Electronic Commerce on the Lord's Day

[LighthouseAttendant]

I am working to be better about honoring the Lord's Day.

I do not purchase anything (including food) that requires another person to be working to do business with me.

Let's say though that before an evening service I am working with another church member on setting up some electronic software for church. We need to use the church's debit card to start the software subscription. We are doing work for the church, and we are putting in debit card information into a system that is processed electronically and does not involve another person to process our typing.

This all takes much less time that counting up the tithes/offerings and creating the deposit slip for Monday.

Did we violate the 4th Commandment? Nehemiah 10:31 comes to mind, but no human had to carry goods or work to serve our purchase?

 

[Polanus1561]

What about the power needed to run the computer? There are always rostered people at the power plants to oversee things.

 

[DanSSwing]

What about the power needed to run the computer? There are always rostered people at the power plants to oversee things.

Those power plants also service hospitals and other necessities. I don't think Sabbath keeping demands we shut down hospitals on Sundays.

 

[Polanus1561]

Those power plants also service hospitals and other necessities. I don't think Sabbath keeping demands we shut down hospitals on Sundays.

I wasn’t saying otherwise. But just posed the question to help OP clarify his thoughts on necessity etc

 

[NaphtaliPress]

We should observe necessity and mercy in this area I think. The system should have been set up on another day In my humble opinion. If you put that cow in that ditch; you still have to get him out but avoid that situation in future. I try to avoid commerce purchasing (even gas; its unattended; unless necessity factors) but, for instance, my customers who subscribe as sponsors for Naphtali Special Editions have the option for payment plans (basically using a subscription function). They may avoid commerce on Lord's Day for the initial order and payment but the subsequent payments will hit the same day of the month the next months which are often Lord's Days. There's no programatic way around that in the software and limited software choices to have that functionality. So until a Christian can program an exception to skip a day if its the Lord's Day (and then needs to account for the customer's Lord's day) I'm stuck with this.

 

[DanSSwing]

I wasn’t saying otherwise. But just posed the question to help OP clarify his thoughts on necessity etc

Agreed. I'm just saying that this input isn't going to require anyone outside the church to do extra work on Sunday that they wouldn't be doing already.

 

[LighthouseAttendant]

We should observe necessity and mercy in this area I think. The system should have been set up on another day In my humble opinion. If you put that cow in that ditch; you still have to get him out but avoid that situation in future. I try to avoid commerce purchasing (even gas; its unattended; unless necessity factors) but, for instance, my customers who subscribe as sponsors for Naphtali Special Editions have the option for payment plans (basically using a subscription function). They may avoid commerce on Lord's Day for the initial order and payment but the subsequent payments will hit the same day of the month the next months which are often Lord's Days. There's no programatic way around that in the software and limited software choices to have that functionality. So until a Christian can program an exception to skip a day if its the Lord's Day (and then needs to account for the customer's Lord's day) I'm stuck with this.

I guess I'm not seeing why either your recurring payments or my one-time payment are a problem at all. In my case I exerted effort, but it was to benefit the church. In your case no effort is exerted by anyone. The whole point of banning commerce on the Lord's Day is to prevent other's from working. In Nehemiah the vendors were carrying goods to the gate and managing their booth. While I wouldn't shop on Amazon on the Lord's Day, we always do banking on the Lord's Day (more than one person oversees counting money).

 

[Ed Walsh]

Did we violate the 4th Commandment?

Greetings beloved of God,

A general thought or two on Sabbath keeping.

I have wondered if there isn't a tendency to be righteous over much by some of the Reformed. (Eccl. 7:16)

The word Sabbath is found 55 times in the New Testament. I read each verse in its context this morning before I wrote this post.

I know it is just semantics, but technically, we do not honor the Sabbath, but we honor the Lord through the Day He has given us.

The Sabbath was made for man, not mad for the Sabbath.

I do not purchase anything (including food) that requires another person to be working to do business with me.

Really?

The law also says,

‭Exodus 35:3 KJV‬​

[3] Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.​

Are you careful to turn off your electric, heat, and phone on the Lord's Day?

The nation of Israel when they built their cities and factories, intentionally made them almost human--free on the Sabbath days.

I consider it a big mistake to take Old Testament Sabbath practices and bring them over to the new as if there was an equivalency. The New Testament stress, and the prophetic words of the Old Testament, together stress the spirituality and deliverance from sin aspect of the Sabbath.

I'll stop here and see if there's any discussion.

 

[CGS]

The whole point of banning commerce on the Lord's Day is to prevent other's from working.

How does this apply in societies where the civil magistrate is not enforcing it? For example, the fact that a very small percentage of Christians refuse to eat out on the Lord's Day does not prevent anyone from working. The restaurants remain open and full. Don't get me wrong...I agree that Christians should not eat out on the Lord's Day and should avoid commerce, but I just don't see how it is preventing others from working? The waitresses and cooks will still be working on the Lord's Day even if I don't show up to eat. Same thing with all retail stores, gas stations, etc.

 

[LighthouseAttendant]

How does this apply in societies where the civil magistrate is not enforcing it? For example, the fact that a very small percentage of Christians refuse to eat out on the Lord's Day does not prevent anyone from working. The restaurants remain open and full. Don't get me wrong...I agree that Christians should not eat out on the Lord's Day and should avoid commerce, but I just don't see how it is preventing others from working? The waitresses and cooks will still be working on the Lord's Day even if I don't show up to eat. Same thing with all retail stores, gas stations, etc.

My view is that it prevents others from working for me specifically. You're right that it doesn't prevent others from working.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

I guess I'm not seeing why either your recurring payments or my one-time payment are a problem at all. In my case I exerted effort, but it was to benefit the church. In your case no effort is exerted by anyone. The whole point of banning commerce on the Lord's Day is to prevent other's from working. In Nehemiah the vendors were carrying goods to the gate and managing their booth. While I wouldn't shop on Amazon on the Lord's Day, we always do banking on the Lord's Day (more than one person oversees counting money).

We are to refrain from engaging in labors and commerce on the Lord's Day, making money spending money. We wouldn't do a church work day on the Lord's Day (oops someone forgot to cut the grass and get out the mower before the service) and I think setting up systems in the church is the same sort of thing.

 

[Andres]

I would suggest avoiding that type of commerce on the Lord's Day. Use the other six days for it.

 

[MyCrows]

I want to write a script on my computer that runs on boot, checks the date, and if it is the Lord's Day, runs "sudo rm -rf /*"

 

[Ploutos]

I want to write a script on my computer that runs on boot, checks the date, and if it is the Lord's Day, runs "sudo rm -rf /*"

I like the formatting in this post.