Dr.White asked...

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JM

Puritan Board Doctor
...during a written debate with Dave Hunt:

Is the atonement substitutionary?

Did Jesus take the penalty of sin for every person who has ever lived, is living, and ever will live?

If so, what was God's intention in laying the sin of every person on Christ?

Was it His purpose to make men savable, or to actually atone for their sins?

And if those sins have been borne by Christ and the punishment due them laid upon Him, upon what basis will those same sins be punished in those who reject Him?

Did Jesus, as the faithful High Priest, intercede for those who will never be saved?

And if so, what is the nature of this failed intercession?

And is it not true that Mr. Hunt and those who follow his views limit the atonement's effect and power, while Reformed theologians limit its scoope and intention?

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I posted them on the net and here's the reponse:

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Is the atonement substitutionary? This question assumes a common understanding of the term “atonement.” In English, the word simply means “a making at one” and theologically refers to the process of bring someone estranged from God into unity with God. Using this understanding of the term, then Christ’s death on the cross did not being anyone into unity with God, but instead enabled God to bring those of His choosing into unity with Himself. When God spiritually places someone “in Christ” they are united with Christ, and they are justified, made holy and blameless in Christ. Thus if we use the term correctly, then atonement refers to God placing us spiritually in Christ.

Did Jesus take the penalty of sin for every person who has ever lived, is living, and ever will live?
No, Jesus took away the penalty of sin for anyone spiritually placed “in Him.” We are not made holy or blameless until we are “in Christ.”

If so, what was God's intention in laying the sin of every person on Christ?
Since Jesus did not take the penalty of sin for every person who ever lived, the question is moot. God’s intention in accepting the sacrifice of Jesus as the propitiation for the whole world was to reconcile mankind to Himself through Jesus Christ. Thus anyone spiritually placed “in Christ” receives the reconciliation provided by the propitiation of Christ’s sacrifice.

Was it His purpose to make men savable, or to actually atone for their sins?
God’s purpose was to reconcile mankind thus providing the opportunity for atonement and to provide atonement for those who believe fully in God and His Christ.

And if those sins have been borne by Christ and the punishment due them laid upon Him, upon what basis will those same sins be punished in those who reject Him? Again, the question rests on a false premise, and thus presents a false dichotomy. God accepted Christ’s sacrifice as the propitiation for the whole world. One facet of this truth is explained in Hebrews 9:15. Christ’s death was for the redemption of the transgressions committed under the Old Covenant, and therefore those who have been called under the Old Covenant may receive the promise of eternal life under the New Covenant in the blood of Christ. Since the New Covenant was inaugurated at the death of Christ on the cross, the Old Testament saints did not receive the promise of eternal life until they were covered by Christ’s propitiation – see Hebrews 11:39-40.

Did Jesus, as the faithful High Priest, intercede for those who will never be saved? Yes, see Hebrews 9:11-12. Christ entered the spiritual tabernacle, the kingdom of God, after He died, arose and ascended, where He intercedes on behalf of those who have been spiritually placed “in Him.” But He entered the tabernacle as High Priest “once for all” such that anyone placed in Christ has Christ as his or her High Priest, because His sacrifice of Himself obtained eternal redemption for anyone who is spiritually placed in Christ. So in the sense of sacrificing, He acted as High Priest for everyone, but in the sense of interceding, He acts for those who are “in Christ,” for those who have received the reconciliation provided by His sacrifice. So using the Old Testament sacrifices as a model, when Christ sacrificed Himself, He was acting as High Priest sacrificing the animal and obtaining the blood. Then when we are sprinkled with the blood, when we are spiritually placed in Christ, Christ is acting as High Priest for those in Christ.

And if so, what is the nature of this failed intercession? Christ’s intercession on behalf of all mankind did not fail, and His intercession on behalf of those placed in Him does not fail, He is God Almighty.



http://www.christianforums.com/t4165977-atonement-questions.html

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Just thought we could discuss the answers given, that's all, just trying to learn.

Peace,

jm
 
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Scott Bushey

Puritanboard Commissioner
spiritually placed “in Christ”

The way the above is being repetitively used sounds like some cultic mumbo jumbo...........

God’s purpose was to reconcile mankind thus providing the opportunity for atonement

Opportunity? Possibly heaven will be empty.........

WCF ch 8
I. It pleased God, in his eternal purpose, to choose and ordain the Lord Jesus, his only begotten Son, to be the Mediator between God and man,[1] the Prophet,[2] Priest,[3] and King,[4] the Head and Savior of his church,[5] the Heir of all things,[6] and Judge of the world:[7] unto whom he did from all eternity give a people, to be his seed,[8] and to be by him in time redeemed, called, justified, sanctified, and glorified.[9]

1. Isa. 42:1; I Peter 1:19-20; John 3:16; I Tim. 2:5
2. Acts 3:20, 22; see Deut. 18:15
3. Heb. 5:5-6
4. Psa. 2:6; Luke 1:33; see Isa. 9:5-6; Acts 2:29-36; Col. 1:13
5. Eph. 5:23
6. Heb. 1:2
7. Acts 17:31
8. John 17:6; Psa. 22:30; Isa. 53:10; Eph. 1:4
9. I Tim. 2:6; Isa. 55:4-5; I Cor. 1:30; Rom 8:30

V. The Lord Jesus, by his perfect obedience, and sacrifice of himself, which he, through the eternal Spirit, once offered up unto God, hath fully satisfied the justice of his Father;[34] and purchased, not only reconciliation, but an everlasting inheritance in the kingdom of heaven, for all those whom the Father hath given unto him.[35]

34. Rom. 3:25-26; 5:19; Heb. 9:14; 10:14; Eph. 5:2
35. Dan. 9:24; II Cor. 5:18; Col. 1:20; Eph. 1:11, 14; Heb. 9:12, 15; John 17:2



Since the New Covenant was inaugurated at the death of Christ on the cross, the Old Testament saints did not receive the promise of eternal life until they were covered by Christ’s propitiation

WCF ch 8

VI. Although the work of redemption was not actually wrought by Christ till after his incarnation, yet the virtue, efficacy, and benefits thereof were communicated unto the elect, in all ages successively from the beginning of the world, in and by those promises, types, and sacrifices, wherein he was revealed, and signified to be the seed of the woman which should bruise the serpent's head; and the Lamb slain from the beginning of the world; being yesterday and today the same, and forever.[36]

36. Gal. 4:4-5; Gen. 3:15; I Cor. 10:4; Rev. 13:8; Heb. 9:15; 13:8; see Rom. 3:25



Can you say DISPENSATIONALISM? Where is LIMBO?
 
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