Do You Know of Any Calvinistic Methodists?

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B.L.

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Greetings Friends,

I met a man a few weeks ago who recently left the United Methodist Church after serving as a pastor for 30+ years and moved to my area to plant a church under some new traditional Wesleyan group. Though the man and I have significant differences between the two of us I've enjoyed the interactions I've had with him and his missionary zeal has made a favorable impression on me. I've found myself praying for the man quite regularly as of late.

My interaction with this gentlemen made me realize He's the first Methodist I've met (knowingly), which is quite surprising considering we've got Methodist Churches sprinkled all over rural Virginia.

At any rate...the encounter made me wonder whether anyone has ever met any Calvinistic Methodists? I read somewhere there used to be quite a few in Wales.

Did anyone here come out of a Methodist background?
 
Historically, the most famous is perhaps George Whitefield. Another major figure, from Wales, would be Daniel Rowland. Among modern Methodists, I have heard from a reliable source that Timothy Tennent, president of Asbury Theological Seminary, is a Calvinist.
 
Greetings Friends,

I met a man a few weeks ago who recently left the United Methodist Church after serving as a pastor for 30+ years and moved to my area to plant a church under some new traditional Wesleyan group. Though the man and I have significant differences between the two of us I've enjoyed the interactions I've had with him and his missionary zeal has made a favorable impression on me. I've found myself praying for the man quite regularly as of late.

My interaction with this gentlemen made me realize He's the first Methodist I've met (knowingly), which is quite surprising considering we've got Methodist Churches sprinkled all over rural Virginia.

At any rate...the encounter made me wonder whether anyone has ever met any Calvinistic Methodists? I read somewhere there used to be quite a few in Wales.

Did anyone here come out of a Methodist background?
Their founder was one of the church chief Arminians, so calvinist theology would be hard to find.
 
Greetings Friends,

I met a man a few weeks ago who recently left the United Methodist Church after serving as a pastor for 30+ years and moved to my area to plant a church under some new traditional Wesleyan group. Though the man and I have significant differences between the two of us I've enjoyed the interactions I've had with him and his missionary zeal has made a favorable impression on me. I've found myself praying for the man quite regularly as of late.

My interaction with this gentlemen made me realize He's the first Methodist I've met (knowingly), which is quite surprising considering we've got Methodist Churches sprinkled all over rural Virginia.

At any rate...the encounter made me wonder whether anyone has ever met any Calvinistic Methodists? I read somewhere there used to be quite a few in Wales.

Did anyone here come out of a Methodist background?
The Welsh Methodists were Calvinistic and Presbyterian. The UMC here in the US is most definitely not.

Welsh Methodism has been liberal for a long while.
 
The only Calvinistic Methodists you'll meet today are folks that are about to become Presbyterians.

You made me chuckle with this Tyler!

This may very well be a poor question due to my ignorance, but do Methodists have a view of covenant theology that is similar to the Presbyterian view? Aside from the Calvinism/Arminian divide, how would you sum up the major differences between Methodism and Presbyterianism?
 
This may very well be a poor question due to my ignorance, but do Methodists have a view of covenant theology that is similar to the Presbyterian view? Aside from the Calvinism/Arminian divide, how would you sum up the major differences between Methodism and Presbyterianism?
The Calvinistic Methodists in Wales were covenantal in their theology. They were essentially Welsh Puritans.
 
Calvinistic Methodists? I read somewhere there used to be quite a few in Wales.
from Wales, would be Daniel Rowland.
In Wales Daniel Rowland and the hymn writer William Williams. Martyn Lloyd-Jones was the famous modern Calvinistic Methodist. He was deeply influenced by Williams and Rowland.

Banner of Truth published "The Calvinistic Methodist Fathers of Wales" in 2008 (2 vols). This is an extensive study of them. The biography "Bread of Heaven: The Life and Work of William Williams" is an excellent work. Among other things it shows that the Calvinistic Methodists in Wales were fully Covenantal in their theology.
 
Martyn Lloyd-Jones was the famous modern Calvinistic Methodist. He was deeply influenced by Williams and Rowland.

Frankly, the only reason I even know the name Rowland is because of the recently released documentary of Lloyd-Jones, Logic on Fire.
 
Dr. John McKnight of Darlington, MD served at an Evangelical Methodist church for some time, and he is certainly Calvinistic; however, that church has changed its name to Reformation Bible Church and withdrawn from the Evangelical Methodist denomination.

The website for the church states that they are in line with Whitefield and Spurgeon.
 
Frankly, the only reason I even know the name Rowland is because of the recently released documentary of Lloyd-Jones, Logic on Fire.
Yes I loved that documentary. It was because of this documentary I purchased Banner of Truth's Calvinistic Methodist Fathers of Wales.

If you have read Iain Murray's majestic 2 volume biography of Lloyd-Jones he mentions MLJ debt to the Calvinistic Methodist fathers in that work.
 
This may very well be a poor question due to my ignorance, but do Methodists have a view of covenant theology that is similar to the Presbyterian view? Aside from the Calvinism/Arminian divide, how would you sum up the major differences between Methodism and Presbyterianism?
Methodists came out of the Church of England, their main issue with it was a lack of zeal for the gospel.

Unlike Presbyterians, they have no issue with Anglican polity, and so would have an Episcopal church structure, bishops and all. Though their structure is slightly different, due to their focus on lay preachers.

John Wesley, the founder of Methodism, (though I do not believe he wished to start a new denomination) was also a proponent of perfectionism, that is the idea that it was possible to become completely free from sin in this life. This idea went on to be part of Church of the Nazarene and Pentecostal doctrine. It also taught by current Methodist churches.

From my own experience, Methodist churches are very similar to Anglican churches here in the UK, there is a wide spectrum of beliefs, many would be slightly liberal, many would have contempary worship, some with more solid views, some with more traditional worship. They often tend to the strange practice of having a "traditional" service and a "contempary" service. I have seen Anglican churches with 5 different services, all different styles.

UK Methodists don't have a confession per say, this was the closest explanation I could drag up:
The Methodist Church claims and cherishes its place in the Holy Catholic Church which is the Body of Christ. It rejoices in the inheritance of the apostolic faith and loyally accepts the fundamental principles of the historic creeds and of the Protestant Reformation. It ever remembers that in the providence of God Methodism was raised up to spread scriptural holiness through the land by the proclamation of the evangelical faith and declares its unfaltering resolve to be true to its divinely appointed mission.

The doctrines of the evangelical faith which Methodism has held from the beginning and still holds are based upon the divine revelation recorded in the Holy Scriptures. The Methodist Church acknowledges this revelation as the supreme rule of faith and practice. These evangelical doctrines to which the preachers of the Methodist Church are pledged are contained in Wesley's Notes on the New Testament and the first four volumes of his sermons.

The Notes on the New Testament and the 44 Sermons are not intended to impose a system of formal or speculative theology on Methodist preachers, but to set up standards of preaching and belief which should secure loyalty to the fundamental truths of the gospel of redemption and ensure the continued witness of the Church to the realities of the Christian experience of salvation.
It seems they also have a catechism, and a Conference every year which issues reports. I also found something called a Covenant Service along with the Covenant Prayer.

In America the UMC lists its foundational documents here.
You might also be interested in their views on Baptism, as they seem to point to covenants at least for justifying the baptism of infants.

As far as I can tell, Methodists, while using the language of covenant when talking about the baptism of infants, do not seem to have a particularly developed view of covenant theology. It seems when talking about "covenant", less of the focus is on the history of the Biblical covenants, and more on the covenant we have with God today. Ordo Salutis more than Historia Salutis if we could put it another way. It seems that would fit with their Arminian soteriology, God has established the covenant of grace with all men, and baptism is the sign and seal of that, but our faith along with our submission to baptism is the way in which we accept the covenant of grace and claim the blessings of it.

To use a quote I took from Richard Watson, a Methodist theologian, via Wikipedia:
But as the entrance into the Jewish Church was by circumcision, so the entrance into the Christian Church is by baptism. Hence its administration is here prescribed to those who are made disciples, and as such disposed to become formally the members of Christ's Church. Hence it derives its federal or covenant character, and is rightly considered as a mystery or sacrament. Of the blessings of this covenant it is the SIGN, holding forth the washing away of sin, and the pouring out of the Holy Ghost; and it is the SEAL, inasmuch as, being administered under the command of Christ, it is a constant PLEDGE of his unchangeably gracious intentions to those that believe and are baptized; while our submission to this rite is that act by which we accept and make ourselves parties to this covenant of grace and salvation, claiming its blessing, and binding ourselves to fulfil its conditions.

So the focus is not only on God's gracious actions, but also on our actions in being part of this covenant. This fits with the practical bent of Methodism, which sees zeal and dedication to God as very important. The Covenant Prayer is seen as us renewing our covenant with God at the start of each year, which I believe they would see baptism as the sign of. Here is an example of the way covenant would be spoken about in a methodist context, with some connection and application drawn to baptism.
 
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Most people that start out methodists, if they become calvinist, will move to the Presbyterian Church. I was raised methodist, I personally know of several people from that congregation that became Calvinist, everyone of us left the denomination. Most of them go straight to the Presbyterian Church, I took a detour and became a reformed Baptist before becoming Presbyterian. All reformed roads lead to Presbyterian.
 
The earliest form of Methodism was the Holy Club at Oxford and it was more of a society to promote Christian holiness. It was there Whitefield united with Wesley.

It wasn't until the Church of England couldn't/wouldn't supply ample clergy to the colonies due to Wesley and Whitefield's evangelistic and church planting efforts that Methodism became what we consider to be a denomination.

Thus, in the early days, one could be a Calvinist, and be a member of this evangelistic movement that promoted Christian holiness, piety, and purity.
 
What was very helpful for me was to read the two volume biography of George Whitefield by Dallimore over 25 years ago. Dallimore argues that Whitefield was regarded as the leader and founder of Methodism . . . he was the first to use that terminology of himself, and his followers were first called "Methodists." Whitefield was the first to engage in itinerate, open-air preaching. He was followed in this practice by the Wesleys. The first Methodists associated with Whitefield were John Cennick, Joseph Humphreys, John Powell, William Williams, Daniel Rowland and Howell Harris.
 
In the deep south, methodist pietism held on much later, so much so that civic leaders had to keep voting to keep their locales "dry" at least into the 1980s. Calvinism was not evident at all, perhaps a result of a less-educated circuit-riding clergy that existed in rural areas as late as my parents' generation? It also appeared that the denomination's re-assignment of clergy eventually created a uniform liberalism that was not likely to be a hot-bed of Cavinism.
 
In the deep south, methodist pietism held on much later, so much so that civic leaders had to keep voting to keep their locales "dry" at least into the 1980s. Calvinism was not evident at all, perhaps a result of a less-educated circuit-riding clergy that existed in rural areas as late as my parents' generation? It also appeared that the denomination's re-assignment of clergy eventually created a uniform liberalism that was not likely to be a hot-bed of Cavinism.
Interestingly, a lot of moderate Methodist laity are leaving UMC churches over the homosexual question and joining the EPC. From conversations I've had with them, they see little difference between the UMC they grew up with and the EPC of today.
 
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