"Dude", "brother", "awesome": what do you think?

[cris]

I think we, as Christian/evangelic community, are too quick to adopt words (among others) from MTV and the ghetto.
Has anyone noticed that, too?
Probably "awesome" is the worst "use-case", since, as we know, only God, or something directly related to Him is awesome (the creation) . Do we really think a burger can be "awesome"!?
As about the other two ones, I think we so much want to be "cool". We adopted the language of the teenagers. I don't know whether this happens because we are a society obsessed with youth (which we are) or for some other reason.
But I cannot picture the apostles using words that are almost "gangsta"-like. Yes, the language evolves, but this is slang and I think, we, as Christians, should avoid them.
What do you guys think? Please let me know. Especially if you disagree.

 

[SolaScriptura]

Yes, the language evolves, but this is slang and I think, we, as Christians, should avoid them.

Why? What harm or evil is there in using cultural vernacular?

brother, I say - "take a chill pill, dude."

 

[TimV]

Would you say that a hamburger was awful?

 

[SolaScriptura]

Would you say that a hamburger was awful?

Ooh... good one!

 

[Backwoods Presbyterian]

Like totally.

 

[TimV]

I haven't said anything to Adam yet, but I was cracking up going through his translation of Piscator's Disputations. The translation is great, but Adam is from the Bay Area, and he conscience or otherwise use of slang really spices the book up.

 

[FenderPriest]

I think your face is awesome brother.

I also think it's a silly issue, to be honest. I mean, if you really want to break the English language down, you're using mostly French words in your English, and we all know the French are evil. The next time you use the word "apple" just think about where that word comes from! I think there are more important issues to think through, like how we use theological language today. I think some of the language issues fall into "all things to all men" when they aren't moral categories.

 

[Covenant Joel]

If we were to take your logic, we also couldn't call anything "good," as Jesus said to the rich young ruler that no one is good but God. Yet I had a really good Chipotle burrito yesterday, and I see no problem in describing it as awesome.

Likewise with dude and brother. I'm not exactly sure what you're saying the problem is with them. They're just forms of address which should be used in appropriate contexts...e.g., I can call my buddies that, but if I'm talking to the president, I probably ought to find a different term.

 

[Bookmeister]

Cris,
I agree with everyone here, vernacular is just that, it is neither good nor evil. A much larger problem, and a real problem, is the improper grammar running rampant in our society. Please take no offense Chris but we just have to look to your post, "As about the other two ones," is horrible grammar and a much bigger problem we should address.

 

[Steve Curtis]

I do not understand some slang terms these days, but that doesn't make them bad; grammar, on the other hand, is of a much greater concern to me.

 

[LawrenceU]

Slang comes and goes. While much of it irritates me when I hear it in certain contexts I have learned to let it pass, usually. Some words really get me, like 'dude'. Being called that where I came from was liable to cause a fight. I still have that connotation stuck in my head. I agree with Alan, the devolution of grammar in general is much more serious. We are rapidly approaching a state where even 'educated' people cannot comprehend complex sentences accurately. Some truths cannot be fully communicated apart from that ability. The continual downgrading of vernacular grammar is directly tied to the inability of people to trace logical thought. That is one reason we see the disconnect in so much public thought as revealed in polling. Another aspect are the logical disconnects that exist in the thought processes of many Christians regarding theological principles.

 

[Andres]

I disagree with the others that vernacular is "just that". I think it means a great deal how, when words are used. For example, if I hear an man over the age of, oh say 35ish use the word dude and/or brother when addressing another man, I think its not very appropriate. I think of it in terms of dress. Sure it may not be inherently wrong for a 45 year old man to dress like a 16 year old boy, but I think we would agree they would look awfully silly. As for the word awesome, I agree it should be reserved for God.

Lastly, I do have to take issue with the OP's belief that these words are "ghetto" or "gangsta". Where in the world do you get that from? Saying stuff is ghetto or gangsta is even worse than throwing around dude and brother.

 

[steadfast7]

I disagree with the others that vernacular is "just that". I think it means a great deal how, when words are used. For example, if I hear an man over the age of, oh say 35ish use the word dude and/or brother when addressing another man, I think its not very appropriate. I think of it in terms of dress. Sure it may not be inherently wrong for a 45 year old man to dress like a 16 year old boy, but I think we would agree they would look awfully silly. As for the word awesome, I agree it should be reserved for God.

Appropriateness does not come from the word per se, but from all the social factors involved. What's the nature of their relationship? How well acquainted are they? What's the setting and context of their conversation? Concerning "awesome", if we're going to start reserving words for God alone, won't we find that there's a lot more that we shouldn't use: good, wise, beautiful. Biblically, the word that seems to be refer most reservedly for God is his own name, YHWH.

 

[raekwon]

Lastly, I do have to take issue with the OP's belief that these words are "ghetto" or "gangsta". Where in the world do you get that from? Saying stuff is ghetto or gangsta is even worse than throwing around dude and brother.

Yesterday, I saw a woman order a drink at Starbucks that consisted of 16 shots of espresso (and only espresso). I later said that such a drink is "gangsta". Why? Well... because it's gangsta. Straight-up gangsta, in fact.

 

[Zenas]

Being called that where I came from was liable to cause a fight. I still have that connotation stuck in my head.

Which is also a result of the cultural vernacular from your area, homie.

Will you also condemn the useage of internetisms like "lol"? That's the same thing, albeit typed

(On second thought, no one answer that.)

 

[he beholds]

I disagree with the others that vernacular is "just that". I think it means a great deal how, when words are used. For example, if I hear an man over the age of, oh say 35ish use the word dude and/or brother when addressing another man, I think its not very appropriate. I think of it in terms of dress. Sure it may not be inherently wrong for a 45 year old man to dress like a 16 year old boy, but I think we would agree they would look awfully silly. As for the word awesome, I agree it should be reserved for God.

Lastly, I do have to take issue with the OP's belief that these words are "ghetto" or "gangsta". Where in the world do you get that from? Saying stuff is ghetto or gangsta is even worse than throwing around dude and brother.

While I disagree with the OP and with Andrew about using the vernacular, and especially about there being an age limit to its use, I must say that Andrew makes a great point about gangsta and ghetto. Reading the OP employ the slang use of terms to criticize using slang is ironic. Not only that, the words he chose actually are much more likely to cause offense than the words he criticizes!! (I use those terms, but I don't think it sinful to use slang.) When talking about going to an older, smaller mall back home, my husband and I called it "ghetto." His mom got super offended because she thought we were actually criticizing the mall as a place of danger or crime--to people in our generation it was clear that we were calling it small or old or simply less-appealing than another mall might be. And then use that word to someone from the ghetto, I am sure offense is caused there as well. But, if I were to call my mother-in-law's cooking awesome (which it is) she would see no reason to be offended.

At one time in my life I would have been able to be convinced that the word awesome is meant for God alone, but now I think that if that were the case, then that would be his name. When I call a song, or anything, awesome, I do not mean that it struck a worshipful-awe in me, because at this point in the history of the word, it doesn't usually mean that. It just means cool, which used to speak of temperature.

 

[LawrenceU]

Being called that where I came from was liable to cause a fight. I still have that connotation stuck in my head.

Which is also a result of the cultural vernacular from your area, homie.

Will you also condemn the useage of internetisms like "lol"? That's the same thing, albeit typed

(On second thought, no one answer that.)

Oh, I wasn't condemning it. I was making the point that we all have a vernacular with which we speak and listen. It is shaped by the culture in which we are raised and live. Some aspects of it appear to be moldable, while others not so much. That is one reason that we must be gracious in these sort of dealings. Yet, I do believe that popular media is more of a factor in shaping vernacular than anything else at the present time. I think this may be what is causing a coarsening of common speech.

 

[puritanpilgrim]

Yesterday, I saw a woman order a drink at Starbucks that consisted of 16 shots of espresso (and only espresso). I later said that such a drink is "gangsta". Why? Well... because it's gangsta. Straight-up gangsta, in fact.

No Digity

 

[Zenas]

Being called that where I came from was liable to cause a fight. I still have that connotation stuck in my head.

Which is also a result of the cultural vernacular from your area, homie.

Will you also condemn the useage of internetisms like "lol"? That's the same thing, albeit typed

(On second thought, no one answer that.)

Oh, I wasn't condemning it. I was making the point that we all have a vernacular with which we speak and listen. It is shaped by the culture in which we are raised and live. Some aspects of it appear to be moldable, while others not so much. That is one reason that we must be gracious in these sort of dealings. Yet, I do believe that popular media is more of a factor in shaping vernacular than anything else at the present time. I think this may be what is causing a coarsening of common speech.

I knew you weren't condemning it. It was a lame attempt at humor on my part.

 

[AThornquist]

Afta listenin' ta dat hippidy-hop muzic I only gots ghetto jibba-jabba comin' out ma grill!


I like this thread. While I agree that certain vernacular makes one appear very informal or even less educated, that is not always the case. Likewise, it often has no bearing on the meaning of one's statement and is thus, in my opinion, simply a matter of preference. With that said though, I do believe that it would be helpful for my generation to get out of the habit of thoughtlessly throwing this vernacular into our speech. I seriously struggle in this regard, but we ought to choose our words carefully and with the Lord's glory in mind; therefore, we must have control over our tongues, which includes the words we are discussing.

 

[N. Eshelman]

I think that using the vernacular is part of our Reformed and Puritan tradition. The Puritans were plain style preachers who presented the Truths of Scripture in the speech of their time. If you read non-Puritan authors from the same time period, you will see that they are flowery, eloquent, and use the language in a way that did not connect with the people of the day. In contrast, when you read the Puritans, you find plain words (in their day), illustrations from real life, and down to earth language that points us above the earth towards the Son of God who took on common humanity for our sins.

I am not opposed to the occasional awesome, dude, or brother- as long as they help us to connect with the lost people in our communities, cities, and nations.

 

[AThornquist]

I think that using the vernacular is part of our Reformed and Puritan tradition. The Puritans were plain style preachers who presented the Truths of Scripture in the speech of their time. If you read non-Puritan authors from the same time period, you will see that they are flowery, eloquent, and use the language in a way that did not connect with the people of the day. In contrast, when you read the Puritans, you find plain words (in their day), illustrations from real life, and down to earth language that points us above the earth towards the Son of God who took on common humanity for our sins.

I did not know that. Thank you for sharing!

 

[Staphlobob]

I'm 57 years old and "cool" is about the only word I know. Working at the Helping Up Mission I heard someone (a repeat relapser) complain saying, "I don't get no rap unless I'm in this place. No one gives me any rap when I'm out of here."

I had no idea what he was talking about. Upon asking him what he meant he said that "rap" is another word for "talk." So no one talks to him unless he's in the program. Weird. Why didn't he just say that?

 

[puritanpilgrim]

I also think it's a silly issue, to be honest. I mean, if you really want to break the English language down, you're using mostly French words in your English, and we all know the French are evil. The next time you use the word "apple" just think about where that word comes from! I think there are more important issues to think through, like how we use theological language today. I think some of the language issues fall into "all things to all men" when they aren't moral categories.

Please elaborate. Where does the word apple come from?

 

[N. Eshelman]

"Apple: Just think where that word comes from"

From The Oxford English Dictionary (the last word on words):

[Cognate with Old Frisian appel apple, Middle Dutch appel apple, pomegranate, orange, any round fruit growing on a tree, pupil, pommel (Dutch appel), Old Saxon appul (only in compounds; Middle Low German appel apple), Old High German apful, aphul, aphel, apfel apple, pomegranate, pupil (Middle High German apfel, German Apfel), Old Icelandic epli apple, any fruit from a tree, Old Swedish æple apple, any fruit from a tree (Swedish äpple), Old Danish æplæ, æpæl apple, any fruit from a tree, (æble), Crimean Gothic apel apple, apparently related to (and perhaps ultimately < the same Indo-European base as) Gaulish avallo, (in place names) aballo- apple tree (perhaps post-classical Latin -abulus in acerabulus kind of maple tree (7th cent.)), Irish abal apple tree, ubal, ubul apple (Irish úll), Welsh afall apple tree, afal apple (compare earlier (in a post-classical Latin context) Aballava, the British name of Burgh-by-Sands, Cumberland (probably 2nd cent. in an inscription)), and (if < the same Indo-European base, apparently developed from forms with a long vowel in the first syllable) Old Prussian woble apple, wobalne apple tree, Lithuanian obelis apple tree, obuolys apple, Latvian bele apple tree, bols, bolis apple, Old Church Slavonic jablan apple tree (in an isolated attestation), Old Russian jabolon´ apple tree (Russian jablonja), jabl´´ko, jabloko apple (Russian jabloko), Old Polish yabon apple tree (Polish jabo), yablek (genitive plural) apple (Polish jabko); perhaps compare also Abella, the name of a town in Campania in Italy, perhaps of the same origin (compare Virgil Aeneid 7.740 maliferae..moenia Abellae the walls of apple-bearing Abella). The words in Celtic, Baltic, and Slavonic apparently reflect both a simplex word and a derivative (apparently originally denoting the tree) with a suffix with -n-. For the name of the tree in the Germanic languages see Old English apuldor and its cognates (listed at APPLE TREE n.).
The etymology of the word beyond Germanic is uncertain and disputed. The word may show a borrowing from a non-Indo-European language, or the forms in Germanic, Celtic, Baltic, and Slavonic may all be developed from an Indo-European base, although none of the attempts to identify cognates in other branches of Indo-European have yet met with general acceptance.
In Old English originally a strong masculine u-stem, it shows (already in early texts) attraction to the more common a-stem declension (compare nominative plural æppla beside rare æpplas; see further A. Campbell Old Eng. Gram. (1959) §613); the existence of a weak by-form is perhaps also suggested by the genitive plural form æpplena (for expected æppla) in an isolated attestation from the first half of the 11th cent.
The forms show metanalysis (see N n.).]

 

[awretchsavedbygrace]

You just trippin dawg.

Well, I grew up in "the hood", so, its just language you pick up. I do think it isn't right to address older people as "brother" and "dude". I understand... But just chill out. =)

 

[Andres]

You just trippin dawg.

Well, I grew up in "the hood", so, its just language you pick up. I do think it isn't right to address older people as "brother" and "dude". I understand... But just chill out. =)

You actually make a valid point though. For you Julio, you give no second-thought to talking like this. It has to do with your culture, including what you grew up hearing. There are however other people that it is not natural to hear talk this way and those people sound absolutely ridiculous and I will even say offensive when I hear then throw some of that slang around. Yes, I am offended when I hear middle-aged caucasian men say words like ghetto and gangsta. The reason is because I know they do not talk that way normally so when they use the words its in a condescending context. Even though I doubt he intentionally meant it this way, this is exactly how I took the OP's usage of the words.

---------- Post added at 04:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:55 PM ----------

Lastly, I do have to take issue with the OP's belief that these words are "ghetto" or "gangsta". Where in the world do you get that from? Saying stuff is ghetto or gangsta is even worse than throwing around dude and brother.

Yesterday, I saw a woman order a drink at Starbucks that consisted of 16 shots of espresso (and only espresso). I later said that such a drink is "gangsta". Why? Well... because it's gangsta. Straight-up gangsta, in fact.

I don't get it. How is drinking a lot of caffeine gangsta? I guess we were/are culturally exposed to that word differently because it seems to have a totally different meaning to me than you.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I disagree with the others that vernacular is "just that". I think it means a great deal how, when words are used. For example, if I hear an man over the age of, oh say 35ish use the word dude and/or brother when addressing another man, I think its not very appropriate. I think of it in terms of dress. Sure it may not be inherently wrong for a 45 year old man to dress like a 16 year old boy, but I think we would agree they would look awfully silly. As for the word awesome, I agree it should be reserved for God.

As a senior Marine Officer, age 42, I sometimes call my peers "Dude" in casual conversation. Of course I've been using that term with peers for over a quarter of a century. It's not exactly a new term as it was very common in the early 80's.

 

[Edward]

Never call a dudette a dude. It's not groovy.

 

[Rich Koster]

In Acts, I see God empowering people to speak the Gospel in dialect/ vulgar language. We should avoid profane speech, but use the language to communicate so the hearer fully grasps what is being said.