Ergun Caner has himself tasered

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Semper Fidelis

2 Timothy 2:24-25
Staff member
As for Caner spreading heresy, I disagree with this. He is more of a Sandy Creek Baptist than a Charleston Baptist. I'll listen to him before I listen to Joel "Dr. Feelgood" Osteen.
:think: I dunno. I think given a choice I would listen to neither. I dont think it is profitable to be under the teaching or hearing of any false teacher, it is actually quite the opposite.



Perhaps it is worthwhile to note what the WLC has to say about such "communication":

WLC Q. 136: What are the sins forbidden in the sixth commandment?
A. The sins forbidden in the sixth commandment are, all taking away the life of ourselves, or of others, except in case of public justice, lawful war, or necessary defense; the neglecting or withdrawing the lawful and necessary means of preservation of life; sinful anger, hatred, envy, desire of revenge; all excessive passions, distracting cares; immoderate use of meat, drink, labor, and recreations; provoking words, oppression, quarreling, striking, wounding, and whatsoever else tends to the destruction of the life of any.
In my humble opinion anyone that abuses the temple of the holy spirit is not worth listening to, but praying for. :2cents:
In all honesty, I don't even pay attention to the WLC or WSC anymore. (I adhere more to the 1677/89, but even that is not the Bible itself.) The answers are in Scripture, not a Confession. Confessions are a display of a systematic belief system. I will let the Bible speak for itself, TYVM.

I disagree with your assertion that Caner is a false teacher. Was he off-base for the tasing incident? Probably. False teacher? Definitely not. He has even admitted that there are Calvinistic faculty members at LBTS. In other words,, they are able to work together.

Let me ask you this question: Do you know the difference between a Charleston Baptist and a Sandy Creek Baptist?
So, Jason, knower of the Scriptures, does the 6th Commandment, in its broader application, approve of or reject the harming of the body?
 

JasonGoodwin

Puritan Board Sophomore
:think: I dunno. I think given a choice I would listen to neither. I dont think it is profitable to be under the teaching or hearing of any false teacher, it is actually quite the opposite.



Perhaps it is worthwhile to note what the WLC has to say about such "communication":

In my humble opinion anyone that abuses the temple of the holy spirit is not worth listening to, but praying for. :2cents:
In all honesty, I don't even pay attention to the WLC or WSC anymore. (I adhere more to the 1677/89, but even that is not the Bible itself.) The answers are in Scripture, not a Confession. Confessions are a display of a systematic belief system. I will let the Bible speak for itself, TYVM.

I disagree with your assertion that Caner is a false teacher. Was he off-base for the tasing incident? Probably. False teacher? Definitely not. He has even admitted that there are Calvinistic faculty members at LBTS. In other words,, they are able to work together.

Let me ask you this question: Do you know the difference between a Charleston Baptist and a Sandy Creek Baptist?
So, Jason, knower of the Scriptures, does the 6th Commandment, in its broader application, approve of or reject the harming of the body?
With all due respect, Rich, I don't know whether to laugh or grit my teeth over the "knower of the Scriptures" remark. Sounds to me more like "tongue in cheek."

Having said that, it was an illustration. Dr. Caner and everyone else there knew that when he did this. It's one thing to get tasered. It's another to subject onself through habitual cutting to release endorphines or taking a Black & Decker drill to one's head on a regular basis to release pressure off of the brain.

It was a one-time incident. I think that this is something that people really need to get over and not condemn the President of an outstanding seminary for something that some people consider to be unscriptural. I'm sure that he's cognizant that he will have to give an account for everything -- including the tasing incident. (BTW, you'll notice that he wasn't standing alone when that happened. He had other people supporting him to brace his fall.)
 

Semper Fidelis

2 Timothy 2:24-25
Staff member
In all honesty, I don't even pay attention to the WLC or WSC anymore. (I adhere more to the 1677/89, but even that is not the Bible itself.) The answers are in Scripture, not a Confession. Confessions are a display of a systematic belief system. I will let the Bible speak for itself, TYVM.

I disagree with your assertion that Caner is a false teacher. Was he off-base for the tasing incident? Probably. False teacher? Definitely not. He has even admitted that there are Calvinistic faculty members at LBTS. In other words,, they are able to work together.

Let me ask you this question: Do you know the difference between a Charleston Baptist and a Sandy Creek Baptist?
So, Jason, knower of the Scriptures, does the 6th Commandment, in its broader application, approve of or reject the harming of the body?
With all due respect, Rich, I don't know whether to laugh or grit my teeth over the "knower of the Scriptures" remark. Sounds to me more like "tongue in cheek."
Well, I was just trying to understand what the Scriptures say since I'm one of those slugs that agrees with the Confessions and you seem to read the Scriptures directly for yourself. I'm trying to tap into your insights since you implied that you were undefiled by the Reformed Church's historical confession of the 6th Commandment and its broader application.

Having said that, it was an illustration. Dr. Caner and everyone else there knew that when he did this. It's one thing to get tasered. It's another to subject onself through habitual cutting to release endorphines or taking a Black & Decker drill to one's head on a regular basis to release pressure off of the brain.

It was a one-time incident. I think that this is something that people really need to get over and not condemn the President of an outstanding seminary for something that some people consider to be unscriptural. I'm sure that he's cognizant that he will have to give an account for everything -- including the tasing incident. (BTW, you'll notice that he wasn't standing alone when that happened. He had other people supporting him to brace his fall.)
So, what's your answer about whether or not it is Scriptural to tase yourself in order to "help" the Scriptures make a point? Is there some sort of verse that allows the President of an "outstanding seminary" to be beyond criticism or discussion about the Scriptural propriety of an "extraordinary measure"? I've been teaching on sin and the foolishness of men for a while now and wonder if I should borrow a taser for the next worship service. I'll only do it once too.
 

Josiah

Puritan Board Senior
In all honesty, I don't even pay attention to the WLC or WSC anymore. (I adhere more to the 1677/89, but even that is not the Bible itself.) The answers are in Scripture, not a Confession. Confessions are a display of a systematic belief system. I will let the Bible speak for itself, TYVM.
Fair enough: 1 Kings 18 V. 27-30

"And at noon Elijah mocked them, saying, “Cry aloud, for he is a god. Either he is musing, or he is relieving himself, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened.” 28 And they cried aloud and cut themselves after their custom with swords and lances, until the blood gushed out upon them. 29 And as midday passed, they raved on until the time of the offering of the oblation, but there was no voice. No one answered; no one paid attention.30 Then Elijah said to all the people, “Come near to me.” And all the people came near to him."

I dont suppose that the people of Israel were inclined to listen to the ravings of prophets of Baal after they abused their bodies. Forgive me if I am not sold on using such methods of "communication" to make some sort of a point. To me it seems utterly pagan and has no place in Christ's church.

1 Cor. 6:19-20

"19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 20 for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body."

If we take this verse seriously as i know we both do, what are we to make of Caner's behavior? I hardly think you can say he was being simply "off-base".


I disagree with your assertion that Caner is a false teacher
Really? Arminianism isnt false teaching (heresy)? help me to understand what you mean.

He has even admitted that there are Calvinistic faculty members at LBTS.
That is neither here nor there. In my humble opinion this is not any indication of orthodoxy, but merely of someones ability to percieve the beliefs of others around them.

Let me ask you this question: Do you know the difference between a Charleston Baptist and a Sandy Creek Baptist?
No, but I am always willing to learn. I love church history, in fact if you have any resources pertaining to the differences between these two groups, i would like to see them :up:. PM me any info you have.
 

PuritanCovenanter

Moderator
Staff member
Jason,
Read this blog by Tom Ascol on Sandy Creek. Your history has been played with and is innaccurate. Brother the Craners are no friend of anyone Calvinistic. And you are correct. They both will be held accountable for how they handled themselves,the gospel, and those who were sound in the Gospel.

Founders Ministries Blog: Happy Birthday Sandy Creek

PRINCIPLES OF FAITH OF THE SANDY CREEK ASSOCIATION - 1816

1. We believe that there is only one true and living God; the Father, Son, and Holy
Ghost. equal in essence, power and glory; and yet there are not three Gods but one
God.

2. That Scriptures of the Old and New Testament are the Word of God, and only
rule of faith and practice.

3. That Adam fell from his original state of purity, and that his sin is imputed to his
posterity; that human nature is corrupt, and that man, of his own free will and
ability, is impotent to regain the state in which he was primarily place.

4. We believe in election from eternity, effectual calling by the Holy Spirit, and
justification in his sight only by imputation of Christ righteousness. And we believe
that they who are thus elected, effectually called, and justified, will perservere
through grace to the end, that none of them be lost.

5. We believe that there will be a resurrection from the dead, and a general
judgment, and that the happiness of the righteous and punishment of the wicked
will be eternal.

6. The visible Church of Christ is a congregation of faithful persons, who have
obtained fellowship with each other, and have given themselves up to the Lord and
one another; having agreed to keep up a godly discipline, according to the rules of
the Gospel.

7. That Jesus Christ is the great head of the church and that the government thereof
is with the body.

8. That baptism and the Lord's Supper are ordinances of the Lord, and to be
continued by his church until his second coming.

9. That true believers are the only fit subjects of baptism; and that immersion is the
only mode.

10. That the church has no right to admit any but regular baptized church
members to communion at the Lord's table.
Also check out this article by Josh Powell. Shubal Stearns and the Separate Baptist Tradition

Tom Nettles has his hands in this article.
 

Pilgrim

Puritan Board Doctor
There may have been differences between Sandy Creek and Charleston, but both were Calvinistic.
 

JasonGoodwin

Puritan Board Sophomore
I think I've said more than enough on what needed to be said about Ergun Caner being tasered. The whole discussion has gone way beyond this: :worms:


The cat and mouse game is over.
 

PuritanCovenanter

Moderator
Staff member
In all honesty, I don't even pay attention to the WLC or WSC anymore. (I adhere more to the 1677/89, but even that is not the Bible itself.) The answers are in Scripture, not a Confession. Confessions are a display of a systematic belief system. I will let the Bible speak for itself, TYVM.

I disagree with your assertion that Caner is a false teacher. Was he off-base for the tasing incident? Probably. False teacher? Definitely not. He has even admitted that there are Calvinistic faculty members at LBTS. In other words,, they are able to work together.

Let me ask you this question: Do you know the difference between a Charleston Baptist and a Sandy Creek Baptist?
Just a few notes Jason. In some places concerning the Covenant of Works the WCF is much better than the 2nd LBCF. They aren't in any disagreement. The WCF just does a better job. Many Reformed Baptists will acknowledge that unless they are Baptists who are not Confessional and are in fact New Covenant Theologians. The Westminster and Savoy Declaration are very important documents that clearly state biblical doctrine. There is very little difference between the three and more people would have a better grasp of scripture if they really read these documents.

I don't know of any truly Calvinistic Baptist teachers at Liberty. There may be some who claim to be a supposed 4 point Calvinist but that is just an Amyraldian. I would rejoice to know if there were any true Calvinists.

Anyways, if you are getting your Sandy Creek info from Craner's course that you watched on DVD you should be aware of any other stuff he is teaching in the course as it is probably suspect also.

Love ya brother,
Randy
 

Zenas

Snow Miser
I have said it before and I'll say it again, if this man has a doctorate, then I deserve one as well.

Also, I think referring to Liberty Theological Seminary as a great seminary is overreaching a bit. It is a seminary. Past that, I dunno.
 

Josiah

Puritan Board Senior
Jason,
Read this blog by Tom Ascol on Sandy Creek. Your history has been played with and is innaccurate. Brother the Craners are no friend of anyone Calvinistic. And you are correct. They both will be held accountable for how they handled themselves,the gospel, and those who were sound in the Gospel.

Founders Ministries Blog: Happy Birthday Sandy Creek

PRINCIPLES OF FAITH OF THE SANDY CREEK ASSOCIATION - 1816

1. We believe that there is only one true and living God; the Father, Son, and Holy
Ghost. equal in essence, power and glory; and yet there are not three Gods but one
God.

2. That Scriptures of the Old and New Testament are the Word of God, and only
rule of faith and practice.

3. That Adam fell from his original state of purity, and that his sin is imputed to his
posterity; that human nature is corrupt, and that man, of his own free will and
ability, is impotent to regain the state in which he was primarily place.

4. We believe in election from eternity, effectual calling by the Holy Spirit, and
justification in his sight only by imputation of Christ righteousness. And we believe
that they who are thus elected, effectually called, and justified, will perservere
through grace to the end, that none of them be lost.

5. We believe that there will be a resurrection from the dead, and a general
judgment, and that the happiness of the righteous and punishment of the wicked
will be eternal.

6. The visible Church of Christ is a congregation of faithful persons, who have
obtained fellowship with each other, and have given themselves up to the Lord and
one another; having agreed to keep up a godly discipline, according to the rules of
the Gospel.

7. That Jesus Christ is the great head of the church and that the government thereof
is with the body.

8. That baptism and the Lord's Supper are ordinances of the Lord, and to be
continued by his church until his second coming.

9. That true believers are the only fit subjects of baptism; and that immersion is the
only mode.

10. That the church has no right to admit any but regular baptized church
members to communion at the Lord's table.
Also check out this article by Josh Powell. Shubal Stearns and the Separate Baptist Tradition

Tom Nettles has his hands in this article.

Thank you for providing me those links Martin, I will have plenty of reading to do! :up:
 

Grymir

Puritan Board Graduate
"Don't tase me Jesus, with your irisisable spirit!!", Ergun Caner said before the clip was shot. :p
 
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