Eating out Lord's Day, scripture and confession

[DonP]

You are absolutely right. I would also add the same is true for the hotel/motel industry.

OK now you are stepping on my toes.

so what do I do when I travel on business and do not know people to stay with over the Lord's day, so that I don't travel home on that day??

And what about commercial travel, air, bus, bus or subway to church, lets get it all out.

Here or another thread. I would also like to talk about that when is the Lord's day thing,
cause I am thinking to go by the laws of my land as opposed to the Jewish calendar. I think we rest the day, during the normal time we would be working. We rest from our normal labor. Though I submit to the confessional, whole day language and since I sleep nearly 1/3 of the 24 the issue is only with what 16 hours. dusk to dusk or dawn to dawn or just dawn to dusk, unless you are a graveyard shift worker, then I say you pick it! I doubt that it matters.

 

[Knoxienne]

You are absolutely right. I would also add the same is true for the hotel/motel industry.

OK now you are stepping on my toes.

so what do I do when I travel on business and do not know people to stay with over the Lord's day, so that I don't travel home on that day??

And what about commercial travel, air, bus, bus or subway to church, lets get it all out.

Here or another thread. I would also like to talk about that when is the Lord's day thing,
cause I am thinking to go by the laws of my land as opposed to the Jewish calendar. I think we rest the day, during the normal time we would be working. We rest from our normal labor. Though I submit to the confessional, whole day language and since I sleep nearly 1/3 of the 24 the issue is only with what 16 hours. dusk to dusk or dawn to dawn or just dawn to dusk, unless you are a graveyard shift worker, then I say you pick it! I doubt that it matters.

No, I don't want to step on your toes! Again, I'm not saying it's a sin in and of itself to use a restaurant or a hotel on the Lord's Day. It isn't always possible to stay at someone's home.

 

[DonP]

No, I don't want to step on your toes! Again, I'm not saying it's a sin in and of itself to use a restaurant or a hotel on the Lord's Day. It isn't always possible to stay at someone's home.

Its Ok you can step on them, it isn't a bad thing. I need them stepped on. And I am open to reconsider all of this.

I was just instructed about Innkeepers and this was permitted. We aren't expected to sleep out int he snow or unsafe places but buying food or restaurant use they say is not such a necessity.

So fire away anyone. I want to be sharpened.

 

[PresbyDane]

I have never thought about this
We even have something called church coffee were we take turns and go to each others houses and eat lunch and have coffee

 

[Scottish Lass]

I have never thought about this
We even have something called church coffee were we take turns and go to each others houses and eat lunch and have coffee

Cool!

 

[Marrow Man]

I have never thought about this
We even have something called church coffee were we take turns and go to each others houses and eat lunch and have coffee

See, Martin, living in the U.S. isn't all peaches and cream. We have a different set of issues to work through. The gentle simplicity of what you have mentioned is wonderful.

 

[Knoxienne]

I have never thought about this
We even have something called church coffee were we take turns and go to each others houses and eat lunch and have coffee

That sounds wonderful. Do the Danish like their coffee strong like the Dutch and other Europeans? Dutch folks make wonderful coffee.

 

[ww]

A couple of people have mentioned the need to eat out while traveling or on vacation (as an exception). And I'm not sure that I'd agree....a vacation is not a necessity nor is it commanded in Scripture ,however, keeping the Lord's day Holy is! As one person already mentioned that includes choosing your activities wisely and what type of vacations you go on. Personally, when I travel I have always made it a point to plan ahead and prepare well in advance so that I am staying with someone on the Sabbath (even when I've traveled overseas). And I've made it a point to plan in such a way that I can prepare my own meals the night before or make arrangements for someone to have me over.

I don't believe setting the day apart begins on Sunday morning or even Saturday at that matter...I believe it is something that we ought to work towards and look forward to throughout the week! We ought to be planning and preparing well in advance to set that day apart in our hearts, minds, and practical lives. The puritans often talked about how meeting for worship as a congregation is a picture of heaven...a shadow of worshipping with saints in the heavenly realms...and so this is something we ought to strive towards throughout the week! I think how we set the day apart reflects how much we've prepared in advance and how seriously we have taken the Sabbath!

Here's another perspective:

"It is fitting that the new covenant radically alters the Sabbath perspective. The current believer in Christ does not follow the Sabbath pattern of the people of the old covenant. He does not first labor six days, looking hopefully toward rest. Instead, he begins the week by rejoicing in the rest already accomplished by the cosmic event of Christ's resurrection. Then he enters joyfully into his six days of labor, confident of success through the victory which Christ has already won."

O Palmer Robertson in "Christ of the Covenants."

Would anyone consider this quote an unconfessional statement?

 

[jaybird0827]

I am not comfortable making someone do non-essential vocational work on the Lord's Day, whether they are believers or not. If we're traveling, we pack a cooler.

Theognome

My sentiments exactly. And unless we're staying in someone's home, we make every effort to return home in time for the Lord's Day.

 

[Rich Koster]

Is the day 12:00 to 12:00 or sundown to sundown?

 

[kvanlaan]

My wife's family will invite people over in order to prevent them from eating out and rather eating a home-cooked meal, made from necessity and not for monetary gain.

And done as a charitable service to others... very nice! That is sabbath-keeping done right!

 

[DonP]

Is the day 12:00 to 12:00 or sundown to sundown?

In the NT it must be sun up to sun up because Christ arose or was seen in the dawn, right?. So we have to change it like we change the day.

 

[Marrow Man]

Is the day 12:00 to 12:00 or sundown to sundown?

Rich, Josh called our attention in # 61 to the fact that this sort of question strays a bit from the OP and might be better served by posting a separate thread.

 

[kvanlaan]

That sounds wonderful. Do the Danish like their coffee strong like the Dutch and other Europeans? Dutch folks make wonderful coffee.

Yes, yes, we do (thank you!) I am no longer asked to make coffee at the office, the others take offense at its strength.

 

[Idelette]

A couple of people have mentioned the need to eat out while traveling or on vacation (as an exception). And I'm not sure that I'd agree....a vacation is not a necessity nor is it commanded in Scripture ,however, keeping the Lord's day Holy is! As one person already mentioned that includes choosing your activities wisely and what type of vacations you go on. Personally, when I travel I have always made it a point to plan ahead and prepare well in advance so that I am staying with someone on the Sabbath (even when I've traveled overseas). And I've made it a point to plan in such a way that I can prepare my own meals the night before or make arrangements for someone to have me over.

I don't believe setting the day apart begins on Sunday morning or even Saturday at that matter...I believe it is something that we ought to work towards and look forward to throughout the week! We ought to be planning and preparing well in advance to set that day apart in our hearts, minds, and practical lives. The puritans often talked about how meeting for worship as a congregation is a picture of heaven...a shadow of worshipping with saints in the heavenly realms...and so this is something we ought to strive towards throughout the week! I think how we set the day apart reflects how much we've prepared in advance and how seriously we have taken the Sabbath!

Here's another perspective:

"It is fitting that the new covenant radically alters the Sabbath perspective. The current believer in Christ does not follow the Sabbath pattern of the people of the old covenant. He does not first labor six days, looking hopefully toward rest. Instead, he begins the week by rejoicing in the rest already accomplished by the cosmic event of Christ's resurrection. Then he enters joyfully into his six days of labor, confident of success through the victory which Christ has already won."

O Palmer Robertson in "Christ of the Covenants."

Would anyone consider this quote an unconfessional statement?

In the fourth chapter of Hebrews, the Apostle Paul plainly shows us that resting from our daily labors on God’s holy Sabbath pictures our glorious future as Spirit-born sons into God’s Family! He shows that Sabbath keeping actually pictures rest from our struggles against sin which God promises to give His obedient children! (Hebrews 4:1-11)

Matthew Henry's commentary on Hebrews 4:1-10 "It is evident, that there is a more spiritual and excellent sabbath remaining for the people of God, than that of the seventh day, or that into which Joshua led the Jews. This rest is, a rest of grace, and comfort, and holiness, in the gospel state. And a rest in glory, where the people of God shall enjoy the end of their faith, and the object of all their desires. The rest, or sabbatism, which is the subject of the apostle's reasoning, and as to which he concludes that it remains to be enjoyed, is undoubtedly the heavenly rest, which remains to the people of God, and is opposed to a state of labour and trouble in this world. It is the rest they shall obtain when the Lord Jesus shall appear from heaven. But those who do not believe, shall never enter into this spiritual rest, either of grace here or glory hereafter. God has always declared man's rest to be in him, and his love to be the only real happiness of the soul; and faith in his promises, through his Son, to be the only way of entering that rest."

 

[Knoxienne]

That sounds wonderful. Do the Danish like their coffee strong like the Dutch and other Europeans? Dutch folks make wonderful coffee.

Yes, yes, we do (thank you!) I am no longer asked to make coffee at the office, the others take offense at its strength.

Sort of like taking offense at strong preaching!

 

[Davidius]

I don't think that the disciples, when they were picking grain on the Sabbath, had been missing meals all week and were starving. Someone mentioned that for them it was a "matter of life and death" but that's just silly.

This is something that I've waffled around quite a bit over the last year. At this point I can only with a clear conscience vote that eating out is not a sin because I am not convinced that it is, and I don't want to bind others' consciences when I'm not sure myself.

 

[DonP]

I don't think that the disciples, when they were picking grain on the Sabbath, had been missing meals all week and were starving. Someone mentioned that for them it was a "matter of life and death" but that's just silly.

This is something that I've waffled around quite a bit over the last year. At this point I can only with a clear conscience vote that eating out is not a sin because I am not convinced that it is, and I don't want to bind others' consciences when I'm not sure myself.

Sorry I meant David and his men may have been starving or weak.

the disciples were hungry and maybe hadn't eaten in more than just the last meal. It was a necessity anyway. And they did not go to a store and buy, they legally gleaned for themselves. No buying, selling commerce, restaurant. They were not working and harvesting as the Pharisees tried to equate it to.

Here is Matt Henry on David and the shewbread
Matt 12:1-13

[1.] He urges an ancient instance of David, who in a case of necessity did that which otherwise he ought not to have done (v. 3-4); "Have ye not read the story (1 Sam 21:6) of David's eating the show-bread, which by the law was appropriated to the priest?" (Lev 24:5-9). It is most holy to Aaron and his sons; and (Ex 29:33) a stranger shall not eat of it; yet the priest gave it to David and his men; for though the exception of a case of necessity was not expressed, yet it was implied in that and all other ritual institutions. That which bore out David in eating the show-bread was not his dignity (Uzziah, that invaded the priest's office in the pride of his heart, though a king, was struck with a leprosy for it, 2 Chron 26:16, etc.), but his hunger. The greatest shall not have their lusts indulged, but the meanest shall have their wants considered. Hunger is a natural desire which cannot be mortified, but must be gratified, and cannot be put off with any thing but meat; therefore we say, It will break through stone walls. Now the Lord is for the body, and allowed his own appointment to be dispensed with in a case of distress; much more might the tradition of the elders be dispensed with. Note, That may be done in a case of necessity which may not be done at another time; there are laws which necessity has not, but it is a law to itself.
(from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.)

 

[bookslover]

However when I travel I call the church beforehand and inform the minister of my visit to their congregation - I also ask if someone would be willing to break bread with us - so we don't have to go out to a resturant. The minister or one of the elders have been happy to provided a meal for us and there has been no need to go out to a restaurant. In other words a little preparation or planning goes a long way.

So, what's the difference between arranging for a private individual to feed you and going to a restaurant? Aren't you "making" the private individual spend his or her Sunday preparing food for you, just as you would allegedly be "making" a restaurant worker do the same?

As for "making" or "forcing" (in a sense) a restaurant worker to serve you - you're not. They're working there on Sunday whether you show up or not.

 

[Herald]

However when I travel I call the church beforehand and inform the minister of my visit to their congregation - I also ask if someone would be willing to break bread with us - so we don't have to go out to a resturant. The minister or one of the elders have been happy to provided a meal for us and there has been no need to go out to a restaurant. In other words a little preparation or planning goes a long way.

So, what's the difference between arranging for a private individual to feed you and going to a restaurant? Aren't you "making" the private individual spend his or her Sunday preparing food for you, just as you would allegedly be "making" a restaurant worker do the same?

As for "making" or "forcing" (in a sense) a restaurant worker to serve you - you're not. They're working there on Sunday whether you show up or not.

Richard, it would seem (to me) that a brother or sister preparing a meal for another brother or sister would an act of mercy.

 

[Scott1]

10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Looking at this passage, it appears the prohibition is more broad- against "work" rather than only one's employment, where one earns a living. We know from Matthew 12:1, ordinary food preparation (and I think in the context of still keeping the whole day "holy" by focusing on God) is excepted.

We are assuming that what makes "eating out" unacceptable is not the "non-worshipful" environment of the restaurant but the pay given employees, and our demanding service from them. It would seem the former plays into keeping the day "holy."

 

[PresbyDane]

I have never thought about this
We even have something called church coffee were we take turns and go to each others houses and eat lunch and have coffee

That sounds wonderful. Do the Danish like their coffee strong like the Dutch and other Europeans? Dutch folks make wonderful coffee.

I do not know if the danish in general make strong coffee, but the christians in Inner Mission were I preach ae known to make the strongest coffee.
And yes danish people drink a lot of coffee, I do not know if we still are, but at one point we were the country in the world that drank the most coffee per person.

 

[Knoxienne]

I have never thought about this
We even have something called church coffee were we take turns and go to each others houses and eat lunch and have coffee

That sounds wonderful. Do the Danish like their coffee strong like the Dutch and other Europeans? Dutch folks make wonderful coffee.

I do not know if the danish in general make strong coffee, but the christians in Inner Mission were I preach ae known to make the strongest coffee.
And yes danish people drink a lot of coffee, I do not know if we still are, but at one point we were the country in the world that drank the most coffee per person.

Then I say, Viva la Danimarca!!!

 

[PresbyDane]

Thank you, that shows your very big and good judge of people

 

[kvanlaan]

As for "making" or "forcing" (in a sense) a restaurant worker to serve you - you're not. They're working there on Sunday whether you show up or not.

Yes, but there is a hope that with a noticable drop in revenues, they would close on Sundays.

 

[Marrow Man]

As for "making" or "forcing" (in a sense) a restaurant worker to serve you - you're not. They're working there on Sunday whether you show up or not.

Yes, but there is a hope that with a noticable drop in revenues, they would close on Sundays.

If 1) alcohol sales were prohibited on Sundays and 2) church folk didn't flood the restaurants after worship, it would seem hard to imagine most restaurants being open on that day.

 

[DonP]

If the moral law is obligatory for all people to obey, wouldn't I as a Christian want to be a good witness that we don;t want people doing the employments on that day?

Some one said we should reprove those who take the lords name in vain, pass a law against going it, and yet they would not go reprove a person who breaks th 4th command? And we would eve ncondone what they are doing by being a partaker in other men's sin?

1 Tim 5:22 nor share in other people's sins; keep yourself pure. NKJV

Eph 5:8-12 Walk as children of light 9(for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), 10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. 11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 For it is shameful even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret.
NKJV

 

[kceaster]

I would just add that we all need to examine our hearts when discussing this. I am not accusing anyone of not doing that.

We each need to realize that we break the Sabbath every Lord's Day. One brother said that he keeps the Sabbath. Brother, there is no one who keeps the Sabbath but One, and we need to remember that.

Since this is a question of obedience, then it obviously falls under progressive sanctification, and therefore, there should be mercy and grace and latitude.

It is not a license to sin. May it never be so! But instead of anguish over a list of do's and don'ts regarding the Sabbath, perhaps we would grow up in the Lord by realizing that we should anguish over the other 9 commandments we break daily in thought, word, and deed. May it never be named among Christ's church that we believe we keep the Sabbath and that God finds us blameless in it. Rather, we should look unto Jesus who perfectly obeyed the Sabbath and holds out for us real and lasting rest when the fulness of the times comes.

We should behave according to our consciences and not attempt to bind anyone's conscience regarding the keeping of the law. Advise, yes. Pray with and for, yes. But look down our nose or judge someone, no. Have patience and be at peace.

In Christ,

KC

 

[ww]

I would just add that we all need to examine our hearts when discussing this. I am not accusing anyone of not doing that.

We each need to realize that we break the Sabbath every Lord's Day. One brother said that he keeps the Sabbath. Brother, there is no one who keeps the Sabbath but One, and we need to remember that.

Since this is a question of obedience, then it obviously falls under progressive sanctification, and therefore, there should be mercy and grace and latitude.

It is not a license to sin. May it never be so! But instead of anguish over a list of do's and don'ts regarding the Sabbath, perhaps we would grow up in the Lord by realizing that we should anguish over the other 9 commandments we break daily in thought, word, and deed. May it never be named among Christ's church that we believe we keep the Sabbath and that God finds us blameless in it. Rather, we should look unto Jesus who perfectly obeyed the Sabbath and holds out for us real and lasting rest when the fulness of the times comes.

We should behave according to our consciences and not attempt to bind anyone's conscience regarding the keeping of the law. Advise, yes. Pray with and for, yes. But look down our nose or judge someone, no. Have patience and be at peace.

In Christ,

KC

 

[DonP]

We each need to realize that we break the Sabbath every Lord's Day. One brother said that he keeps the Sabbath. Brother, there is no one who keeps the Sabbath but One, and we need to remember that.

KC

This is not true. The fact we do not keep the commandments perfectly does not mean we do not keep them.

These are not idle goals to aim toward. You had better be KEEPING the commands in the sense scripture tells us.

1 John 3:22
22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.
NKJV

1 John 5:2-4
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world — our faith
NKJV

Rev 12:17
17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
NKJV

1 John 2:3-6

Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
NKJV

John 15:10
10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love. NKJV

Matt 19:17
But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."
NKJV
Was Jesus teaching Judaism or Chritianity.

And don't anyone say this is works salvation or FV This is simply saying those who have been born again have some definitive santification and they as a result of being regenerated desire to do works and obey