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I'm reading Heppe's Reformed Dogmatics and on page 422 he says that Eve was a virgin up through the fall of man.
Is this common knowledge and can we necessarily conclude this?
It never ceases to amaze me the kind of "angels dancing on the head of a pin" discussions we get into here.
22And Jehovah God buildeth up the rib which He hath taken out of the man into a woman, and bringeth her in unto the man;
23and the man saith, `This [is] the [proper] step! bone of my bone, and flesh of my flesh!' for this it is called Woman, for from a man hath this been taken;
24therefore doth a man leave his father and his mother, and hath cleaved unto his wife, and they have become one flesh.
25And they are both of them naked, the man and his wife, and they are not ashamed of themselves.
I'm reading Heppe's Reformed Dogmatics and on page 422 he says that Eve was a virgin up through the fall of man.
Is this common knowledge and can we necessarily conclude this?
I have no idea how he could know this. What does he use to make a dogmatic statement regarding her virginity?
Incidentally, I wouldn't necessarily be convinced that simply because it notes Adam knowing her after the Fall and her conception of Cain that this necessarily proves the point. Jewish historical narrative is not always presented chronologically.
Although it would be that she had not had a child before the fall, it would not have to be true that she was a virgin.
They were already instucted to be fruitful and multiply,and it sounds as if Adam was very happy to see Eve
If the fall had not happened as of Gen 1:31, why would this writer suggest that Adam could not/or did not perform the duties of a husband? Why even speculate on this?
Obviously if Eve conceived before the fall," All" would not have died in Adam.
Rom5:12. 1Cor 15:22.
I'm reading Heppe's Reformed Dogmatics and on page 422 he says that Eve was a virgin up through the fall of man.
Is this common knowledge and can we necessarily conclude this?
I have no idea how he could know this. What does he use to make a dogmatic statement regarding her virginity?
Incidentally, I wouldn't necessarily be convinced that simply because it notes Adam knowing her after the Fall and her conception of Cain that this necessarily proves the point. Jewish historical narrative is not always presented chronologically.
Heppe actually has a really good work where he finds what everyone says on every topic. He takes all of those things that have been written on a topic and picks out the best quotes from among them. It is a really good resource for Reformed doctrine. However, this point is kind of off. This particular thought Heppe is quoting Polan (VI, 13). He says as point 4 of an argument, "As destruction was imported into the world through a virgin (for when Eve became the cause of transgression to herman, she was still a virgin, not yet known by Adam), so the salvation of the world had to be born by the ministry of a virgin."
Anthony,
It's my opinion that the Fall happened pretty fast. It's possible that Adam and Eve knew each other pre-Fall but I also don't think it's impossible that they did not.
The interesting thing would be that one would assume that, if they did, that she would surely conceive as menstration is a curse of the Fall. It never ceases to amaze me the kind of "angels dancing on the head of a pin" discussions we get into here.
I think the fall was only a few hours after Eve was created.
I don't think menstration is a curse of the fall as someone else said above.
I don't think that immediate intimacy of each being that was created is necessarily required. When for example, the dog or the bird or fish were created, they didn't necessarily have to have intimacy right after they were created. Sex is only a part of life, not the principle first and most important part of it. This being the case and that in my opinion they fell into sin within a few hours of their creation, I conclude that they united after the fall.
in my opinion
Of course, that does raise the question that if Cain was conceived pre-Fall then he wouldn't be conceived in sin.
I'm reading Heppe's Reformed Dogmatics and on page 422 he says that Eve was a virgin up through the fall of man.
Is this common knowledge and can we necessarily conclude this?
I'm reading Heppe's Reformed Dogmatics and on page 422 he says that Eve was a virgin up through the fall of man.
Is this common knowledge and can we necessarily conclude this?
That sounds like a Popish idea that sex is evil.
I'm reading Heppe's Reformed Dogmatics and on page 422 he says that Eve was a virgin up through the fall of man.
Is this common knowledge and can we necessarily conclude this?
That sounds like a Popish idea that sex is evil.
A popish idea would be that Eve had no sex after the fall as well like Mary.
Heppe believes she had sex after the fall.
That sounds like a Popish idea that sex is evil.
A popish idea would be that Eve had no sex after the fall as well like Mary.
Heppe believes she had sex after the fall.
But don't the Papists believe that sex always involves sin? And did not even some of the church fathers think this?
A popish idea would be that Eve had no sex after the fall as well like Mary.
Heppe believes she had sex after the fall.
But don't the Papists believe that sex always involves sin? And did not even some of the church fathers think this?
First, the RCC believes all sex must be PiV.
Secondly, all sexual acts must be equally open to conception.
What does PIV mean? There was certainly a time, in Ireland at least, when the Romanists believed it was wrong to have sex in marriage unless you were doing it to have children.
But don't the Papists believe that sex always involves sin? And did not even some of the church fathers think this?
First, the RCC believes all sex must be PiV.
Secondly, all sexual acts must be equally open to conception.
What does PIV mean? There was certainly a time, in Ireland at least, when the Romanists believed it was wrong to have sex in marriage unless you were doing it to have children.
PiV = sexual intercourse. I abbreviated human body parts. I = in.
Did sex before the Fall always result in conception? I think even periodic infertility is a result of the Fall, so I would have to say yes. Did Cain have to be conceived in sin? If so, then it seems Eve was a virgin.