Where do folks land on having an afternoon/evening worship service?
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I think I was bifurcating them basing opitmal on the fourth commandment requirements and suggested as general patterns in Scripture.How would you define the distinction between suggested and optimal?
I voted "something Scripture suggests is normal to have." I'm open to being shown that it's commanded, I just don't know, and not sure I've heard it taught. I do believe that if a church has an evening service its members are obligated to attend (and I hope delighted to do so). (Hey does that imply commanded??) The first thought that came to mind was Paul preaching into the night when the young man fell from the window.
Yes, I do believe Scripture indicates strongly by this that two services should be had on the Lord’s day. And logically, musing on it, it seems whether or not to do so would fall under the RPW, so that it should be seen as a command: to either do so, or not do so. Two services are had uniformly across the FC(C), I’ll ask today about this.To cut a long story short, it was often argued that the moral principle set forth in the morning and evening sacrifices meant that we should have morning and evening services, just as we have personal devotions twice a day (see WCF 19.3).
Thankfully, my place has an evening service, though it is hard work convincing people that they need to go to church twice on the Lord's Day.
Jealous, frankly. Although I'd be more jealous if the meal was weekly. Is there a reason you are opposed to the fellowship meal other than preference? In my socially awkward experience a meal is the easiest and most efficient way to bond with people. I'm open to the possibility that I'm weird on this matter. But I've often wished that the good ol' Dutch people I hang out with on the Lord's Day would do church lunches between services instead of running home for a couple hours and coming right back again anyway. Seems like the perfect time for some great fellowship over communal soup.My church has evening service every other Lord's Day; the others are used by a fellowship meal (can't stand it, myself) and a prayer meeting afterwards (only reason I sit through a meal).
What about communal fried chicken and cornbread?Seems like the perfect time for some great fellowship over communal soup.
While I would be extra on board with that, the Dutch...........What about communal fried chicken and cornbread?
What about a 3 hour nap in between services? That is not private worship but it is rest as commanded.In most circumstances this would not even be a question "must I" except due to our low view of the means of grace. If we amend our view of worship to be nothing less than God's blessed presence where he condescends to meet with us, (Exodus 25:9&22, Psalm 100:2, Hebrews 12:22ff.) then another opportunity to gather is not merely obligatory but a privilege.
We also need to have a higher view of the Christian Sabbath. According to the Westminster Confessions, Catechisms and Directory of Worship, the whole Lord's Day is to be occupied in private and public acts of worship. Whether or not we have an evening service is not about whether we are to be occupied in more or less worship (quantitatively) for when not occupied in public worship we are to be worshipping nonetheless. So personally I have less of a concern about whether or not we hold another service as to whether the day is being upheld by the family in those hours not occupied by the public gathering of the saints.
Seriously? Ex 29:38-42 specifies morning and evening sacrifices every day, 365 days a year, in perpetuity. We all know that a “sacrifice” is just another way of saying “full blown worship service.” Further, Lev 9:6-13, elaborates that the fire on the altar is to be kept burning, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, in perpetuity. Numbers 28 is careful to note that this includes the Sabbath (no sabbathing from offering sacrifices on the Sabbath)… all of this clearly means that in the New Covenant, despite the fact that we generally claim that the Old Covenant ceremonial and civil laws have been fulfilled in the person and work of Christ, we are nonetheless obligated to conduct worship services/sacrifices twice (morning and evening - two morning services definitely do not count) each Lord’s Day though we are not obligated to hold morning and evening services/sacrifices the other 6 days of the week.For those speaking/voting for the Scriptural command of an evening service, please can you provide references for such.
Yes, seriously - I have never before considered evening services as being mandated by Scripture. Thank you.Seriously? Ex 29:38-42 species morning and evening sacrifices every day, 365 days a year, in perpetuity. Further, Lev 9:6-13, elaborates that the fire on the altar is to be kept burning, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, in perpetuity. Numbers 28 is careful to note that this includes the Sabbath (no sabbathing from offering sacrifices on the Sabbath)… all of this clearly means that in the New Covenant, despite the Old Covenant ceremonial and civil laws having been fulfilled, we are obligated to conduct worship services twice (morning and evening - two morning services definitely do not count) each Lord’s Day.
To cut a long story short, it was often argued that the moral principle set forth in the morning and evening sacrifices meant that we should have morning and evening services, just as we have personal devotions twice a day (see WCF 19.3).
Thankfully, my place has an evening service, though it is hard work convincing people that they need to go to church twice on the Lord's Day.
Seriously? Ex 29:38-42 species morning and evening sacrifices every day, 365 days a year, in perpetuity. Further, Lev 9:6-13, elaborates that the fire on the altar is to be kept burning, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, in perpetuity. Numbers 28 is careful to note that this includes the Sabbath (no sabbathing from offering sacrifices on the Sabbath)… all of this clearly means that in the New Covenant, despite the fact that we generally claim that the Old Covenant ceremonial and civil laws have been fulfilled in the person and work of Christ, we are nonetheless obligated to conduct worship services twice (morning and evening - two morning services definitely do not count) each Lord’s Day.
I'm curious about these posts and the interesting questions that they raise. Daniel, I assume from your post that you would say we have a moral duty to have a time of personal worship twice a day every day? What about family worship? What would you say, Ben? That is, if you aren't being sardonic!Yes, seriously - I have never before considered evening services as being mandated by Scripture. Thank you.
I find it interesting that in the same manner you make the argument about these sacrifices to support Lord’s day church services being morning and evening you also make the point about the sacrifices being every single day in perpetuity, but clearly this isn’t applied in the same manner.
Unless one has a providential reason to not get much sleep the night before, a 3 hour nap seems like slothfulness. When the 4th commandment speaks of a day of rest, it is a rest from our normal labors and recreations so we might give the whole day to the worship of the living God.What about a 3 hour nap in between services? That is not private worship but it is rest as commanded.
is not the Sabbath given for (but not only for) rest from the Gen 3 curse of work? Such a gracious gift. If someone is feeling burdened from the 5-6 day work cycle (or Saturday being used for family recreation), and wants to utilise the sabbath as a day of physical rest (resting more than the other days)… is that idleness? (Ok, I admit my 3 hour example is excessive, and if that was the point of contention, sure forget about it; but as an aside I won’t set a limit on how much someone needs rest)Unless one has a providential reason to not get much sleep the night before, a 3 hour nap seems like slothfulness. When the 4th commandment speaks of a day of rest, it is a rest from our normal labors and recreations so we might give the whole day to the worship of the living God.
The meal is always awkward, socially as well as logistically (before the pandemic it was a sort of potluck, which is bad for everyone who doesn't like potato salad; since then it's been "everyone bring his own lunch," and people who forget/neglect to bring something moon around while everyone else eats food of various amount and quality). Normally the same little groups form--it's not that fellow-shippy; more like a high school lunch room, and it's always far too long.Jealous, frankly. Although I'd be more jealous if the meal was weekly. Is there a reason you are opposed to the fellowship meal other than preference? In my socially awkward experience a meal is the easiest and most efficient way to bond with people. I'm open to the possibility that I'm weird on this matter. But I've often wished that the good ol' Dutch people I hang out with on the Lord's Day would do church lunches between services instead of running home for a couple hours and coming right back again anyway. Seems like the perfect time for some great fellowship over communal soup.