6 )

3._____ Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation; so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able by his own strength to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.
( Romans 5:6; Romans 8:7; Ephesians 2:1, 5; Titus 3:3-5; John 6:44 )

4._____ When God converts a sinner, and translates him into the state of grace, he freeth him from his natural bondage under sin, and by his grace alone enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good; yet so as that by reason of his remaining corruptions, he doth not perfectly, nor only will, that which is good, but doth also will that which is evil.
( Colossians 1:13; John 8:36; Philippians 2:13; Romans 7:15, 18, 19, 21, 23 )

5._____ This will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to good alone in the state of glory only.
( Ephesians 4:13 )
 

FrielWatcher

Puritan Board Sophomore
Perhaps, just an idea, it would be better to email board members in private who know about what you are looking for. From your profile description:

I come to fellowship and to learn of our Historic roots of Post Dispensationalism.

Blessing to you!
 

Jimmy the Greek

Puritan Board Senior
Regarding your reference to Dave Hunts' "What Love is This?", are you suggesting that this is good?

James White, a Calvinist, and others have charged Hunt with misrepresenting Calvinistic teachings, and as having insufficient knowledge of Reformed theology, or original Biblical languages, to accurately evaluate Calvinism.

Also published in 2004 was Debating Calvinism: Five Points, Two Views, co-written in a point-counterpoint debate format between Hunt and James White. Hunt was demolished. You won't find sympathizers for him here on the PB.
 

Pilgrim

Puritanboard Commissioner
No, not in the Arminian sense of free will that is usually thought of, where man is absolutely free to do as he chooses in every circumstance. This article compares the differences before and after the fall. See point 3 especially on how this article does NOT teach free will as many Baptists and others understand it.

London Baptist Confession of 1689 teacheth free will no?

Chapter 9: Of Free Will

1._____ God hath endued the will of man with that natural liberty and power of acting upon choice, that it is neither forced, nor by any necessity of nature determined to do good or evil.
( Matthew 17:12; James 1:14; Deuteronomy 30:19 )
2._____ Man, in his state of innocency, had freedom and power to will and to do that which was good and well-pleasing to God, but yet was unstable, so that he might fall from it.
( Ecclesiastes 7:29; Genesis 3:6 )

3._____ Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation; so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able by his own strength to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.
( Romans 5:6; Romans 8:7; Ephesians 2:1, 5; Titus 3:3-5; John 6:44 )

4._____ When God converts a sinner, and translates him into the state of grace, he freeth him from his natural bondage under sin, and by his grace alone enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good; yet so as that by reason of his remaining corruptions, he doth not perfectly, nor only will, that which is good, but doth also will that which is evil.
( Colossians 1:13; John 8:36; Philippians 2:13; Romans 7:15, 18, 19, 21, 23 )

5._____ This will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to good alone in the state of glory only.
( Ephesians 4:13 )
 

Kim G

Puritan Board Junior
1._____ God hath endued the will of man with that natural liberty and power of acting upon choice, that it is neither forced, nor by any necessity of nature determined to do good or evil.
( Matthew 17:12; James 1:14; Deuteronomy 30:19 )
2._____ Man, in his state of innocency, had freedom and power to will and to do that which was good and well-pleasing to God, but yet was unstable, so that he might fall from it.
( Ecclesiastes 7:29; Genesis 3:6 )

3._____ Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation; so as a natural man, being altogether averse from that good, and dead in sin, is not able by his own strength to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.
( Romans 5:6; Romans 8:7; Ephesians 2:1, 5; Titus 3:3-5; John 6:44 )

4._____ When God converts a sinner, and translates him into the state of grace, he freeth him from his natural bondage under sin, and by his grace alone enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good; yet so as that by reason of his remaining corruptions, he doth not perfectly, nor only will, that which is good, but doth also will that which is evil.
( Colossians 1:13; John 8:36; Philippians 2:13; Romans 7:15, 18, 19, 21, 23 )

5._____ This will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to good alone in the state of glory only.
( Ephesians 4:13 )

To boil down what it says:
1. Man's will was not determined toward good or evil when he was created.
2. Before the fall, men were free to do good.
3. After the fall, man has lost his ability to do anything spiritually good. He has no free will to obey God.
4. Upon regeneration, man is once again able to do that which is good, but he still upon occasion wills evil because of his corruptions.
5. We will only have a good and perfectly free will in the state of glory.

I really think you would profit from reading Luther's Bondage of the Will. I found that it really helped me think through this issue.

Having said that, I apologize for getting the thread off-topic. Moving on . . .
 

VictorBravo

Administrator
Staff member
Brother Bottomly have you read Dave Hunts book what love is this?I bought Tolle Lege 1599 restoration Geneva Study Bible with the Puritan notes.I find so many mistakes in the so-called reproduction in the text.I feel robbed by buying a Bible with so many typographical mistakes they clearly did not warn the customers about.

God bless.

It seems we have a misunderstanding. When I said "Tolle Lege", I meant that you should go read some of things I suggested, like Calvin's Institutes and Matthew Henry's Commentaries.

I was not telling you to buy books from the publisher Tolle Lege (although that's not a bad idea), and I'm sorry about your experience with the Geneva Bible, but even with the typos there is a lot of good you can glean from the notes.

And, again, yes, I've read Dave Hunt's book. It is garbage plain and simple.

Please, read some good solid material. The PB is a good place to get information, but all of us have to do a lot of work on our own to even understand some of the issues that come up here.
 

toddpedlar

Iron Dramatist
Todd you clearly have not understood me.I am NOT a Dispensationalist.I have been to many boards and have never experienced not even from atheist some of the the harshness as expressed here.

God bless.

As others have noted, I never have been confused about your position vis a vis dispensationalism.

It is clear that you are not a dispensationalist.

I am saying that you do not need to overload forums here with large articles arguing against dispensationalism simply because it is impossible for a dispensationalist to be a member here - so there are NO dispensationalists here. So I'm suggesting you save your breath for other discussions.
 

Herald

Administrator
Staff member
Steven,

This comment of yours:

I have been to many boards and have never experienced not even from atheist some of the the harshness as expressed here.

...is going down the wrong road fast. I strongly suggest you read what others are writing and respond charitably. Moderators watch these threads and take decisive action when there is evidence of an uncharitable nature or a violation of the 9th commandment. You're new here so take a piece of advice: watch, read and listen. Post circumspectly. Go back and read the rules and understand what this board is about.
 
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