Exclusive psalmody in a hymn singing church

Discussion in 'A capella Exclusive Psalmody' started by Andrew David Short, Aug 14, 2019.

  1. Edward

    Edward Puritan Board Doctor

    Sure if they pay $15 (hardback), $70 (leather), or $250 (digital edition with PDFs). Contains 428 Hymns to go along with the Psalms.

    Trinity Psalter from the PCA, on the other hand, is only $8.50 in paperback.
     
  2. Tom Hart

    Tom Hart Puritan Board Junior

    You offend people by not offering sinful worship. Naturally. This is something you have to live with. You can't rule their hearts.

    Remind yourself to look to your own sins before those of your brothers and sisters.

    Do not be antagonistic, do not be argumentative. They will think you extreme, radical, even ridiculous. Show grace, and perhaps they will come to see that they are wrong about you. And pray for them!
     
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  3. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    I don't know; see what Ed said.
     
  4. Andrew David Short

    Andrew David Short Puritan Board Freshman

    As I state repeatedly to them I am no better I am not looking down on everyone I deserve to burn in hell I know pride is evil
     
  5. jwithnell

    jwithnell Moderator Staff Member

    I had thought about making a similar point, but more along the lines of who is culpable with RPW -- the elders who decide on the service or the laity that follows their lead? I have unexpectedly found myself in services with interpretive dance or drama, (PCA). I've been a part of congregations that withhold baptism and membership from infants. Should one close her eyes and flap her arms to drown out the wrongful worship?

    Thanks for taking the bullets, brother :)
     
  6. Tom Hart

    Tom Hart Puritan Board Junior

    I hope I don't sound as though I'm accusing you. I'm just speaking from personal experience. It is a struggle for me, often, when everyone around me has no qualms about repeating the same inane chorus half a dozen times. I have to tell myself, "I was there, too, not so long ago."
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  7. Andrew David Short

    Andrew David Short Puritan Board Freshman

    No i am assuring you that I hear you
    Are you Korean
     
  8. Henry Hall

    Henry Hall Puritan Board Freshman

    I do, at low volume, using a phone app Psalter.
     
  9. Tom Hart

    Tom Hart Puritan Board Junior

    Canadian, living and working in Korea, married to a Korean, and with a half-Korean toddler.

    I have suffered the inconvenience of becoming convinced of the RPW after I'd moved to South Korea! There are not many here who've heard of it.
     
  10. Ryan&Amber2013

    Ryan&Amber2013 Puritan Board Junior

    Thank you for the advice. Good point.
     
  11. Ryan&Amber2013

    Ryan&Amber2013 Puritan Board Junior

    Great place of heart, brother. The Lord will exalt the humble.
     
  12. Edward

    Edward Puritan Board Doctor

    @chuckd

    To expound a little more on the TPH - it was put together as a joint effort of the OPC and the URCNA. But the publisher is Great Commission Publications, which is a joint effort between the OPC and the PCA. So if a PCA church buys them, they are buying them from a company half owned by the denomination.
     
  13. kodos

    kodos Puritan Board Junior

    Reading threads like this makes me very glad that certain people are not called to be elders. I shudder to think of how they would bind a person’s conscience.
     
  14. Ryan&Amber2013

    Ryan&Amber2013 Puritan Board Junior

    I'm sorry you feel this way. That was pretty hurtful. Just saying...
     
  15. kodos

    kodos Puritan Board Junior

    This is a bit strange. You are telling men to sin against their conscience and to have an implicit faith. I am not sure if you have ever had to deal with a man that has a tender conscience and the kind of spiritual wreckage you will have to deal with in the aftermath.

    An undershepherd ought to consider such things.
     
  16. Tom Hart

    Tom Hart Puritan Board Junior

    I am reminded of Psalm 138.
     
  17. Kinghezy

    Kinghezy Puritan Board Freshman

    1. The EP position, as I understand it, considers it a sin to sing non-psalms. Would you advocate someone going against their conscience and thereby thinking they are sinning? It seems like the 1 Corinthians passage comes into play, that even if it is not a sin, they would be sinning because they think they are going against God.
    2. I thought we are not supposed to blindly follow what a leader says. That sounds popish, in that Catholics trust that the RC knows what they are doing. Paul commends the Bereans in Acts 17 for testing his teaching -- and he was an apostle!
    3. I think both are culpable. Elders would be culpable for those under their charge, but us non-elders are have a responsibility to ourselves and family. Maybe we have some responsibility for making elders aware of any concerns (aka keeping them in the loop of what a congregant is thinking, brings things to their attention that they were not aware of)? But see point 1 RE: conscience-bound.
     
  18. Jeri Tanner

    Jeri Tanner Moderator Staff Member

    Just a thought concerning the difficulty one personally feels when worship is not as it should be- think rather of our Lord, the reward given to him for his accomplishment of redemption being his rights concerning worship in the congregation! (set forth in many places in the Psalms)— particularly his right to lead the congregation in the yadah (the praise) and the zamar (the psalming) of God: “I will declare thy name to my brethren; in the midst of the congregation will I halal (hymn, humneo) thee. Ye that fear the LORD, halal him...” (Psalm 22:22, 23).

    Christ’s own desires in all things should be looked to. We all suffer when the church falls short of his desire and will, but may the end result of our discomfort be a lifting of the eyes to his grand purpose and a spurring to prayer that the rights of our Head in his own church might be reestablished; that he would “turn us again” and bring times of reform and restoration for his own glory (and our good).

    Remember Simeon and Anna in the temple. They longed and prayed right where they were until near the ends of their lives and God heard and answered their prayers. :)
     
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  19. Reformed Covenanter

    Reformed Covenanter Puritan Board Doctor

  20. Andrew David Short

    Andrew David Short Puritan Board Freshman

    What are the best sermons to listen to in exclusive psalmody
     
  21. Martin

    Martin Puritan Board Freshman


     
  22. Tom Hart

    Tom Hart Puritan Board Junior

    Gavin Beers did a series on worship. Several of the sermons address singing.

    Kenneth Stewart also did a couple of sermons on psalmody. You may find them here.
     
  23. Harley

    Harley Puritan Board Sophomore

    @Andrew David Short

    Look up Adam Kuehner on the matter too, pastor of Southfield RP. He's proved incredibly helpful.

    I like to say, don't start with the exclusive portion (though I'm fully convinced these are the only authorized songs for worship). Start with the complete sufficiency of the Psalter for the New Covenant Christian, ie. that the Psalter is in no way lacking for a Christian in this time to worship God. The argument must be felt as well as tell't. In my pro-hymnody days this was my main argument against EP, and for many it's the greatest of all objections against EP, that the Psalms are too shadowy, couched in types, lack NC clarity needed for a Christian today, and you don't sing the name Jesus.

    Or even better, start by singing them. You can get the 1650 online, it's mostly common meter tunes, so many classical hymn tunes can be adapted to sing a psalm to them. It won't take long to find the word of Christ dwelling richly in you.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2019
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  24. Reformed Covenanter

    Reformed Covenanter Puritan Board Doctor

    On a lighter note, one thing that might help to further our cause is to stop identifying as EP and to start identifying as IHA (Inspired Hymns Attracted). In which case, others might seek to avoid any #Davidphobic sentiments, treat those struggling with IHA with more empathy and understanding, and strive to create a safe space for IHA brothers and sisters. ;)
     
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  25. Harley

    Harley Puritan Board Sophomore

    @Andrew David Short

    In keeping with my last post, recommendations for singing about Christ: Psalms 2, 8, 16, 20-24, 45, 65, 72, 89, 10, 118, 130.

    He is in all the Psalter, though these stand out as great mountain peaks on Christ. At least to me.

    @Reformed Covenanter funny!

    Yet I think the point is crucial. I personally prefer CSP--Complete Sufficiency of the Psalter.
     
  26. De Jager

    De Jager Puritan Board Freshman

    As an engineer, when I see csp, I think corrugated steel pipe lol
     
  27. Harley

    Harley Puritan Board Sophomore

    CSP is all a matter of perspective :)
     
  28. timfost

    timfost Puritan Board Junior

    That's what they did in the 4th century when EPs were in the company of those singing Te Deum.

    ;)

    ***Continue***
     
  29. richardnz

    richardnz Puritan Board Freshman

    If the hymns are expressing biblical truth, is it not possible to say them rather than sing them? Most EP proponents believe that the singing must be of Psalms, but I do not believe that saying or praying to God is subject to the same requirement. This way at least there can be a better measure of congregational unity in worship.
     

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