Duties and responsibilities of a citizen

Status
Not open for further replies.

Richard King

Puritan Board Senior
I was just wondering how you guys and gals ('yall'...as we say down here) feel about a Christians duties of citizenry?
Is there such a duty? I did a stint with the Texas State Guard and I participate with a ham radio emergency responce team and I was wondering what the feelings are about doing so if it conflicts with Sabbath etc.

Also I read this in Wikipedia and it struck me as different than the public perception of Puritans:

"The early Puritan colonists of America considered the militia an important social structure, necessary to defend their colonies from Indian attacks. All able-bodied males were expected to be members of the town militia. During the French and Indian Wars the town militias formed a recruiting pool for the Provincial Forces. The legislature of the colony would authorize a certain force level for the season's campaign, and based on that set recruitment quotas for each town militia. In theory militia members could be drafted by lot if there were not volunteers enough to meet the quota, however this was rarely resorted to as Provincial soldiers were highly paid (more highly paid then their regular British Army counterparts) and rarely engaged in combat.

In the American Revolutionary War, colonial militiamen or armed citizens agreed to turn out for service at a minute's notice. The term minutemen is used especially for the men who were enrolled (1774) for such service by the Massachusetts provincial congress. These were also known as the "valiant farmers" who fought against the British at the battles of Lexington and Concord."


Any thoughts?
 

Anton Bruckner

Puritan Board Professor
I guess Christian duties depend largely upon the socio economic status of the Church. Being an Israelite in Egypt pre exodus is much different than being a first Century Jew under Roman Occupation, and very different from being a first century Christian under Roman persecution and Jewish persecution, which is much different from being a 21st century Christian in an Islamic dominated country which is way much different from being a 21st century Christian in America.
 

Puritanhead

Puritan Board Professor
The militia died a long time ago... now, all we have is a standing army. Soldiers in republics fight for honor and to defend their home and hearth, and soldiers in empires-- well, they fight for mammon.
 

Richard King

Puritan Board Senior
Yeah, a lot of things died with the death of constitutionality.
However, there are over 30 states that still have state militias. Ours (Texas ) was called out most recently by the governor to keep Katrina evacuees from killing each other in the facilities provided at the Astrodome, San Antonio and Dallas.
You won't ever hear of it ofcourse but evacuees know about
"The 89th Brigade - unpaid and unafraid" and others in the TSG who were away from home for a week or two.
...but I know that even hinting at the topic is anathema.
I just wondered if volunteer duty in that or even the Red Cross or Amateur radio was considered a no-no by Sabbatarians.

By your other definition am I to assume that America is an empire or that someone here has a hearth and home near Bagdad. : )

[Edited on 2-9-2006 by Richard King]
 

Semper Fidelis

2 Timothy 2:24-25
Staff member
Originally posted by Puritanhead
The militia died a long time ago... now, all we have is a standing army. Soldiers in republics fight for honor and to defend their home and hearth, and soldiers in empires-- well, they fight for mammon.
Please explain this to me.
 

Plimoth Thom

Puritan Board Freshman
Originally posted by Richard King
Provincial soldiers were highly paid (more highly paid then their regular British Army counterparts) and rarely engaged in combat.

Though a bit off topic, I gotta disagree with this statement from the wiki article. Provincial soldiers in the F&I War made up the bulk of British forces in most of the campaigns, and took part in every major battle of the war, and the majority of the smaller skirmishes. In fact some of the major British victories of the war such as the Battle of Lake George (1755) and the capture of Fort Frontenac (1758) were Provincial undertakings without any British Regulars involved. As for their pay, that varied according to each colony. Some Provincials such as those from Rhode Island or New Hampshire had to provide their own weapons, clothing and equipment. Others from colonies like Massachusetts and Connecticut which fielded the largest numbers of men respectively, supplied and paid their soldiers better.

As for the Provincial soldier's observance of Sabbath, the Provincials sent large numbers of Chaplains with their soldiers. The majority came from Massachusetts. Provincial soldiers were expected to attend Sabbath services, but sometimes missed them to fulfill necessary duties. When you read through the journals of these soldiers its interesting to note the frequent mention of the sermon topics or scripture passages the chaplains were preaching on.

[Edited on 2-10-2006 by Plimoth Thom]
 

SolaScriptura

Puritanboard Brimstone
Originally posted by SemperFideles
Originally posted by Puritanhead
The militia died a long time ago... now, all we have is a standing army. Soldiers in republics fight for honor and to defend their home and hearth, and soldiers in empires-- well, they fight for mammon.
Please explain this to me.

He's saying that you're a greedy, money-loving, mercenary.
 

Puritanhead

Puritan Board Professor
Now, did I really say that?
:um:

I was being tongue-in-cheek and taking a shot at foreign policy in the age of imperial overstretch-- not the troops. It's double-digit wages, money for college and housing subsidies that get twentysomethings to sign up and goto Beujeckistan and risk life and limb. I wouldn't say it is worth it-- given how some come back home. I sure don't want to goto Iraq or Afghanistan now. I don't know what was wrong with me two years ago.
 

Semper Fidelis

2 Timothy 2:24-25
Staff member
I didn't sign up for the money. I signed up because ladies dig Marines.

[Edited on 2-10-2006 by SemperFideles]
 

Puritanhead

Puritan Board Professor
Originally posted by SemperFideles
I didn't sign up for the money. I signed up because ladies dig Marines.

Good as reason as any I guess. I've coveted those dress blues, but I don't have the mettle for it.
 

smhbbag

Puritan Board Senior
The militia died a long time ago... now, all we have is a standing army. Soldiers in republics fight for honor and to defend their home and hearth, and soldiers in empires-- well, they fight for mammon.

Thus giving rise to the general rule: powerful standing armies never just stand there. It's a contradiction in terms. They will be used for something, especially when a single executive with unchecked war powers has them at his fingertips. They will never be allowed to idle. Too much temptation.

And yeah, Ryan, it really doesn't get any better than the dress blues. Just the sight of 'em has recruited plenty of men, and smitten their women :)

As for the original question posed: I tend to believe that a citizen's non-arms-bearing duty to his country is fulfilled when he has done his duty to his God, his family, and his church. When one is faithful in preaching the gospel, works hard to provide for his family, raises godly children, serves his church, and exemplifies Christian charity to his neighbor - the entirety of his duty to his country is fulfilled.

Obviously the one exception to that rule is when it is time to fight fiercely in defense of hearth and homeland. This, I think, may be the only universal duty that all men have to their nations that could be a duty only to the state....i.e. it's not directly a defense of his household, but it is a separate duty to the nation in which God has placed him.

So as far as a set-apart duty that is owed only to the state, and not already demanded by our duties to the other institutions, the only one I know of is military service when justified. Of course, we could throw paying taxes and obedience to laws (those that are Lawful, at least) in there too, but I guess that's assumed.


[Edited on 2-10-2006 by smhbbag]
 

Semper Fidelis

2 Timothy 2:24-25
Staff member
Originally posted by Puritanhead
Originally posted by SemperFideles
I didn't sign up for the money. I signed up because ladies dig Marines.

Good as reason as any I guess. I've coveted those dress blues, but I don't have the mettle for it.
I think the Evening Dress uniform is even nicer:

RichandSonya.jpg


The Evening Dress is nice because the Blues get kind of restricting after a long night of dancing, drinking (in moderation), and smoking cigars.

[Edited on 2-10-2006 by SemperFideles]
 

Richard King

Puritan Board Senior
Originally posted by SemperFideles
I didn't sign up for the money. I signed up because ladies dig Marines.

[Edited on 2-10-2006 by SemperFideles]


HAAaaaa!!! No doubt many a man has signed up for that reason but I bet none got out the other side of boot camp fueled by that!

I remember telling my little brother (who is a Marine) that I was shocked when a really really REALLY tough buddy of mine said at one or more points he cried like a baby in Marine boot camp.
My brother said "anyone who claims they didn't...probably never went through the experience." They figure they gotta have a man die to self before he is ready for battle. The concept sounds familiar.

Now on a different note...another brother in the Army signed up just because he wanted to fly choppers and he is still in 22 years later as a Colonel ...flying a desk. Anyway...thanks to those who volunteer. May your officers always be men of honor.
 

CalsFarmer

Puritan Board Freshman
Our duties as citizens?

1. to render unto God what is Gods and unto caesar what is caesars

2. Not to cause hate and discontent with each other.

3. to serve our country if called upon or voluntarily

[Edited on 2-10-2006 by CalsFarmer]
 

smhbbag

Puritan Board Senior
^^ I enjoyed every minute of the ~6 weeks I was there. Well, except the minutes between the wake-up call (yell? :) ) and morning chow. I'm not a morning person :) I still define 0400 as really "late".....not early, lol.

The only problem I had was the obscenely low food allotment. I lost 25 pounds in the first 3-4 weeks.....and I didn't need to lose any weight at all. You could see my ribs pretty clearly and my shoulders were boney in no time. When I got home, my max bench press and pull-ups were substantially lower than when I went to boot camp. And my run conditioning, while it didn't worsen, certainly didn't improve. The diet was horrendous. Yeah, we got 3 squares a day, but each had no more than 5-700 calories by my estimates. Yet in order for me to just maintain muscle at that level of exertion, I needed probably close to 4,000+ calories/day. I was eating around 5000/day before shipping out and my weight was steady, but boot camp was a little less rigorous than that preparation stage.

Most recruits did break down emotionally at some point. I don't know what it was, but I'm thinking it was more the absence from home and strange environment for a bunch of 18 year olds, more than it was the actual harshness of the Drill Instructors or Parris Island. You either learned to laugh it off and have fun with it, or the DI's were just the last straw that broke your back. Very few were somewhere in-between those extremes.

Although I did cry like a little baby at one point in my Senior DI's office....but that was when he got the final word that I was going to be sent home, so it doesn't really count :) He was a good guy, and just left me alone in there for a few minutes to cry as much as I wanted. But it was the Lord's will, and I'm so terribly thankfu now for being sent home that I can't even express it. If my convictions were as they are today and I was still in, I'd have a rough time of it to say the least.
 

Puritanhead

Puritan Board Professor
One of my buddies in the Marines Mike told me a DI punched him in the stomach and let him flounder on the ground. Ouch! They're not even supposed to do that.
:)

Mike kept silent, and in turn the Marine DI apologized and said he go easy on him--- by easy, I guess in Marine jargon-- that means not getting punched in stomach anymore-- while he found more indirect ways of torturing him physically. Mike told me you just come to see the yelling and screaming DI's as part of the routine and get used to it, though apparently it spooks some Marines in training.

Now, Mike preaches and wants to plant a church.

[Edited on 2-11-2006 by Puritanhead]
 

Semper Fidelis

2 Timothy 2:24-25
Staff member
For what it's worth, my original interest in an AFROTC scholarship (my father was a Colonel in the AF) and an NROTC scholarship (back-up plan) was the scholarship. That desire was certainly not enough to sustain me or cause me to decide to be a Marine when I could have easily gotten into the Nuke power program and made tons of money.

I think some people (though fewer than Charlie Rangel would like to believe) come in because of limited options or for educational opportunities but it is not reflective of most of the crowd.
 

Puritanhead

Puritan Board Professor
Some come in for action cause they want to get in the bush-- sniff diesel fumes from the back of M1 Abrams tank while cracking off rounds from a Squad Automatic Weapon! Ooh-Rah!
:)
 

Puritanhead

Puritan Board Professor
Oh yeah-- to get back to the duties and responsibilities of a citizen-- I think it is prudent and patriotic to serve your local communities in disaster relief.
Also, there are ways apart from military service to do that.

Second, our soldiers put their lives on the line and they do it to serve their country... that should be appreciated irrespective of disagreements about foreign policy. So no one misread my remarks as being ill considerate of our troops. It was wrong troops came back from Vietnam to get spat upon and cursed at by those militant left-wing anti-war protestors. Even though I seriously contemplated military service, I still believe that a volunteer fighting force is preferable to one based on a conscripted involuntary draft.

Blackhawk Down is just another Hollywood drama but it was some wisdom in that statement by a character called Hoot (Eric Bana). He put it this way: "Once that first bullet goes past your head, politics and all the @#@#@# just goes right out the window." In the thick of combat, they are most certainly fighting for each other.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top