Do Muslims and Jews Both Worship same God as us?
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Ryan&Amber2013
Puritan Board Senior
I think that sounds okay. One thing I think of though, is Jesus basically saying that if you don't know Him, you don't know the Father. So apart from Christ, the true God seems to be outside of one's grasp in the present aga.
Those who claim to know God, but deny the Son; neither do they know the Father. None of them know God; and those who do not know him do not worship him. They don't simply mistake a false mediator for the True. They have NO Mediator.
1Jn.2:23, "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also."
Messiah Jesus spoke thus to the Jews:
John 8:18-19, "I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also."
They who say they know the true God, but deny the Son, are liars.
John 8:54-55, "Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying."
1Jn.2:23, "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also."
Messiah Jesus spoke thus to the Jews:
John 8:18-19, "I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also."
They who say they know the true God, but deny the Son, are liars.
John 8:54-55, "Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God: yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying."
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
Allah is a self-enclosed monad
WSC Q. 2. What rule hath God given to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy him?
A. The Word of God, which is contained in the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, is the only rule to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy him.
One can only worship God by means of the rule He has given us in the Old and NEW Testament. What ever other religions do, it is not 'worshipping God'. It makes one wonder what it is they are worshipping.
A. The Word of God, which is contained in the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, is the only rule to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy him.
One can only worship God by means of the rule He has given us in the Old and NEW Testament. What ever other religions do, it is not 'worshipping God'. It makes one wonder what it is they are worshipping.
The Jewish people know of the real God, but deny His Son, so not in a saving fashion, but Islam does not even have the true God to start with , correct?
Do both of them pray than to a false god, or is it that the Jews pray to real one, but are not in a saving relationship with Him unless receive Yeshua, while Muslims pray to a false god period?
You might say the Jews see Yawah in types and shadows. The NT acknowledges an advantage because they received the word first. Legalism stiffles apprehending the gospel. I have spoken with people using the common language of the OT. I have encountered disdain because I am Goyim, or have become bogged down by the Jews arguing among themselves about nuances regarding the fencing of tbe law. (How many hours after eating beef must you wait before drinking milk?)
Anyone not praying to "The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ," is petitioning a false god. According to the Son himself, you cannot acknowledge the first element apart from the second. And the Apostles agree, by echoing the Lord's teaching or repeatedly demonstrating it by an active confession.
Jesus said, "[Ye] search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life," Jn.5:39-40.
In other words: to come to the God revealed in the Scriptures of the OT and NT, is by definition to find Christ there. So, if Christ is not found of them who "own" the correct text--or even just a portion of them--they are not meeting the truth, nor the true God which is Truth itself. To know the Truth and the True God is to know Christ, Jn.14:6.
Men not acted upon by the Holy Spirit do not know God or seek him. They may take his Name upon their lips, or quote his reliable revelation; but just as with the calf they substituted for Jehovah at the foot of Mt.Sinai, the god they address is not Him who brought them out of Egypt.
The knowledge such persons have is not (in the main) the kind that the demons have, which know the God of Truth and tremble having no Savior (Jas.2:19). We are talking about sincere but ignorant people, who employ the "map" of the Way to a futile end. So much worse, then, for those who have glimpsed the Way of Truth unto Life in the Bible, and have suppressed it. How can these be said to pray to the One Lord God, and not to an idol?
Islam is completely against Jesus being the Son of God; against his crucifixion, death, burial, and resurrection; and claims the Christian Bible is corrupt and Christians in their doctrine have gone to great excess.
Let's contrast what the Bible says about Jesus being the Son of God and what the Quran says, by looking at one brief Bible passage vs. what the Quran says about the same thing.
Bible - Luke 1:26-27 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.
Bible - Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Bible - Luke 1:31-32 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: Bible - Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
The Quran was written 600 years later. It claims that the Quran eternally existed. It claims that the same angel Gabriel gave the Quran.
Quran 2:97 Say, "Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel – it is [none but] he who has brought the Qur'an down upon your heart, [O Muhammad], by permission of Allah, confirming that which was before it and as guidance and good tidings for the believers."
So what did their angel Gabriel say about Jesus?
Quran 9:30 The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allah"; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allah." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved [before them]. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded?
Do we all worship the same God? The Islamic "god" offers mercy and forgiveness, declared he has the right way and the truth, declared that Jesus ascended and will return as judge, declared there is a heaven and a hell. But the Islamic "god" kept changing the revelation Muhammad was given for the 22 years of his life, this revelation supposedly written in eternity past. And it is amazing that many of the revelations just happened to give Muhammad permission to indulge his latest carnal/fleshly desires.
Also, the Islamic "god" declares that the only way to be right with god is through the law of Islam -- yes only by law. And don't forget what I mentioned earlier, that their god denies Jesus is the Son of God.
With all of this, and there's more, do Christians and Muslims have the same God?
Von
Puritan Board Sophomore
Pro 28:9 If one turns away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer is an abomination.
I do not think that we worship the same God, as Muhamed received false revelations from satan, but regarding the Jewish peoples, would they not at ;east be dealing with the father of Jesus, but know of Him, but not in a saving sense?
I agree with the truth that God ONLY has a saving relationship with those who acknowledge the Biblical Jesus, but would not the big difference between Jews and Muslims ne that at least the Jews are talking about the real God?
Von
Puritan Board Sophomore
Is an unbeliever talking about the real God when he talks about "God"? Well, that probably depends on what he means with the term "God". If this is a god of his own making (ie without Christ), then no, but if this means God as revealed in the New testament - yes, we're talking about the same God.
What is the reason/question behind your question?
Steve Curtis
Puritan Board Senior
As has already been noted, the "real God" is the Father of our Lord. If anyone (how much clearer can it be said?) denies this truth, they are not talking about the "real God," irrespective of how much you seem to wish otherwise. In fact, they rejected the "real God" when they rejected His Son.
The Jews have the God of the Old testament that they are dealing with though, which is the real One, they just are ignorant to the truth of Jesus as their Messiah!
Steve Curtis
Puritan Board Senior
They are not "dealing" with Him. They have shaken their collective fist at Him and effectively said that He is a liar to say that Jesus is His beloved Son. They are not confused or misguided; they are in active rebellion against Him and, because of the opportunities they had to know Him and acknowledge Him, which they neglected, they are all the more culpable. Yes! Pray for the conversion of Jews - and of Nigerians and Malaysians and Ecuadorians. All are justly condemned unless they place saving faith in Christ alone.
The Jews claim their God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Exod. 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
The Christians claim their God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Mark 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
The Muslims claim their God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Quran 2:136 Say, [O believers], "We have believed in Allah and what has been revealed to us and what has been revealed to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the Descendants and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."
Quran 3:84 Say, "We have believed in Allah and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him."
Their are much better arguments to answer "Do Muslims and Jews Both Worship same God as us?" than saying,
I will provide an example in my next post.
(This is not an original idea by me...)
Approaching the question posed in the title of this thread from a different perspective, the Jews and the Christians claim their God is all-knowing.
If Muslims worship the same God, then their god is also all knowing. How can we test this claim? Lets look at the Christian doctrine of the Trinity. The claim of the Muslim god in the Quran is that the Christians have gone to excess in saying God is "three".
The Quran describes this Christian "three" as,
If the Muslim god is all knowing then why does this god not even accurately know what the Christian belief of the Trinity was at the time of Muhammad?
Approaching the question posed in the title of this thread from a different perspective, the Jews and the Christians claim their God is all-knowing.
Bible - Isaiah 46:9-10 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
Bible - Hebrews 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
Bible - Hebrews 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
If Muslims worship the same God, then their god is also all knowing. How can we test this claim? Lets look at the Christian doctrine of the Trinity. The claim of the Muslim god in the Quran is that the Christians have gone to excess in saying God is "three".
Quran 4:171 O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist – it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.
Quran 5:73-75 They have certainly disbelieved who say, "Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment. So will they not repent to Allah and seek His forgiveness? And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger; [other] messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded.
The Quran describes this Christian "three" as,
Quran 5:116 And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.
If the Muslim god is all knowing then why does this god not even accurately know what the Christian belief of the Trinity was at the time of Muhammad?
Justified
Puritan Board Sophomore
If you want a thorough, thoughtful examination of the question, check out this two part interview: http://trinities.org/blog/do-christians-muslims-worship-same-god-part-1/. It is not an easy question. It's difficult even to pin down what the question means, and it brings up important questions about reference.
God though used their unbelief as part of His plan to bring we gentiles into the fold with Jesus the Messiah, and that blindness was for a purpose and was temporary basis?
Doesn't Paul mention how much greater will be once those who are natural roots get grafted back in?
The Muslims cannot be dealing with Yahweh though, as the revelations that their prophet received contradicted what the Holy Spirit inspired to us concerning salvation, trinity, and the work and person of Jesus Christ!
David,
You seems to be casting the issue, of "which God someone is affirming," as one of "insufficient data." As if: it once was possible to be a true believer, having just 39 books of the Bible (so to speak); therefore, now those who maintain just those same 39 books are in the same relative position to the truth as those living prior to the Incarnation. Their chief problem in this perspective is that they lack--for a variety of reasons--the remaining 27 books (the NT), and therefore are simply continuing with the "old" belief system.
Jesus himself explained: that wasn't then, and therefore it isn't now, the issue.
You seems to be casting the issue, of "which God someone is affirming," as one of "insufficient data." As if: it once was possible to be a true believer, having just 39 books of the Bible (so to speak); therefore, now those who maintain just those same 39 books are in the same relative position to the truth as those living prior to the Incarnation. Their chief problem in this perspective is that they lack--for a variety of reasons--the remaining 27 books (the NT), and therefore are simply continuing with the "old" belief system.
Jesus himself explained: that wasn't then, and therefore it isn't now, the issue.
Chapter (17) sūrat l-isrā (The Night Journey)
Sahih International: And say, "Praise to Allah , who has not taken a son and has had no partner in [His] dominion and has no [need of a] protector out of weakness; and glorify Him with [great] glorification."
Pickthall: And say: Praise be to Allah, Who hath not taken unto Himself a son, and Who hath no partner in the Sovereignty, nor hath He any protecting friend through dependence. And magnify Him with all magnificence.
Yusuf Ali: Say: "Praise be to Allah, who begets no son, and has no partner in (His) dominion: Nor (needs) He any to protect Him from humiliation: yea, magnify Him for His greatness and glory!"
Seems pretty clear to me that the Muhammadan God is different.
Sahih International: And say, "Praise to Allah , who has not taken a son and has had no partner in [His] dominion and has no [need of a] protector out of weakness; and glorify Him with [great] glorification."
Pickthall: And say: Praise be to Allah, Who hath not taken unto Himself a son, and Who hath no partner in the Sovereignty, nor hath He any protecting friend through dependence. And magnify Him with all magnificence.
Yusuf Ali: Say: "Praise be to Allah, who begets no son, and has no partner in (His) dominion: Nor (needs) He any to protect Him from humiliation: yea, magnify Him for His greatness and glory!"
Seems pretty clear to me that the Muhammadan God is different.
Agreed. This is where Christians need to be very clear about some key points on what the Muslim sources say, like the verse you quoted.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
Islam sources allow that Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, but absolutely deny Jesus is the Son.
Agree with you that the jews need to accept Yeshua in order to be saved...
The interesting thing is that the Koran supports that Jesus was born of a virgin, sinless, did miracles, was second greatest prophet, and even called Messiah, so why would Muhhamed rate over him?
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