Where do folks land on having an afternoon/evening worship service?
Evening worship service poll (required, optimal, not required, etc.)
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One can actually agree with optimal and suggested by scripture but I set the vote for one option.
Jake
Puritan Board Senior
I think there is some amount of suggestion of evening worship (pattern of morning/evening sacrifices, keeping of the whole Sabbath Day, seeing it practiced in Acts 20) that would make it a very strong suggestion, but not a requirement.
I'm looking forward to following the responses. My church does have evening worship about 90% of Lord's Days. I'd like to see us have it 100% of the time, and to see it better attended. I think there are some who would rather see us do away with it, but thankfully we have elders who are dedicated to keeping the practice.
I'm looking forward to following the responses. My church does have evening worship about 90% of Lord's Days. I'd like to see us have it 100% of the time, and to see it better attended. I think there are some who would rather see us do away with it, but thankfully we have elders who are dedicated to keeping the practice.
I voted "something Scripture suggests is normal to have." I'm open to being shown that it's commanded, I just don't know, and not sure I've heard it taught. I do believe that if a church has an evening service its members are obligated to attend (and I hope delighted to do so). (Hey does that imply commanded??) The first thought that came to mind was Paul preaching into the night when the young man fell from the window.
I think I was bifurcating them basing opitmal on the fourth commandment requirements and suggested as general patterns in Scripture.
Reformed Covenanter
Cancelled Commissioner
To cut a long story short, it was often argued that the moral principle set forth in the morning and evening sacrifices meant that we should have morning and evening services, just as we have personal devotions twice a day (see WCF 19.3).
Thankfully, my place has an evening service, though it is hard work convincing people that they need to go to church twice on the Lord's Day.
Ben Zartman
Puritan Board Junior
My church has evening service every other Lord's Day; the others are used by a fellowship meal (can't stand it, myself) and a prayer meeting afterwards (only reason I sit through a meal). I'd rather see evening service every week, but the thought is that a Lord's Day prayer meeting can be compulsory, while a mid-week PM cannot, and they want to encourage corporate prayer.
As far as I'm concerned, the entire day belongs to God--what better way to spend it than in worship and attending the preaching both at the beginning and the end?
As far as I'm concerned, the entire day belongs to God--what better way to spend it than in worship and attending the preaching both at the beginning and the end?
Grant
Puritan Board Graduate
I voted for Suggested. My PCA church back in Mississippi has an evening service each week. Here in China we only have a morning service. The preaching here in our church in Beijing is not well trained (to put it very mildly), so we always look forward to streaming a conservative exegetical sermon during the evenings (as the internet allows at least).
A good short read for a “suggested” case in favor of a second Evening Public Worship service:
gospelreformation.net
A good short read for a “suggested” case in favor of a second Evening Public Worship service:
A Case for Evening Worship | Gospel Reformation Network
The evening service has fallen on hard times, indeed. In fact, it is now unusual for churches to hold two worship services on the Lord’s Day.[1] Even where two…
gospelreformation.net
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Yes, I do believe Scripture indicates strongly by this that two services should be had on the Lord’s day. And logically, musing on it, it seems whether or not to do so would fall under the RPW, so that it should be seen as a command: to either do so, or not do so. Two services are had uniformly across the FC(C), I’ll ask today about this.
alexanderjames
Puritan Board Sophomore
For those speaking/voting for the Scriptural command of an evening service, please can you provide references for such.
Scynne
Puritan Board Freshman
Jealous, frankly. Although I'd be more jealous if the meal was weekly. Is there a reason you are opposed to the fellowship meal other than preference? In my socially awkward experience a meal is the easiest and most efficient way to bond with people. I'm open to the possibility that I'm weird on this matter. But I've often wished that the good ol' Dutch people I hang out with on the Lord's Day would do church lunches between services instead of running home for a couple hours and coming right back again anyway. Seems like the perfect time for some great fellowship over communal soup.
What about communal fried chicken and cornbread?
Certainly beneficial and I believe suggested in scripture as the ideal. However, it is not the ideal which trumps all other concerns. Many of our ministers are bivocational working 40+ hours a week in a tent making job. Further, folks often live a considerable distance from the meeting place. It’s not always feasible, but certainly something worth striving for.
Poimen
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
In most circumstances this would not even be a question "must I" except due to our low view of the means of grace. If we amend our view of worship to be nothing less than God's blessed presence where he condescends to meet with us, (Exodus 25:9&22, Psalm 100:2, Hebrews 12:22ff.) then another opportunity to gather is not merely obligatory but a privilege.
We also need to have a higher view of the Christian Sabbath. According to the Westminster Confessions, Catechisms and Directory of Worship, the whole Lord's Day is to be occupied in private and public acts of worship. Whether or not we have an evening service is not about whether we are to be occupied in more or less worship (quantitatively) for when not occupied in public worship we are to be worshipping nonetheless. So personally I have less of a concern about whether or not we hold another service as to whether the day is being upheld by the family in those hours not occupied by the public gathering of the saints.
We also need to have a higher view of the Christian Sabbath. According to the Westminster Confessions, Catechisms and Directory of Worship, the whole Lord's Day is to be occupied in private and public acts of worship. Whether or not we have an evening service is not about whether we are to be occupied in more or less worship (quantitatively) for when not occupied in public worship we are to be worshipping nonetheless. So personally I have less of a concern about whether or not we hold another service as to whether the day is being upheld by the family in those hours not occupied by the public gathering of the saints.
Scynne
Puritan Board Freshman
While I would be extra on board with that, the Dutch...........What about communal fried chicken and cornbread?
Polanus1561
Puritan Board Junior
What about a 3 hour nap in between services? That is not private worship but it is rest as commanded.
SolaScriptura
Puritanboard Brimstone
Seriously? Ex 29:38-42 specifies morning and evening sacrifices every day, 365 days a year, in perpetuity. We all know that a “sacrifice” is just another way of saying “full blown worship service.” Further, Lev 9:6-13, elaborates that the fire on the altar is to be kept burning, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, in perpetuity. Numbers 28 is careful to note that this includes the Sabbath (no sabbathing from offering sacrifices on the Sabbath)… all of this clearly means that in the New Covenant, despite the fact that we generally claim that the Old Covenant ceremonial and civil laws have been fulfilled in the person and work of Christ, we are nonetheless obligated to conduct worship services/sacrifices twice (morning and evening - two morning services definitely do not count) each Lord’s Day though we are not obligated to hold morning and evening services/sacrifices the other 6 days of the week.
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alexanderjames
Puritan Board Sophomore
Yes, seriously - I have never before considered evening services as being mandated by Scripture. Thank you.
I find it interesting that in the same manner you make the argument about these sacrifices to support Lord’s day church services being morning and evening you also make the point about the sacrifices being every single day in perpetuity, but clearly this isn’t applied in the same manner.
Zach
Puritan Board Senior
I'm curious about these posts and the interesting questions that they raise. Daniel, I assume from your post that you would say we have a moral duty to have a time of personal worship twice a day every day? What about family worship? What would you say, Ben? That is, if you aren't being sardonic!
LadyCalvinist
Puritan Board Junior
I became born again because a PCA church had an evening service. It was Palm Sunday and I thought I really ought to go to a service. But I had gotten up very late and missed the morning service. Then I remembered than a PCA church that I had briefly gone to a few years ago, had an evening service. As I walked to the sanctuary, I suddenly thought, "This is where I belong." It turned out to be the turning point in my spiritual life. I had spent 8 years going to from (liberal) church to liberal church in search of something. That night I heard a sermon that answered some question I had. So, yes, I am strongly in favor of evening service.
As to how it should be done, I have seen several different ways. My PCA had an evening service, but an RPCNA church I know used to have Sunday School, worship, then lunch together, then an afternoon service. I don't think it matters much how it is done as long as it is done.
As to how it should be done, I have seen several different ways. My PCA had an evening service, but an RPCNA church I know used to have Sunday School, worship, then lunch together, then an afternoon service. I don't think it matters much how it is done as long as it is done.
I chose that it is suggested as ideal in Scripture based on the patterns and examples we find. It has also been a historical practice of Reformed churches to have two services. Here is an article giving background of and reasons to retain or institute an evening service.
www.reformation21.org
Short videos noting the problem of the lack of the evening service
The Forgotten Gift of Evening Worship
Morning and evening, the Sabbath is a delight.
Short videos noting the problem of the lack of the evening service
therussellhome
Puritan Board Freshman
I grew up in a church that had evening services that slowly dwindled away. My church now (different state, upgrade to PCA) doesn't have an evening service. I make due with extended family worship.
I'm thankful for this post as it has challenged my "personal preference" approach to Sunday evening worship.
I'm thankful for this post as it has challenged my "personal preference" approach to Sunday evening worship.
Andres
Puritan Board Doctor
Unless one has a providential reason to not get much sleep the night before, a 3 hour nap seems like slothfulness. When the 4th commandment speaks of a day of rest, it is a rest from our normal labors and recreations so we might give the whole day to the worship of the living God.
Andres
Puritan Board Doctor
It is the Lord’s Day, not just the Lord’s morning. If we are to give the whole day to worship, I believe that sessions place undue burdens on people by not having a structured day with at least two worship services. If it’s just morning worship and the corporate aspect is done by noon, that is a large portion of the rest of the day to expect people to rightly hallow.
Polanus1561
Puritan Board Junior
is not the Sabbath given for (but not only for) rest from the Gen 3 curse of work? Such a gracious gift. If someone is feeling burdened from the 5-6 day work cycle (or Saturday being used for family recreation), and wants to utilise the sabbath as a day of physical rest (resting more than the other days)… is that idleness? (Ok, I admit my 3 hour example is excessive, and if that was the point of contention, sure forget about it; but as an aside I won’t set a limit on how much someone needs rest)
edit: Sabbath made for man? Sabbath as a time of restoration (see miracles of Jesus) from the effects of post-fall world? (man with withered hand; getting grain on the Sabbath as it was needed) Sabbath as a day for physical and spiritual health?
It is practically good to sleep on Saturday night. Great habit. But I don’t think it’s a problem if this man rests more on Sunday physically, (vs other days; of course mainly due to it not being a work day and he can afford to rest in solitude) in times not in worship. But of course we can talk about how it looks like. E.g he sleeps as his young children naps, for example. My example is not someone who stayed up all night on Saturday playing videogames and uses Sunday to compensate. My example is a man who enjoys the gift of rest on a Sunday along with corporate worship.
And if you may grant: Is there a difference between someone who does sleep 3 hours on a Sunday noon between services, and someone who sleeps 3 hours earlier on a Sunday night to end the day?
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Ben Zartman
Puritan Board Junior
The meal is always awkward, socially as well as logistically (before the pandemic it was a sort of potluck, which is bad for everyone who doesn't like potato salad; since then it's been "everyone bring his own lunch," and people who forget/neglect to bring something moon around while everyone else eats food of various amount and quality). Normally the same little groups form--it's not that fellow-shippy; more like a high school lunch room, and it's always far too long.
A better model, and one that will bring you out of your shell, is if every Lord's Day between services you invite someone to your home to eat with you. This is our custom on many two-service Sundays, and it allows us to properly commune with a family or some singles from the church. They are guests in our home, so we chat, we eat, we fellowship: it's hospitable, it's undistracted, and afterwards we return to church together.
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