Do believe a Pastor "needs" or "should" go to seminary?

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T.A.G.

Puritan Board Freshman
If one has an undergrad from a very solid college in biblical studies (including a yr of greek and hebrew) do you believe that person should still go to seminary if he as well as others feel he is ready to pastor now?

I am finding that if you have a ba that means youth pastor in the sbc and mdiv means pastor or ass. pastor. And oh how I can stand the "youth pastor" job.
 
It is a little different for Presbyterian denoms vs. SBC. If you were in a Presbyterian denom I would say as long as you can pass the exams, I don't really care what your educational background is.

Also I grew up in the SBC and none of my pastors had an MDiv. I would imagine the MDiv is a given for larger congregations, but most of the smaller ones would love for you to have a BA.
 
To be a pastor, one needs the knowledge necessary to be apt to teach and convince the gainsayers. Is Seminary necessary for this? Maybe, maybe not. If it helps you gain the necessary knowledge, go for it. If you can be mentored by another elder or group of elders who can teach that knowledge, go for it. The "Degree" is not what is important, it is the knowledge. The "degree" has become a safety net for churches and in some senses a bad one. Sometimes, it overrides the need of a man to prove himself. Because they say there is no need, after all, he has a seminary degree. It is unfortunate that a seminary degree has become a prerequisite to the pastorate in a lot of places. This, in my opinion, is unbiblical. Nowhere in the Scriptures is is required for a pastor to have a "formal" education from a Seminary. Instead, the example we have are elders training up other elders within the context of the local church. Is it therefore wrong to go to seminary? To me it depends on the motive. If you are going just as a help to gain knowledge, it is a good thing. A lot of men, however, go out of pride (not saying you are). After all, it looks really cool to have a ton of initials after your name. Unfortunately, churches have become good at requiring certain things out of a potential pastor that are completely unbiblical to require (MDIV, PHD, DD, married, X years of experience, etc.) :2cents:

So, to answer your question. Do whatever you can to gain the knowledge necessary for the pastorate. If you feel like you need to go get an MDIV to do that, go right ahead. But I would not feel required to do so.
 
"Needs to"? "Should"? Depends on the situation. But if you're still young and able to go to seminary, and especially if your calling to be a pastor is confirmed by people who say you're ready now, then I think you'd be wise to go to seminary.

Pick a good one where the training will truly be supurb and will give you more training than you have already, and take this opportunity to go. It will open up many more opportunities in the future, and makes you better prepared for yet unknown situations.
 
More and more I'm gravitating to non-traditional education as a means of preparing for pastoral ministry. I like how MWCTS operates; distance learning in theological studies while being mentored by the pastor/elders. The student is gaining academic and real ministry experience at the same time. Also, the education is under the authority and guidance of the local church. I'm not saying this is the only method of educating. Situations do occur where it is better for the student to attend a brick and mortar school. There is no best option, although I believe it is preferable for the local church to have involvement in training of ministers.
 
Do you think a medical doctor should go to medical school?

And what does this question have to do with training for the ministry? Apples and oranges.

Quite. We do not find guidance as to the training of doctors in the Word of God, but we DO for pastors/elders.

My answer to this (oft asked) question is - From my perspective, if I could, I would. I have done a part time seminary course but I would have loved to have had some full time, and especially language, study. But no, it is not neccessary. A presbyterian pastor friend of mine who has an M.Div and is also doing an M.Th now, advises me that apart from the languages, given my current level of practical experience and knowledge, I would be very bored on large parts of an M.Div course. (He attended one of the seminaries most recommended on the PB).
 
The whole of the issue is having reliable, Biblically qualified and gifted men. If a man is trained up in the local church, a long term mission or a seminary, he is qualified by who he is, not what a piece of paper states. I believe the best ones to determine who is called, gifted and ready are those already serving as pastors. One thing that I find troubling is seeing a young pastor struggling financially because of the debt they racked up by going to seminary. I also believe that a pastor should be paid according to a formula based on the congregation's income, not some pay scale according to degrees. A friend of mine in the SBC was basically treated like dirt because he didn't have a MDiv. degree. If the committees that interviewed him actually knew the man, they may have had bidding wars to see who could get him. This is just a rant by someone who has seen problems with some of the policies and practices of American Christians, so take it for what it's worth.
 
It depends. I think I believed I had a pretty good grasp of many things before I took seminary classes but seminary has taken me to some depths I had not expected as well as a time of reflection.

I really think the "get a degree and then get a call" model is flawed. Leadership, piety, and prudence take some time to develop. The reason I would wince at the idea of a BA only approach is mainly because I wince at the idea of a 22 year old Pastor (extraordinary exceptions aside). Frankly, a man in his mid-twenties doesn't make me much more comfortable. It's not a hard and fast rule but education is but one aspect of a minister's call (an important one) but I wouldn't want to be taking any shortcuts to get men in Pastorates any faster than some get into them today.
 
My pastor went to WTS, but what really appeals to me is not what he studied years ago, but the fact that he is constantly reading now, and listening to good CDs. He also has a strong, steady, personal devotional life ( as does his wife). He has been in situations recently with many very discouraged and burned out pastors, and they want to know why he has joy and is still going strong, and he says he tells them it comes back to the basics- read the bible and pray, every day; seek God all the time. I want a pastor that has a lifetime habit of bible, prayer, and reading good books. I could care less if he got a BA or an MDiv or a ThM.
 
A pastor should be well-trained, well-educated, and well-vetted by a well-trained, well-educated, and godly Presbytery. That doesn't necessarily always mean seminary proper, but often does. What's more important is that a Presbytery well vets men coming out of seminary for good doctrine, godly piety, etc.

:agree:
 
In principle, I suppose I am compelled to say that it is not necessary for a man to have successfully completed academic preparation for the ministry at a Seminary.

In practice, I think that only a seminary can realistically bring together the group of instructors with the breadth and depth and diversity of thought (within confessional conformity) necessary to properly provide a man with the academic training needed.
 
Do you think a medical doctor should go to medical school?

If seminaries were under reliable guidelines and accountability like medical schools are, then I would say pastors should go to seminary. Unfortunately, statistics show that more than have of seminary students do not even believe in the inerrancy of Scripture.
 
Do you think a medical doctor should go to medical school?

If seminaries were under reliable guidelines and accountability like medical schools are, then I would say pastors should go to seminary. Unfortunately, statistics show that more than have of seminary students do not even believe in the inerrancy of Scripture.

... and according to an article cited in a recent thread... some seminarians don't even write their own papers!
 
Do you think a medical doctor should go to medical school?

If seminaries were under reliable guidelines and accountability like medical schools are, then I would say pastors should go to seminary. Unfortunately, statistics show that more than have of seminary students do not even believe in the inerrancy of Scripture.

Hence, the oversight of the local church. One aspect of ministerial preparation is observing whether a man is called to such office. A student can go through seminary and graduate with a 4.0 and be no more qualified to shepherd a flock than a blind man is qualified to drive a car. Pastoral gifts are as important as mastering Greek declensions. After all, pastoring is shepherding. If a pastoral candidate is under the observation of his elders and demonstrates proper pastoral skills, fine. But if he is short of temper, overly sarcastic, unreliable, undisciplined etc., then he may not be a worthy candidate for pastoral ministry. Seminaries are not necessarily the best judges of Christian character. Again, this doesn't mean seminaries don't serve a purpose or that each local church is set up to provide the necessary training. If local churches took their responsibility seriously there would be more men being trained locally. There is much work to be done in this area.
 
In principle, I suppose I am compelled to say that it is not necessary for a man to have successfully completed academic preparation for the ministry at a Seminary.

In practice, I think that only a seminary can realistically bring together the group of instructors with the breadth and depth and diversity of thought (within confessional conformity) necessary to properly provide a man with the academic training needed.

I think 'ordinarily in our society' would be more precise word than 'only'. There were no seminaries in the early church and there are many places in the world where seminaries do not and could not exist.
 
More and more I'm gravitating to non-traditional education as a means of preparing for pastoral ministry. I like how MWCTS operates; distance learning in theological studies while being mentored by the pastor/elders. The student is gaining academic and real ministry experience at the same time. Also, the education is under the authority and guidance of the local church. I'm not saying this is the only method of educating. Situations do occur where it is better for the student to attend a brick and mortar school. There is no best option, although I believe it is preferable for the local church to have involvement in training of ministers.


MCTS is the real deal. It offers both distance and on-site education. I've been here since August and have grown tremendously, both from classes and from personal interaction with the pastors. For example, every 1st and 3rd Saturday there is scheduled pastoral mentoring (though there is spontaneous mentoring throughout the week), where students have the opportunity to preach and receive constructive criticism, outline passages with a view to future preaching, receive instruction on pastoral ministry, and consider matters of the church. Today we dealt with music in the church: it's purpose, the consideration of instrumentation, etc. There are also Table Talks scheduled each month in which the pastors teach the men of the church, though primarily the MCTS students, about pressing issues within our faith; for instance, next weekend is Table Talk and Pastor Sam will discuss the Family Integrated Church movement. Opportunities like this abound, and are beside the actual classes. It's been a wonderful experience so far, and a real answer to prayer. And of course, that is only the MCTS portion, whereas our church (Heritage Baptist Church in Owensboro, KY) is a true blessing in itself; it is extremely conducive to growth in the things of and love for the Lord.

So, "should" a pastor go to seminary? Not necessarily. However, a seminary out of the local church is a biblical and helpful model for pastoral education. I am extremely grateful to be a part of it. There is accountability here that is simply not possible in many circumstances, and the pastors won't recommend a student to be a minister unless he is qualified. Praise God.
 
A person needs to either go to a Seminary, or be in a very in-depth discipleship program with a very knowledgeable, well trained Pastor, for a minimum of three years. If you had a Bachelor of Divinity or Theology that might be different, but just a BA degree (of which much has nothing to do with the Bible, I am sure)? Definitely need more training.
 
A person needs to either go to a Seminary, or be in a very in-depth discipleship program with a very knowledgeable, well trained Pastor, for a minimum of three years.

How about 2.96 years, or does it need to be the full three?
 
A person needs to either go to a Seminary, or be in a very in-depth discipleship program with a very knowledgeable, well trained Pastor, for a minimum of three years.

How about 2.96 years, or does it need to be the full three?

Depends on the pastor.

---------- Post added at 07:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:33 PM ----------

I want a pastor that has a lifetime habit of bible, prayer, and reading good books. I could care less if he got a BA or an MDiv or a ThM.

I'd take (and want) both.
 
Originally Posted by Herald
Originally Posted by Damon Rambo
A person needs to either go to a Seminary, or be in a very in-depth discipleship program with a very knowledgeable, well trained Pastor, for a minimum of three years.
How about 2.96 years, or does it need to be the full three?
Depends on the pastor.

Well, since we're grading on a curve why not 2.4 years or 1.8?
 
Well, since we're grading on a curve why not 2.4 years or 1.8?

I'm not talking about a period of time. I'm talking about a person being formally trained and who has a rich devotional life AND is still interested in learning. Not just in the Bible or theology, but about everything in life. What is read and studied by such an individual will depend on interest and intellect.
 
Well, since we're grading on a curve why not 2.4 years or 1.8?

I'm not talking about a period of time. I'm talking about a person being formally trained and who has a rich devotional life AND is still interested in learning. Not just in the Bible or theology, but about everything in life. What is read and studied by such an individual will depend on interest and intellect.

Ivan, I agree. I was just taking the opportunity to poke holes in the argument that a certain period of time is needed to determine whether a person is properly qualified to be a minister of the Gospel. I mean, if it's going to be three years, why not four? Five? Eight?
 
According to the OPC BOC, CHAPTER XXI

LICENSING CANDIDATES TO PREACH THE GOSPEL

3. It is highly reproachful to religion and dangerous to the church to entrust the preaching of the gospel to weak and ignorant men. The presbytery shall therefore license a candidate only if he has received a bachelor of arts degree, or its academic equivalent, from a college or university of reputable academic standing, and has completed an adequate course of study lasting at least one year and a half in a theological seminary.

Based on our BOC, a man does not need to have an M.Div, but it is certainly desirable for him to have one.
 
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According to the OPC BOC, CHAPTER XXI

LICENSING CANDIDATES TO PREACH THE GOSPEL

3. It is highly reproachful to religion and dangerous to the church to entrust the preaching of the gospel to weak and ignorant men. The presbytery shall therefore license a candidate only if he has received a bachelor of arts degree, or its academic equivalent, from a college or university of reputable academic standing, and has completed an adequate course of study lasting at least one year and a half in a theological seminary.

Based on our BOC, a man does not need to have an M.Div, but it is certainly desirable for him to have one.

I understand why they have this, because they don't want a "weak or ignorant man" but, respectfully, it is completely unbiblical to REQUIRE 1 year and a half of seminary much less a BA. Otherwise, every preacher in the Bible was unqualified. God has given us the requirements for a pastor. This also would be almost impossible for a man in a 3rd world country. I know that you did not make the rule, so I am not directing any of this toward you but the OPC is wrong.
 
Well, since we're grading on a curve why not 2.4 years or 1.8?

I'm not talking about a period of time. I'm talking about a person being formally trained and who has a rich devotional life AND is still interested in learning. Not just in the Bible or theology, but about everything in life. What is read and studied by such an individual will depend on interest and intellect.

Ivan, I agree. I was just taking the opportunity to poke holes in the argument that a certain period of time is needed to determine whether a person is properly qualified to be a minister of the Gospel. I mean, if it's going to be three years, why not four? Five? Eight?

I've been ordained for 27 years and I hope I never stop learning.
 
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