faydawg67117
Puritan Board Freshman
Are there any differences as far as doctrine and church government is concerned?
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Originally posted by faydawg67117
Are there any differences as far as doctrine and church government is concerned?
Originally posted by yeutter
The Heidelberg Catechism is not explicitly Zwinglian like the Westminster Confession.
Originally posted by yeutter
Two differences come to mind.
The Dutch Reformed do not ordain Ruling Elders as Presbyterians do. They install them. When their term is up they become former Elders.
The Heidelberg Catechism is not explicitly Zwinglian like the Westminster Confession.
Originally posted by non dignus
Are there different perspectives on the Lord's Day?
In the first place, God wills that the ministry of the Gospel and schools be maintained, and that I, especially on the day of rest, diligently attend church to learn the Word of God, to use the holy sacraments, to call publicly upon the Lord, and to give Christian alms. In the second place, that all the days of my life I rest from my evil works, allow the Lord to work in me by His Spirit, and thus begin in this life the everlasting sabbath.
Originally posted by faydawg67117
Thanks for the answers. I have one specific question in regards to church government.
If there is a conflict between two brothers/sisters in a church that can not be resolved between them and the session can't resolve it, it is my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) that Presbyterians can appeal to a higher court all the way to the GA. In a similiar situation how would this be handled in a Dutch Reformed denomination?
[Edited on 2-5-2006 by faydawg67117]
Originally posted by Me Died Blue
Originally posted by yeutter
The Heidelberg Catechism is not explicitly Zwinglian like the Westminster Confession.
What exactly are you referring to here?
(If the Lord's Supper, specifically section two of the chapter on it, the context of the rest of that chapter more than confirms that it is not in fact speaking of the Supper in a Zwinglian sense.)
Originally posted by R. Scott Clark
.
It's true that the Dutch Reformed have term eldership, but they are ordained to their office, at least they have been in my experience.
In the URC there is a little more flexibility and we in Oceanside regard our elders as active and inactive.
rsc
Originally posted by yeutter
Originally posted by Me Died Blue
Originally posted by yeutter
The Heidelberg Catechism is not explicitly Zwinglian like the Westminster Confession.
What exactly are you referring to here?
(If the Lord's Supper, specifically section two of the chapter on it, the context of the rest of that chapter more than confirms that it is not in fact speaking of the Supper in a Zwinglian sense.)
Chris;
You and Dr. Clark are right. I used too strong of language in calling the Westminster explicitly Zwinglian. You are correct that when the Westminster is read in context expresses Calvin's view not that of Zwingli. I should of said the Westminster is open to a Zwinglian interpretation in a way the Three Forms of Unity are not.
Originally posted by yeutter
Originally posted by R. Scott Clark
.
It's true that the Dutch Reformed have term eldership, but they are ordained to their office, at least they have been in my experience.
In the URC there is a little more flexibility and we in Oceanside regard our elders as active and inactive.
rsc
Do you ordain elders with the laying on of hands in the United Reformed Church?
In the Protestant Reformed Church and the Canadian Reformed Church I have heard the term former elder used. I also know of a case in the Canadian Reformed Church where a 'former elder' was nominated to the office of deacon.
Maybe the URC, PRC, CRC, and Netherlands Reformed Congregations share the Church order of Dordt but have developed differently in how they implement it.
Emphasis mine - rscElders and deacons shall be elected to a term specified by the Consistory, and upon subscribing to the Three Forms of Unity by signing the Form of Subscription, shall be ordained or installed with the use of the appropriate liturgical form before entering upon their work.
Originally posted by JohnV
I grew up in the Dutch Reformed setting, and I don't recall anything about a three office view. My first introduction to that came from my affiliation with Presbyterians, not the Dutch.
We believe that the ministers of God's Word, the elders, and the deacons ought to be chosen to their respective offices by a lawful election by the Church, with calling upon the name of the Lord, and in that order which the Word of God teaches. Therefore every one must take heed not to intrude himself by improper means, but is bound to wait till it shall please God to call him; that he may have testimony of his calling, and be certain and assured that it is of the Lord.
As for the ministers of God's Word, they have equally the same power and authority wheresoever they are, as they are all ministers of Christ, the only universal Bishop and the only Head of the Church.
Moreover, in order that this holy ordinance of God may not be violated or slighted, we say that every one ought to esteem the ministers of God's Word and the elders of the Church very highly for their work's sake, and be at peace with them without murmuring, strife, or contention, as much as possible.
Originally posted by R. Scott Clark
There are differences in polity. In Dutch churches the relations between classis and consistory (the local adjudicating body) are described as broader not "higher." In Presbyterian polity, the presbytery is "higher" than the session etc. In Dutch polity, ministers are not members of classis, only of their local congregation. Classis only exists as a delegated body. When it closes business it doesn't exist. In Presbyterian polity, the Presbytery is a body that always exists and frequently meets (again, esp. in the OPC! - I say with affection and reverence). The minister is a member of Presbytery on loan to a local congregation.
Originally posted by R. Scott Clark
Art. 13 of the URC CO indicates some ambivalence when it equates ordination with installation:
Emphasis mine - rscElders and deacons shall be elected to a term specified by the Consistory, and upon subscribing to the Three Forms of Unity by signing the Form of Subscription, shall be ordained or installed with the use of the appropriate liturgical form before entering upon their work.
rsc
Originally posted by CJ_Chelpka
Originally posted by R. Scott Clark
There are differences in polity. In Dutch churches the relations between classis and consistory (the local adjudicating body) are described as broader not "higher." In Presbyterian polity, the presbytery is "higher" than the session etc. In Dutch polity, ministers are not members of classis, only of their local congregation. Classis only exists as a delegated body. When it closes business it doesn't exist. In Presbyterian polity, the Presbytery is a body that always exists and frequently meets (again, esp. in the OPC! - I say with affection and reverence). The minister is a member of Presbytery on loan to a local congregation.
Dr. Clark,
I don't think I understand this. How does the membership of the minister effect the broader vs. higher understanding? I think I'm missing the nuances of broader vs. higher. Would you please unpack this a little for me?
Thanks,
Christopher
Originally posted by R. Scott Clark
The idea behind "broader" is that it is a decision temporarily constituted making body that is made up of representives from a varieties consistories, but it is not "above" consistory. Consistory does not work for Classis, but Classis works for consistory. Ditto for Synod.
Originally posted by faydawg67117
Are there any differences as far as doctrine and church government is concerned?
Originally posted by JOwen
Originally posted by faydawg67117
Are there any differences as far as doctrine and church government is concerned?
Technically, it should be "Three Forms vs. Presbyterian" as we are speaking of confessional practices here not nationalities. I have great Three Forms friends that are not Dutch
Kind regards,
Jerrold
Originally posted by Me Died Blue
Originally posted by JOwen
Originally posted by faydawg67117
Are there any differences as far as doctrine and church government is concerned?
Technically, it should be "Three Forms vs. Presbyterian" as we are speaking of confessional practices here not nationalities. I have great Three Forms friends that are not Dutch
Kind regards,
Jerrold
I suppose "Continental Reformed" might be a more accurate description as well.