Sorry I'm pressed for time Pergie and don't have time to read (but merely skim) what has been written heretofore.
I think to ask for the amount of time is to ask a question that depends. When Nicodemus asked Christ about being born again Christ noted that the Holy Spirit is like the wind. As much as we would like to be able to nail such things down I think it is not possible to do so. It is sufficient to say that when a man receives the Gospel with joy that it is because he has born from above to see and believe.
I believe, though, that regeneration and conversion could occur in a moment in time (one is only a logical priority of the other). As the Word is preached, a man might be born from above and believe during the actual preaching.
Incidentally, I think you might misunderstand what I (or others) might be saying with respect to regenerate infants. I'll be honest with you - I care about regeneration but in the way I care about the wind if I'm sailing. It's critically important to the Church but you can't see it. Even the regenerate act in ways that make us believe they are unregenerate and vice versa. The mongergistic work of God in regeneration and conversion must be guarded lest we ever think that salvation is of us but, within the practice of the Church, it can become dangerous to act on the basis of too much confidence with respect to who we think are regenerate.
The bottom line is that those in the Church who are not under discipline and have been put out of the Church are to be discipled and cared for by the Church. That means that you labor diligently for *all* and not those that you're sure are regenerate.
My children, therefore, are treated like Christians because they are members of the Church in the same way as the adult is. I don't disciple the adult because I *know* he is regenerate or stop discipling him because I *know* he is unregenerate. I disciple him because he is a member of the Church. The goal is the same for both the child and the adult: preaching the Word to them to their conversion and/or sanctification because you never know the exact nature of the saint you are working with.
Thus, witholding the means of Grace from either a child or adult in the Church on the basis of our suspicions is never warranted and undermines the whole effort of discipleship. This means for me that, though the discussion of how long after regeneration conversion might come is interesting but quite immaterial to my responsibilities. I don't know when it happens but I know its fruit.
When people ask for my testimony, I have to honestly say that I don't know the date of my conversion. I used to be a charismatic and thought I knew when I had been baptized in the Holy Spirit but that was in a Roman Catholic Church and I'm not at all certain I even knew a fraction of the Gospel then. All I know is that I once trusted in my self and I know cling to the Cross. It is enough for me to know that was of God and not of myself and, frankly, I don't care the exact date it happened but am grateful to God that it did.
I think to ask for the amount of time is to ask a question that depends. When Nicodemus asked Christ about being born again Christ noted that the Holy Spirit is like the wind. As much as we would like to be able to nail such things down I think it is not possible to do so. It is sufficient to say that when a man receives the Gospel with joy that it is because he has born from above to see and believe.
I believe, though, that regeneration and conversion could occur in a moment in time (one is only a logical priority of the other). As the Word is preached, a man might be born from above and believe during the actual preaching.
Incidentally, I think you might misunderstand what I (or others) might be saying with respect to regenerate infants. I'll be honest with you - I care about regeneration but in the way I care about the wind if I'm sailing. It's critically important to the Church but you can't see it. Even the regenerate act in ways that make us believe they are unregenerate and vice versa. The mongergistic work of God in regeneration and conversion must be guarded lest we ever think that salvation is of us but, within the practice of the Church, it can become dangerous to act on the basis of too much confidence with respect to who we think are regenerate.
The bottom line is that those in the Church who are not under discipline and have been put out of the Church are to be discipled and cared for by the Church. That means that you labor diligently for *all* and not those that you're sure are regenerate.
My children, therefore, are treated like Christians because they are members of the Church in the same way as the adult is. I don't disciple the adult because I *know* he is regenerate or stop discipling him because I *know* he is unregenerate. I disciple him because he is a member of the Church. The goal is the same for both the child and the adult: preaching the Word to them to their conversion and/or sanctification because you never know the exact nature of the saint you are working with.
Thus, witholding the means of Grace from either a child or adult in the Church on the basis of our suspicions is never warranted and undermines the whole effort of discipleship. This means for me that, though the discussion of how long after regeneration conversion might come is interesting but quite immaterial to my responsibilities. I don't know when it happens but I know its fruit.
When people ask for my testimony, I have to honestly say that I don't know the date of my conversion. I used to be a charismatic and thought I knew when I had been baptized in the Holy Spirit but that was in a Roman Catholic Church and I'm not at all certain I even knew a fraction of the Gospel then. All I know is that I once trusted in my self and I know cling to the Cross. It is enough for me to know that was of God and not of myself and, frankly, I don't care the exact date it happened but am grateful to God that it did.