Do People Who Get Saved In the Tribulation receive the Holy Spirit

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Richard2YHWH

Richard2YHWH

Puritan Board Freshman
So I heard something new from the Pastor of a new church I'm attending. I moved from Oregon back to Indiana and believe I found a good Bible believing, Bible teaching church. But what he said threw me through a loop. He said that those who are saved during the tribulation period, will not receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. This conversation developed from 2 Thessalonians 2:7. which says; "And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way." I don't believe the Holy Spirit is removed like He does. I believe His restraint on evil is removed, but not Him. For He is omnipresent. He brang up the Old Testament as well to justify his theology, but even that didn't make much since to me. I believe I have a problem with this. We only had one conversation that lasted about an hour; and he did admit he's never been challenged on this like I had done; that he will dig into it and get back to me. I have done more digging myself and think he is wrong. There is no reason to believe scripturally that someone who gets saved during the tribulation won't receive the Holy Spirit just as the church did before it was raptured outa here. Because of Jesus, every born-again believer receives the promised gift of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirits work in my opinion has never changed, and never will. If He did, then that means we have a changing God; and that definitely goes against scripture. I hope I get some good dialog here. Thank you in advance for your time in this discussion.
 
We are in the Tribulation right now. We are in the Last Days right now. There is no era in the future such as the millennium to wait for. We are already there.
 
Most people here probably do not embrace the idea of a rapture then tribulation. Are you pre-mill? I think the one restraining in Thessalonians might be a figure like Michael. Even if God, that doesn't affect His working in believers' lives.

But I honestly wouldn't spend too much time on this, as it has no real meaning to me, or application, and it's very speculative. If I were you, through the dialogue with the pastor, I wouldn't let it affect your relationship with him in a negative way. The Church really needs unity at this time.
 
Richard2YHWH said:
Do people who get saved in the tribulation receive the Holy Spirit?
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Oh Yes, they most certainly do! Indeed, the more savere their tribulation, the more abundantly are they filled with the Spirit's grace. You need only study the lives of those saints of old who suffered greatly for their faith in Christ—like the Waldensians, the Huguenots, or the Covenanters. Or just ask the sweet saints of China, North Korea, Afghanistan, or Cuba how the indwelling Holy Spirit has upheld and sustained them in the midst of all their sufferings.
 
I definitely don't believe we are in the 7 year tribulation right now. And yes, I'm pretrib. I don't believe we will be here during the 7 year tribulation; for a few reasons. The main one is where is the church from Revelation chapter 4-19? No where, because it's not there. The 7 year tribulation is called Jacobs trouble for a reason. There is no future millennial reign of Christ? I sure don't read that in my Bible. My question is that when we are saved, we receive, be (Filled) with the holy spirit (John 14:16-17; Romans 8:11; Ephesians 1:13) Do those during the 7 year tribulation also receive, be (Filled) with the Holy Spirit upon salvation? Will He be in you during the tribulation as He is in every born-again believer now (1 Corinthians 3:16)
 
And thank you Ryan for your advice, Your right, the church needs to be united more than ever. I have never been to an IFB Church before. I love the Pastors passion for the word of God, but I'm not so sure that by believing such a thing warrants me to find another church. I don't want to find myself church hoping.
 
I completely understand. I was raised the same way. Pre-trib, rapture, all that. I was almost grown up by the time I learned that the rapture and all that "Left Behind" stuff was unknown in the church before the late 19th century! None of the Reformers ever heard of it or taught it, none of the pilgrims who settled the American colonies, none of the founding fathers ever heard of it. It was first articulated in the late 1800's (after the American War Between the States) by a "theologian" named Darby, who got the idea from a teenage Charismatic girl's "vision." No one could have imagined that it would become the majority report among evangelicals in less than 100 years!

But again, no one before that time ever taught any such thing. I very strongly recommend a book for you that offers historical accounts and reasoning from the Scriptures to reiterate what the Church has taught for 1900 years before Dispensationalism ever appeared. It's called The Last Days According to Jesus by R.C. Sproul.

Also, for a quick little synopsis, you can click here for the first of a three-part look at the historic eschatology of the Church.
 
Richard2YHWH said:
I definitely don't believe we are in the 7 year tribulation right now. And yes, I'm pretrib. I don't believe we will be here during the 7 year tribulation; for a few reasons. The main one is where is the church from Revelation chapter 4-19? No where, because it's not there. The 7 year tribulation is called Jacobs trouble for a reason. There is no future millennial reign of Christ? I sure don't read that in my Bible. My question is that when we are saved, we receive, be (Filled) with the holy spirit (John 14:16-17; Romans 8:11; Ephesians 1:13) Do those during the 7 year tribulation also receive, be (Filled) with the Holy Spirit upon salvation? Will He be in you during the tribulation as He is in every born-again believer now (1 Corinthians 3:16)
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Richard, a number of things jump out in your comment. The first thing I note is the idea of "pretrib" and the 7 year tribulation come from Dispensationalism. That system is rejected by people who hold to the historic confessions. On the Puritanboard you will not find dispensationalists.

The other thing is there is a difference between being premillennial in a historic sense and being a pretrib. Premillenials can fall into the Reformed camp. Pretrib dispensationalists do not.

One thing to keep in mind is that "tribulation" does not mean "judgment." Jesus words in John 16 apply to the church throughout time, including right now:

16:33 "These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world."

Dispensationalism is a relatively new "innovation." It is not part of the historic confessions. One of the practical problems of dispensationalism is that it takes a forced view of eschatology and looks back. This view distorts the how Scripture is interpreted. Some of the results of this distortion is a low view of God's law and a discounting of God's Covenants.

My suggestion is to start with the basics: get a good grip on what it means to be confessional, before working through eschatology.
 
Christopher. I have studied this greatly and found there were were writings on pre-trib before Darby. Pre-trib didn't start with Darby I'm sorry.
https://www.Jesus-is-savior.com/Believer's Corner/Doctrines/rapture_history.htm


But thank you.

I'm sorry Victor, but I am aware of what a confessional person is. Just so happens confessional really has nothing to do with eschatology; in my opinion. Eschatology has nothing to do with my confession of of faith in Jesus Christ and what He did on the cross. Because I believe in pre-trib does not have anything to do with my salvation. Also there is nothing about pre-trib that puts the Gospel of Jesus Christ and Him crucified and raised from the dead at risk. I mean isn't that where confessions and catechisms grew from; turmoil? The gospel was at risk so the churches came out with confessions and catechisms. I believe that having the today is important because in my opinion, the gospel is at risk more than ever with this false gospel going around. But Eschatology does not threaten the Gospel. I'm not a big fan of dispensationalism, all though I do believe there are different times; hence OT/NT. But that's as far as I go. I have heard of 7 dispensations all the way up to 10. To me, all that is crazy. Any way. I do appreciate the dialog.
 
Richard2YHWH said:
Christopher. I have studied this greatly and found there were were writings on pre-trib before Darby. Pre-trib didn't start with Darby I'm sorry.


But thank you.

I'm sorry Victor, but I am aware of what a confessional person is. Just so happens confessional really has nothing to do with eschatology; in my opinion. Eschatology has nothing to do with my confession of of faith in Jesus Christ and what He did on the cross. Because I believe in pre-trib does not have anything to do with my salvation. Also there is nothing about pre-trib that puts the Gospel of Jesus Christ and Him crucified and raised from the dead at risk. I mean isn't that where confessions and catechisms grew from; turmoil? The gospel was at risk so the churches came out with confessions and catechisms. I believe that having the today is important because in my opinion, the gospel is at risk more than ever with this false gospel going around. But Eschatology does not threaten the Gospel. I'm not a big fan of dispensationalism, all though I do believe there are different times; hence OT/NT. But that's as far as I go. I have heard of 7 dispensations all the way up to 10. To me, all that is crazy. Any way. I do appreciate the dialog.
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Oy vey.
 
Richard2YHWH said:
Just so happens confessional really has nothing to do with eschatology
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Here is the problem. You state you hold to the Westminster Confession of Faith. Chapters 31 and 32 speak of eschatology in stark and basic terms.

In a nutshell, there is a Day of Judgment. At that time, those who are alive in Christ "are changed," those who are dead in Christ are raised up. There is no mention of a 7 year "second chance" after Christ gathers his people.

If your 7 year tribulation includes a second chance--that is, if your view believes that after Christ calls his people to him there is a period of time for others to come to Christ on their own, it is unconfessional.
 
MacArthur was once asked where pretrib rapture was taught in scripture (for those unaware, he believes in pretrib rapture). With a dead straight face, he said, “in the white spaces.”
 
Richard2YHWH said:
My question is that when we are saved, we receive, be (Filled) with the holy spirit (John 14:16-17; Romans 8:11; Ephesians 1:13) Do those during the 7 year tribulation also receive, be (Filled) with the Holy Spirit upon salvation? Will He be in you during the tribulation as He is in every born-again believer now (1 Corinthians 3:16)
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Yes. I know of no other way for someone to be saved but by being born again. Blessings!
 
retroGRAD3 said:
Isn't "Jesus is savior" (or rather the person who runs it) a heretic?
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Well the site at least should be avoided. The person who runs it lumps quite a few famous Christians in the "Wolves in Sheeps clothing" section. Included there is Martin Luther and rather ironically, John MacArthur. The site is also heavily KJVO, and I did have a look at the link re the "pre-trib rapture", which reads quite erroneously its conclusions into some of the writings of Christian history.
 
I am an amillennialist and I believe in a future tribulation/Antichrist (though I don't believe in a pre-trib rapture0.
 
Richard2YHWH said:
Just so happens confessional really has nothing to do with eschatology; in my opinion. Eschatology has nothing to do with my confession of of faith in Jesus Christ and what He did on the cross. Because I believe in pre-trib does not have anything to do with my salvation.
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Eschatology precedes soteriology.
 
I would stand with @Richard2YHWH in this – if he cleaves to Jesus with all his heart, born again of His Spirit, he is soundly saved. When I was first saved in 1968, I knew nothing about anything Christian, much less eschatology. I only knew Jesus, or rather, He knew me. I couple of weeks later I got a
Bible, and started learning His word. As Dispensationalism was the doctrinal milieu I was in, that was what I believed, until I came to learn about "present millennium" teaching (aka Amillennialism), which showed there were only 2 NT ages (not 3), and Revelation was pertinent to the churches in John's day – its prophecies applicable to them, as well as the churches all through the NT church age, including the very end of the last days, which it seems we are getting near to now.

So, soteriology precedes eschatology.

​

 
I absolutely agree Jerusalem Blade, that soteriology precedes eschatology. Salvation through Jesus Christ will always come first and it will never change. Weather one believes in the 7 year tribulation or not. When one is born-again in the Spirit they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit "IN" them; and it will never be taken away; unlike the Old Testament saints.
 
Jerusalem Blade said:
I would stand with @Richard2YHWH in this – if he cleaves to Jesus with all his heart, born again of His Spirit, he is soundly saved. When I was first saved in 1968, I knew nothing about anything Christian, much less eschatology. I only knew Jesus, or rather, He knew me. I couple of weeks later I got a
Bible, and started learning His word. As Dispensationalism was the doctrinal milieu I was in, that was what I believed, until I came to learn about "present millennium" teaching (aka Amillennialism), which showed there were only 2 NT ages (not 3), and Revelation was pertinent to the churches in John's day – its prophecies applicable to them, as well as the churches all through the NT church age, including the very end of the last days, which it seems we are getting near to now.

So, soteriology precedes eschatology.

​

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What Vos means by that line is that eschatology structures the biblical narrative, so eschatology (in the broad sense) structures soteriology.
 
That's exactly what I'm saying. NT saints can't. Not even in the tribulation (Mathew 24:24) If Eschatology precedes soteriology, then it's not about Jesus anymore.
 
I'm sorry Bayou, but that is completely wrong. It has been and always will be Jesus Christ that structures the Bible narrative. It's always been about Him.

​

 
Richard2YHWH, Where in the Bible do you get the idea that Old Testament saints can lose their salvation, but New Testament saints can't?
 
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