Ecumenicism vs. Seperation

[Jeremy]

The Ecumenical documents, signed by Protestants leaders, have stated that Catholics are to be called our brothers and sisters in Christ.

How do you reconcile that with the command in scripture to have nothing to do with so called "brothers" who are idolaters? (I Cor. 5:11)

 

[cupotea]

Originally posted by Jeremy
The Ecumenical documents, signed by Protestants leaders, have stated that Catholics are to be called our brothers and sisters in Christ.

How do you reconcile that with the command in scripture to have nothing to do with so called "brothers" who are idolaters? (I Cor. 5:11)

Simple. Ignore them. That is, ignore all documents and so-called "leaders."

I was once ordained Roman. I know their theology - and it's idolatrous nature. As one modern-day Roman-become-Puritan said, "I don't want to go back to sucking the big toe of Mary." (A reference to the May Day celebrations.)

Still, according to "Protestant leaders" they are bothers and sisters. But according to God's Word, they're not.

I'll stick with God's Word.

BTW, along these lines, I will be seeing Richard Bennett from "The Berean Beacon" Sunday night.

 

[Scott Bushey]

I can hear Cromwell even now...............

 

[Jeremy]

Originally posted by Globachio

Originally posted by Jeremy
The Ecumenical documents, signed by Protestants leaders, have stated that Catholics are to be called our brothers and sisters in Christ.

How do you reconcile that with the command in scripture to have nothing to do with so called "brothers" who are idolaters? (I Cor. 5:11)

Simple. Ignore them. That is, ignore all documents and so-called "leaders."

I was once ordained Roman. I know their theology - and it's idolatrous nature. As one modern-day Roman-become-Puritan said, "I don't want to go back to sucking the big toe of Mary." (A reference to the May Day celebrations.)

Still, according to "Protestant leaders" they are bothers and sisters. But according to God's Word, they're not.

I'll stick with God's Word.

BTW, along these lines, I will be seeing Richard Bennett from "The Berean Beacon" Sunday night.

Richard Bennett

I work for a devout Catholic family, and my boss kisses his picture of Christ before starting work every morning. I struggle with this job because I want to be obedient to this command in scripture. Any suggestions?

-J


(Oh yeah, and I work in the same little office as him too, sharing the same work.)

[Edited on 10-29-2005 by Jeremy]

 

[cupotea]

Originally posted by Jeremy
I work for a devout Catholic family, and my boss kisses his picture of Christ before starting work every morning. I struggle with this job because I want to be obedient to this command in scripture. Any suggestions?

(1) Bring a Bible and read a brief passage before beginning work.
(2) Carry the Bible around, along with a copy of the Westminster Confessions, reading the latter at lunch break.
(3) Pray for your boss.
(4) Do not say or do anything to provoke him. Just continue as always. But if he asks, answer honestly and gently.

 

[AdamM]

I agree with Pastor Guillory.

Let your light shine, by being the hardest working and most honest employee in the company.

 

[R. Scott Clark]

Originally posted by Jeremy
The Ecumenical documents, signed by Protestants leaders, have stated that Catholics are to be called our brothers and sisters in Christ.

How do you reconcile that with the command in scripture to have nothing to do with so called "brothers" who are idolaters? (I Cor. 5:11)

For what it's worth: http://public.csusm.edu/guests/rsclark/ECT.html

It helps if one distinguishes between the two kingdoms. The kingdom of God is the visible, institutional church. The civic kingdom is everything else. Secular (by this I mean only non-ecclesiastical, non-ministerial employment) work belongs to the civic kingdom.

This seems to be Paul's categorical distinction in 1 Cor 5:8-12:

I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people-- not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler- not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? (ESV)

The separation Paul has in mind is separation from those in the church who show themselves to be as he describes.

Admittedly, it is more complicated with devout Romanists. As your employers, they may do as they wish, as long as they don't ask you to participate in their idolatry (1 Cor 8). If you became tempted to join them, that would be another matter. Certainly you should pray for the graces of patience, humility, and when the time comes (should they ask why you don't do these things) the courage to point them to Jesus the only Mediator and his righteousness imputed freely to all who trust him only for their righteousness.

rsc

 

[Jeremy]

Originally posted by Globachio

Originally posted by Jeremy
I work for a devout Catholic family, and my boss kisses his picture of Christ before starting work every morning. I struggle with this job because I want to be obedient to this command in scripture. Any suggestions?

(1) Bring a Bible and read a brief passage before beginning work.
(2) Carry the Bible around, along with a copy of the Westminster Confessions, reading the latter at lunch break.
(3) Pray for your boss.
(4) Do not say or do anything to provoke him. Just continue as always. But if he asks, answer honestly and gently.

Thank you.

I've been keeping a little ESV Bible in my pocket, but haven't really brought it out in the open except to read it in my car at lunch break.
Should I let him see it? He seems to be rather anti-true-Christian.

-J

 

[Saiph]

How is watching your boss kiss an icon really that big of a deal ?

You are not participating by mere aqauintance of your occupation.

Remember Naaman in the temple of Rimnon ?

 

[blhowes]

I come from a background that strongly taught separation from the world and from other churches. One of the reasons was to be 'biblical' and the other was, as I recall, that non-believers could see the distinctions between a biblical and non-biblical church. It seems one of the motivations of those in the ecumenical movement is to show to non-believers a unity within Christ's church. Do you think non-believers really take notice one way or the other? (I kind of doubt it)

 

[Jeremy]

Originally posted by R. Scott Clark

Originally posted by Jeremy
The Ecumenical documents, signed by Protestants leaders, have stated that Catholics are to be called our brothers and sisters in Christ.

How do you reconcile that with the command in scripture to have nothing to do with so called "brothers" who are idolaters? (I Cor. 5:11)

For what it's worth: http://public.csusm.edu/guests/rsclark/ECT.html

It helps if one distinguishes between the two kingdoms. The kingdom of God is the visible, institutional church. The civic kingdom is everything else. Secular (by this I mean only non-ecclesiastical, non-ministerial employment) work belongs to the civic kingdom.

This seems to be Paul's categorical distinction in 1 Cor 5:8-12:

I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people-- not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler- not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? (ESV)

The separation Paul has in mind is separation from those in the church who show themselves to be as he describes.

Admittedly, it is more complicated with devout Romanists. As your employers, they may do as they wish, as long as they don't ask you to participate in their idolatry (1 Cor 8). If you became tempted to join them, that would be another matter. Certainly you should pray for the graces of patience, humility, and when the time comes (should they ask why you don't do these things) the courage to point them to Jesus the only Mediator and his righteousness imputed freely to all who trust him only for their righteousness.

rsc

Thank you.

Great article! Thanks for the counsel. I shall study this more and respond better later.

-J

 

[Jeremy]

Originally posted by Saiph
How is watching your boss kiss an icon really that big of a deal ?

You are not participating by mere aqauintance of your occupation.

Remember Naaman in the temple of Rimnon ?

Just concerned that I am living in obedience to God here. Note how the verse says to stay away from those who are even "named" brothers. That was my point in bringing up the ecumenical documents.

 

[satz]

Hi Jeremy ...

I certainly don't want to be guilty of limiting the application of the verse, but i do think that its primary application is to church discipline of members in the same church.

I don't think it necessarily means that just because another professing christian who is sinning or holding to heresy is in the area you are not allowed to be there or work in the same enviroment, though obviously the kind of relationship you would have which such a person is controlled by this verse.

I also don't think the phrase 'and is called a brother' should be taken too literally. I think the verse is referring simply to those who make a credible profession of christianity. Simply because someone calls himself christian or some council declares a group of peopl 'christian' does not necessarily bring them into the realms of this verse.

Off course, if i am wrong i would appreciate correction.

[Edited on 11-3-2005 by satz]