Does Independent Government tend toward "Parachurch Presbytery"?

[Semper Fidelis]

Does Independent Government tend toward \"Parachurch Presbytery\"?

A provocative title I hope. There was a great discussion between Bruch, Ivan and Trevor here:
http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=18661&page=2

One of the discussion centered around the weaknesses of an independent Church government form. Something happened today that got me thinking about it...

As many of you know, I attend an SBC congregation out here in Okinawa. We're between Pastors right now so leaders decided to allow an organizer for the Franklin Graham Festival (will occur in November) to fill the pulpit until the new Pastor arrives from Southwestern Baptist Seminary in September.

I've shared with you some of the issues regarding the methods and message of folks in the Billy and Franklin Graham organization. In this this thread, we discussed some of the theological problems with the organization at large.

Well today's "sermon" focused on John 17 and Christ's prayer that Christian unity would testify to the fact that the Father sent the Son. He then used that as an opportunity to demonstrate how disconnected all the Christian Churches were on Okinawa. People don't even know that there are Christian Churches in the "neighborhood". As an organizer for the Franklin Graham festival, they have organizers in each of those Churches. Their goal is to bring all the Churches to work toward a common aim.

Actually, his comment was as true as far as it went: All these independent Churches have no "connection" to one another whatsoever. How is Christ's prayer in John 17 answered by such Independence? We'll come back to that...

He went on to mention that he was meeting with the Mayor of Chatan this past week. Chatan is the town I live in and it has a huge baseball stadium that I run by on the weekends. Japanese professionals play in it. They were explaining to the Mayor that they wanted to have a Christian festival. The conversation went something like this (Graham organizer's name is Bill):
Mayor: Is this for Baptists?
Bill: No, these are all the Christian Churches on Okinawa.
Mayor: All Christians? Even Catholics?
Bill: Yes, even Catholics.

With pride, the organizer recounted how the Mayor was impressed that all Christians would be coming together and that he did not want to stand in the way of an event for all the Okinawan Christians (Christianity is about 1% of the 1.3 million population, half of which are U.S. military).

The sermon went on to laud how everybody, including Catholics, were participating and that such showed the unity described in John 17. This received a few "Amens" from the rear of the Church. I was fuming.

After the service, I took the preacher aside and gently but firmly told him that the Roman Catholic Church is NOT a Christian Church and that darkness has no unity with light. He expressed that he didn't intend to confuse the ignorant in the congregation. I told him that it is one thing for a parachurch organization to "share the stage" with Roman Catholics but in the preaching of the Word, the Truth needs to be heralded without confusion.

Anyway, this afterward led to an epiphany: Independent Churches depend on such Parachurch organizations for unity outside their independent circles. I think the unity they desire is "natural" and that John 17 is not a call for an "invisible" unity that the world cannot see. I see this as an inherent weakness of Independent Church government.

It is also dangerous because the types of unity that they form in the place of a Presbytery or General Assembly has no accountability whatsoever. Nothing authenticates "Truth" in the "unity" relationships that people make across Church lines. Some relationships are authentic but, more often than not, many are not very thoughtful as individuals form Bible studies with an eclectic mix of every stripe of theology, including some that are not Christian.

Also, because they rely on Parachurch organizations like the Graham organization, they end up imitating the lack of doctrinal discretion. "If it's OK for Graham to partner with Roman Catholics then why shouldn't my unity with them be a working out of John 17 as well?" Maybe if the Roman Catholic Church is a shorter drive they should just start attending that Church since they already have "unity" after all....

Do you sense where I'm coming from here? I'm not expecting this to be an epiphany for Independent minded Baptists. I am a Presbyterian because I'm already convinced that the Scriptures call for accountability and real unity beyond the borders of the individual Church.

I think the proliferation of parachurch organizations can be traced, in no small measure, to the atomization of Christianity that is at odds with the desire within a Christian to have more than invisible unity with Christians elsewhere. Since independent Churches don't really provide that "real" unity, they are led into dangerous alternatives.

[Edited on 5-21-2006 by SemperFideles]

 

[Ivan]

I hear you Rich and I totally agree with you....to a degree. I think Southern Baptists are a totally different animal. Although I know some SB churches that have participated in Billy Graham crusades, I know as many who have not. In my ministry I have not ever participated with any para-church groups. I have cooperated with other SB churches and some other Baptist churches. That's the problem with trying to pigeon-holed SB churches...they're not all alike and they don't all do the same thing, which, I know, isn't always a good thing.

In the situation you described I would have felt the same way you did. I will not participate in an church event that includes the RC. You did the right thing. I thank God you are there at that Baptist church. Keep standing in the gap for the Lord, brother.

 

[Puritan Sailor]

Some very thought provoking insights Rich.

 

[Pilgrim]

Originally posted by Ivan
I hear you Rich and I totally agree with you....to a degree. I think Southern Baptists are a totally different animal. Although I know some SB churches that have participated in Billy Graham crusades, I know as many who have not. In my ministry I have not ever participated with any para-church groups. I have cooperated with other SB churches and some other Baptist churches. That's the problem with trying to pigeon-holed SB churches...they're not all alike and they don't all do the same thing, which, I know, isn't always a good thing.

In the situation you described I would have felt the same way you did. I will not participate in an church event that includes the RC. You did the right thing. I thank God you are there at that Baptist church. Keep standing in the gap for the Lord, brother.

SBC in the North is, I imagine, a bit different and perhaps even more doctrinally sound on average than ones in the South where people often attend out of habit, etc. I'm guessing that you would be hard pressed to find many who would not cooperate with a Graham crusade in my neck of the woods. Even if they disagree with one aspect of another of the BGEA's approach, they wouldn't want to appear divisive, etc. Criticizing Graham in many quarters is tantamount to criticizing mom, the flag or apple pie.

[Edited on 5-21-2006 by Pilgrim]

 

[Pilgrim]

Rich, is there no English speaking Reformed work on Okinawa? I think I've seen something about a PCA work there, but I could have been looking at some old information. I know that the OPC has fraternal relations with the Reformed Church in Japan, but I guess their services are probably in Japanese.

The RPCNA has some churches in Japan, but mostly around Kobe, I think.

 

[Pilgrim]

Rich, what you related makes me want to But it should not be surprising since this has been the approach of the Graham organization since at least the 1960's, if not before.

However, I don't think that independency necessarily leads to involvement in parachurch ministries like Graham, Campus Crusade or whatever. As you note, it certainly does result in a lack of accountability, which can lead to a whole host of ills, which eventually can lead to what you described. But it can also go in a totally different direction, leading to cult-like tendencies (i.e. we're the only true church), or informal fellowships dominated by one or two strong personalities or by one or two pet doctrines, be it KJV Only, "sovereign grace" or fill in the blank.

[Edited on 5-21-2006 by Pilgrim]

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Originally posted by Pilgrim
Rich, what you related makes me want to But it should not be surprising since this has been the approach of the Graham organization since at least the 1960's, if not before.

However, I don't think that independency necessarily leads to involvement in parachurch ministries like Graham, Campus Crusade or whatever. As you note, it certainly does result in a lack of accountability, which can lead to a whole host of ills, which eventually can lead to what you described. But it can also go in a totally different direction, leading to cult-like tendencies (i.e. we're the only true church), or informal fellowships dominated by one or two strong personalities or by one or two pet doctrines, be it KJV Only, "sovereign grace" or fill in the blank.

True that the pendulum can swing in either direction. I should note, also, that Presbyterian Churches are in no way immune to the parachurch phenomena. I think pragmatism and egalitarianism have always been strong forces among American Evangelicals.

I know SBC Churches are a different breed but, let's face it, they are the largest independent denomination without even a close peer. I'm alarmed, at times, at the "democratic" nature of Church life. I think this independent spirit lends itself to feel there is no need for accountability, hence there is greater danger in the abandon in which alliances are sought.

There is no Reformed plant yet, just some folks meeting together in homes. Sunday is for worship and worship is in a Church, however imperfect. That's my conviction. Frankly, I have too much invested in my fellow Christians here to abandon them at this point for "something better." The season of my leaving will come in a couple of years with orders. I post not to seem like I'm some grumpy guy with hate in my heart to the SBC people I worship with. I'm just talking these things out because they alarm and concern me.

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

Originally posted by Pilgrim
Rich, is there no English speaking Reformed work on Okinawa? I think I've seen something about a PCA work there, but I could have been looking at some old information. I know that the OPC has fraternal relations with the Reformed Church in Japan, but I guess their services are probably in Japanese.

The RPCNA has some churches in Japan, but mostly around Kobe, I think.

The RPCNA Japan Presbytery has a homepage here and their congregations are listed here.

 

[Puritan Sailor]

Originally posted by Pilgrim

However, I don't think that independency necessarily leads to involvement in parachurch ministries like Graham, Campus Crusade or whatever. As you note, it certainly does result in a lack of accountability, which can lead to a whole host of ills, which eventually can lead to what you described. But it can also go in a totally different direction, leading to cult-like tendencies (i.e. we're the only true church), or informal fellowships dominated by one or two strong personalities or by one or two pet doctrines, be it KJV Only, "sovereign grace" or fill in the blank.

I find it interesting that congregational churches usually end up forming "associations." It happened with many baptists and New England Congregationalists. To me it's proof that they intrinsically understand that the church is bigger than the local church institutionally. They may not go as far as Presbyterians regarding the authority of these associations, but still it shows that something must fill the vacuum of broader unity. A purely independent church will eventually have to fill the void somehow.

 

[Pilgrim]

Originally posted by puritansailor

Originally posted by Pilgrim

However, I don't think that independency necessarily leads to involvement in parachurch ministries like Graham, Campus Crusade or whatever. As you note, it certainly does result in a lack of accountability, which can lead to a whole host of ills, which eventually can lead to what you described. But it can also go in a totally different direction, leading to cult-like tendencies (i.e. we're the only true church), or informal fellowships dominated by one or two strong personalities or by one or two pet doctrines, be it KJV Only, "sovereign grace" or fill in the blank.

I find it interesting that congregational churches usually end up forming "associations." It happened with many baptists and New England Congregationalists. To me it's proof that they intrinsically understand that the church is bigger than the local church institutionally. They may not go as far as Presbyterians regarding the authority of these associations, but still it shows that something must fill the vacuum of broader unity. A purely independent church will eventually have to fill the void somehow.

Sort of how many baptistic churches have baby "dedications"?

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot

Originally posted by Pilgrim
Rich, is there no English speaking Reformed work on Okinawa? I think I've seen something about a PCA work there, but I could have been looking at some old information. I know that the OPC has fraternal relations with the Reformed Church in Japan, but I guess their services are probably in Japanese.

The RPCNA has some churches in Japan, but mostly around Kobe, I think.

The RPCNA Japan Presbytery has a homepage here and their congregations are listed here.

Thanks but they only sing Psalms a capella in Japanese.

Seriously, those are on mainland about a 3 hour plane ride away.

Blessings,

Rich

 

[Scott]

Rich: I think you are on to something. In his book Deconstructing Evangelicalism, D.G. Hart noted that the glue that hold the various evangelical churches together are evangelical celebrities like Billy Graham and others. One historian of American relgion (Mark Noll I believe) even suggested that a quick shorthand to determine whether an individual is an evangelical is by their answer to the question, "What do you think of Billy Graham?"

I don't think that this phenomenon is limited to independent churches, though. I would say that the common thread is evangelicalism itself, whether in independent, presbyterian, or otherwise. There are plenty of presbyterian churches that participate in Billy Graham crusades and are otherwise immersed in evangelical culture.

BTW, here is a quick review of the Hart book. The review was written by someone else. I bolded parts that may interest you.

"[E]vangelicalism as a religious identity is at best vague and at worst hollow" (p. 188). This is the conclusion of D. G. Hart's analysis of the branch of conservative Protestantism which goes by the name "evangelical." He advocates abandoning the term altogether. Coined in the 1940s, "evangelicalism" was used to describe a mediating position between separatistic Fundamentalism and mainline Protestantism. A group of conservative Protestants hoped to offer "an improvement on both liberalism and fundamentalism... [by] combin[ing] the best of both, the social involvement and activism of the former with the theology and evangelistic zeal of the latter" (p. 25).
As the heirs of German pietism and American revivalism, evangelicals "looked more to the experience and actions of the individual believer for evidence of authentic faith than to the forms and order of the institutional church and her clergy. In fact, one of pietism's legacies... was to regard ecclesial expressions of Protestantism as synonymous with nominal Christianity" (p. 117). Unlike historic Protestants, evangelicals have always been suspicious of identifying themselves primarily through their church association, resulting in a stunted (and sometimes, nonexistent) ecclesiology. Individual experience, not church life and dogma, are at the heart of evangelicalism. Therefore, evangelicalism has difficulty in forming communities of theological depth and substance who have a great sense of connectedness with a historic past. Instead, evangelicalism usually unites people by reducing unity to the lowest common denominator through the complete rejection of historic tradition.

In short, evangelicalism attempts to be the conservative Protestant movement, standing up for historic orthodoxy, while at the same time diminishing the importance of historic orthodoxy, trading it for doctrinal fads and evangelical celebrities. Evangelicalism's greatest strength is its organizational might. It creates broad coalitions. Yet, the very attempt to unite people outside the context of shared church polity, practices, and historic creeds has done the very opposite of what was intended by undermining doctrinal faithfulness and ecclesiastical identity. In the end, evangelical attempts to preserve "historic orthodoxy" fail to resemble what earlier generations understood orthodoxy to be.

Though evangelicalism finds its origin in revivalism and pietism (both of which were hostile to tradition), evangelicalism has now become its own tradition that has one common thread that holds it together -- the utter denial of the authority of traditions (pp. 82, 120). Because tradition is devalued, Christian celebrities (usually entrepreneurial innovators) are celebrated, becoming the glue that holds the movement together. Indeed, one could argue that evangelicalism centers more on the likes of Billy Graham (or even James Dobson or Tim LaHaye) than it does on any doctrinal core that resembles the richness of historic orthodox tradition. Evangelicalism as lowest-common-denominator, "old-time religion" has "severed most ties to the ways and beliefs of Christians living in previous eras" (p. 19).

The intellectual shallowness of evangelicalism is demonstrated in its faddishness. In order "for an evangelical mind to exist it needs to drink from Roman Catholic, Reformed, Lutheran, Anglican, or Eastern Orthodox streams" (p. 186). As a movement mobilizing masses of people, evangelicalism has been a success. "But as a shaper of a tradition, evangelicalism has been an utter failure. Its breadth has come with the price of shallowness, while its mass appeal has generated slogans more than careful reflection" (p. 187). One does not have to concur with Hart's conclusion to abandon the label "evangelical" in order to benefit from his provocative and insightful analysis of evangelicalism. Indeed, it is evangelicals who need to listen most carefully to his criticisms in order to broaden and deepen the tradition!

 

[DTK]

Instead, evangelicalism usually unites people by reducing unity to the lowest common denominator through the complete rejection of historic tradition.

I think we need to be honest and admit that this isn't simply something that is characteristic of Evangelicalism in general. We are witnessing the same Reduction on the part of the Reformed community in particular. Our tendency is to claim that those who do so are simply not "Reformed." But the fact is, regardless of whether such folk are "Reformed" in their thinking, they are in the midst of Reformed churches; and make no mistake, they too have an agenda.

DTK

 

[Scott]

I think we need to be honest and admit that this isn't simply something that is characteristic of Evangelicalism in general. We are witnessing the same Reduction on the part of the Reformed community in particular.

Yeah, Hart places the American reformed community largely (including PCA and OPC) in the "evangelical" category and his book laments this.

 

[beej6]

Hart certainly is concerned that the PCA is less confessionally and traditionally Reformed than evangelical (see his recent article in New Horizons).

And his premise, which I agree with, is that the word "evangelical" has lost its meaning and is essentially useless now except as defined as a "non-Catholic, Christian" church = the popular meaning.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Originally posted by DTK

Instead, evangelicalism usually unites people by reducing unity to the lowest common denominator through the complete rejection of historic tradition.

I think we need to be honest and admit that this isn't simply something that is characteristic of Evangelicalism in general. We are witnessing the same Reduction on the part of the Reformed community in particular. Our tendency is to claim that those who do so are simply not "Reformed." But the fact is, regardless of whether such folk are "Reformed" in their thinking, they are in the midst of Reformed churches; and make no mistake, they too have an agenda.

DTK

David,

I completely agree and qualified as such in a later post.

I was a bit naive when I decided to "...go Reformed..." about 9 years ago after listening to R.C. Sproul for some time. I remember being in a new member's class and listening to the Pastor explain the strength of Presbyterian government - how it keeps individuals and Churches accountable. I was also impressed later by an Eldership that provided oversight and Elder care - they knew their sheep and their sheep knew them.

I've noticed how far from our confessed model we Presbyterians often stray. People come and go from one Presbyterian or Reformed Church with relative ease. When I joined a new Church on the East Coast, my West Coast Church kept telling me months later that the Church had still not sent a letter requesting transfer of my membership. Further, I've seen Church members allowed to leave a Church with unresolved sin and join to other Congregations. I had hoped that NAPARC elders would be more circumspect as to who they let leave and join Churches. I've also attended PCA congregations where it took me over a year to remember the Elders' names as they were so scarce and never visited my home in 3 years. Within PCA Churches I've attended I've witnessed significant doctrinal ignorance and it is clear that many could just as well be attending Calvary Chapel as the PCA Church from the things they believed. Some were allowed to teach young people in Sunday School simply because they volunteered.

Bottom line is that I know the Presbyterians' house is not in order. The way I look at it, however, is that we are failing at being Presbyterian and what is our tradition when such things happen. I just wish we had more faith that ordinary means would be effective. As it is, we neglect them and the Biblical ignorance and lives of the congregation suffer as a result.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Sadly not uncommon experiences Rich.

Originally posted by SemperFideles

Originally posted by DTK

Instead, evangelicalism usually unites people by reducing unity to the lowest common denominator through the complete rejection of historic tradition.

I think we need to be honest and admit that this isn't simply something that is characteristic of Evangelicalism in general. We are witnessing the same Reduction on the part of the Reformed community in particular. Our tendency is to claim that those who do so are simply not "Reformed." But the fact is, regardless of whether such folk are "Reformed" in their thinking, they are in the midst of Reformed churches; and make no mistake, they too have an agenda.

DTK

David,

I completely agree and qualified as such in a later post.

I was a bit naive when I decided to "...go Reformed..." about 9 years ago after listening to R.C. Sproul for some time. I remember being in a new member's class and listening to the Pastor explain the strength of Presbyterian government - how it keeps individuals and Churches accountable. I was also impressed later by an Eldership that provided oversight and Elder care - they knew their sheep and their sheep knew them.

I've noticed how far from our confessed model we Presbyterians often stray. People come and go from one Presbyterian or Reformed Church with relative ease. When I joined a new Church on the East Coast, my West Coast Church kept telling me months later that the Church had still not sent a letter requesting transfer of my membership. Further, I've seen Church members allowed to leave a Church with unresolved sin and join to other Congregations. I had hoped that NAPARC elders would be more circumspect as to who they let leave and join Churches. I've also attended PCA congregations where it took me over a year to remember the Elders' names as they were so scarce and never visited my home in 3 years. Within PCA Churches I've attended I've witnessed significant doctrinal ignorance and it is clear that many could just as well be attending Calvary Chapel as the PCA Church from the things they believed. Some were allowed to teach young people in Sunday School simply because they volunteered.

Bottom line is that I know the Presbyterians' house is not in order. The way I look at it, however, is that we are failing at being Presbyterian and what is our tradition when such things happen. I just wish we had more faith that ordinary means would be effective. As it is, we neglect them and the Biblical ignorance and lives of the congregation suffer as a result.

 

[Scott]

Bottom line is that I know the Presbyterians' house is not in order. The way I look at it, however, is that we are failing at being Presbyterian and what is our tradition when such things happen. I just wish we had more faith that ordinary means would be effective. As it is, we neglect them and the Biblical ignorance and lives of the congregation suffer as a result.

As usual, I think you are right on the money. Hart makes the points in his books.