How concerned should we be?


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I wasn't aware Lutherans were in the business of denying/undermining justification by faith alone.

Also, Lutherans are very clear that they are Lutherans, FV people claim to be Reformed, and are a lot more vague in what they believe. That's why its more of an issue, people read Doug Wilson for his cultural commentary and such, and this other stuff gets stuck in under the radar. It's a lot harder to parse the good from the bad in those situations.

Another thing is, even if James White was right that Baptists can't be FV so him and his crew are safe from such errors, does he not realise lots of non-baptists listen/watch his material? Is he fine with just exposing them to heresy?

When you say FV you have to differentiate. DW has put out hours and reams of material defending justification by faith alone and attacking Rome.

There are some FVists who have put out reams of material that sound blatantly Romanist.
 
Has the former PCA RE in Houston who ran on a pro sodomite, pro abortion ticket been church disciplined? If not why not? Why has everyone just forgotten all about that?

Why can P&R publishing publish a book that denies historic Reformed teaching on men and women, have it endorsed by big names, and anyone who disagrees is labeled as a sympathizer of DW and Vision Forum?

This type of thing is a symptom of a systemic issue in the PCA and NAPARC. It shows that we’re far more affected by the culture and it’s benevolent Enlightenment secular humanism than we realize.

Young people see this and they’re far more perceptive then we realize and far more susceptible to people who will promise them a way out of all that. Until we get folks willing to be straight up and uncompromising like the Crosspolitic, DW folks, we’ll see younger people gravitate to this more of a no holds barred engagement with the root and branch of the Militant Secularism engulfing our nation.


This entire thing belies one big issue though,
Don’t Baptists deny the objectivity of the Covenant and therefore it’s impossible for them to be FV?
What do you mean that we deny the objectivity?
 
FV theology is similar in a lot of ways to Book of Concord Lutheranism. In some respects, like christology, the errors of Lutherans are far more severe. I'm not a Lutheran, I don't worship with Lutherans if there's a Reformed Church around, and I pray that Lutherans would come to a better understanding of the truth, but if I were to see that a Lutheran were speaking at a conference, I wouldn't sound the alarm, and I wouldn't condemn others for associating with them, etc. I wouldn't mind seeing moderate FV types treated more like Lutherans and less like Arians. Sure, they shouldn't be able to teach their errors in Reformed Churches, but moderation in rhetoric and charity in judgments would be good in my opinion.
I thought Luther now agreed with The Rome view on faith and good works now?
 
Help me out here:

1. What area?

2. What is "heavy-lifting"?

3. What is "NOT doing it"?

:detective:

Mostly with abortion abolitionism and other attempts to “reclaim” the culture. Apologia is decidedly postmillennial and they truly believe they will end abortion through their efforts. I certainly applaud the attempt, but I am a bit skeptical about the outcome.
 
Mostly with abortion abolitionism and other attempts to “reclaim” the culture. Apologia is decidedly postmillennial and they truly believe they will end abortion through their efforts. I certainly applaud the attempt, but I am a bit skeptical about the outcome.
I figured as much. However, I just don't like the assumption that unless you are doing what apologia and DW are doing regarding abortion, then you must be "NOT doing it". This is far from the truth.:detective:
 
Well, James White was an elder of my church for six of the seven years I've been a member there and is also a friend of mine. He's actually also debated Doug Wilson on this topic and his point of view on this matter couldn't be more clear.

So, no. It doesn't really concern me one bit.
Why would anyone seek any degree of commonality with someone who has an adulterated (false) gospel. Wilson’s views were rightly condemned and that should be the end of it. No matter how “brilliant” he is, he ought not be given any platform anywhere. Sola Fides is the heart of the Gospel, not Wilson’s tired old Romish paradigm.
 
14 years ago on PB if anyone gave these quasi-defenses of DW, they would have been banned. I am glad y'all aren't being banned. It's good for you to be here.
 
Utterly unconcerned. There may be overlap in some eschatalogical areas (I have not seen if James White has switched from amil to post-mil, last I heard was that he was an amil going to a post-mil church), but knowing James White's admiration of consistency, I could see him having some respect for his perception of consistency for a paedobaptism/paedocommunion CREC member such as DW. That said, I am not concerned that he will take on any sort of FV - a Baptist FV is really quite a contradiction in terms. I should certainly be interested to talk with a Baptist FV, much in the same way I would be interested in talking with an amil dispensationalist.
 
I figured as much. However, I just don't like the assumption that unless you are doing what apologia and DW are doing regarding abortion, then you must be "NOT doing it". This is far from the truth.:detective:

This is a good word.

Just because you don't see flashy/click-bait videos of NAPARC leaders doing ministry floating around on social media, doesn't mean work isn't getting done. It's easy for us to assume that the most vocal are getting the most done.
 
Quiz:

What is one of the marks of a true church?
a) True preaching of the Gospel
b) A Theology that "bites back."
c) Well, actually....
d) both (b) and (c)
 
Utterly unconcerned. There may be overlap in some eschatalogical areas (I have not seen if James White has switched from amil to post-mil, last I heard was that he was an amil going to a post-mil church), but knowing James White's admiration of consistency, I could see him having some respect for his perception of consistency for a paedobaptism/paedocommunion CREC member such as DW. That said, I am not concerned that he will take on any sort of FV - a Baptist FV is really quite a contradiction in terms. I should certainly be interested to talk with a Baptist FV, much in the same way I would be interested in talking with an amil dispensationalist.

To be clear, James White has been going to Post-Mill churches for the last 30 years.

He left PRBC (a Post-Mill church) to go to Apologia (a Post-Mill church).

He himself has been and still remains an Amill.
 
Should we also be concerned that R.C. Sproul had Wilson speak at his conference and that Ligonier still makes Wilson's articles and sermons available on their website?

It seems that of late Wilson has become the social-media whipping boy, with anyone who remotely appears friendly towards him being denounced etc. I wonder if for the sake of consistency Ligonier and Sproul should also be denounced?

https://www.ligonier.org/learn/teachers/douglas-wilson/?type=Conference&sort=recent
 
Should we also be concerned that R.C. Sproul had Wilson speak at his conference and that Ligonier still makes Wilson's articles and sermons available on their website? ... I wonder if for the sake of consistency Ligonier and Sproul should also be denounced

These Ligonier Conferences were in 2002 and 2003.

So a timeline might help us see how things unfolded:
2002 Jun 22, RPCUS called 4 FV to repent
2003 Jan, 4 FV speeches examined by Pipa, Robbins, Smith and Sproul Jr
2003 Aug, Knox Colloquium with the 4 FV (meeting for private correction)
2003 Aug, Sandlin, Shepherd and 4 others joined the FV movement
2004 OPC began study committee

So FV hadn't blown up and was probably still limited to the 4, who claimed they were teachable and were meeting for discussions. So not likely that Wilson was ruled out yet. FV Joint Statement didn't come until 2007. And the denominational reports against FV were as follows: 2006 OPC, 2007 PCA and URC, 2008 RPCNA, 2009 RCUS, etc
 
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These Ligonier Conferences were in 2002 and 2003.

So a timeline might help us see how things unfolded:
2002 Jun 22, RPCUS called 4 FV to repent
2003 Jan, 4 FV speeches examined by Pipa, Robbins, Smith and Sproul Jr
2003 Aug, Knox Colloquium with the 4 FV (meeting for private correction)
2003 Aug, Sandlin, Shepherd and 4 others joined the FV movement
2004 OPC began study committee

So FV hadn't blown up and was probably still limited to the 4, who claimed they were teachable and were meeting for discussions. So not likely that Wilson was ruled out yet. FV Joint Statement didn't come until 2007. And the denominational reports against FV were as follows: 2006 OPC, 2007 PCA and URC, 2008 RPCNA, 2009 RCUS, etc

Yet now it has blown up, and they still sell Wilson's material and have his articles online. It seems like they stand by their speakers (I believe he spoke in 2000 & 2003). I was first introduced to Wilson via a Ligonier DVD
 
Has the former PCA RE in Houston who ran on a pro sodomite, pro abortion ticket been church disciplined? If not why not? Why has everyone just forgotten all about that?

Why can P&R publishing publish a book that denies historic Reformed teaching on men and women, have it endorsed by big names, and anyone who disagrees is labeled as a sympathizer of DW and Vision Forum?

This type of thing is a symptom of a systemic issue in the PCA and NAPARC. It shows that we’re far more affected by the culture and it’s benevolent Enlightenment secular humanism than we realize.

Young people see this and they’re far more perceptive then we realize and far more susceptible to people who will promise them a way out of all that. Until we get folks willing to be straight up and uncompromising like the Crosspolitic, DW folks, we’ll see younger people gravitate to this more of a no holds barred engagement with the root and branch of the Militant Secularism engulfing our nation.


This entire thing belies one big issue though,
Don’t Baptists deny the objectivity of the Covenant and therefore it’s impossible for them to be FV?

Hi, what’s the P&R book you’re referring to? Personally, I would like to see a little more fight from orthodox Presbyterians, (but Wilson ain’t where it’s at) Thanks!
 
Hi, what’s the P&R book you’re referring to? Personally, I would like to see a little more fight from orthodox Presbyterians, (but Wilson ain’t where it’s at) Thanks!

Look up the most recent P&R books by Aimee Byrd and Rachel Green Miller.
 
Does FV teach that I, through obedience to a covenant, can be more righteous than the other guy? Then yes, I am very concerned about my fellow Baptists. ;)
 
Hi, what’s the P&R book you’re referring to? Personally, I would like to see a little more fight from orthodox Presbyterians, (but Wilson ain’t where it’s at) Thanks!

Beyond Authority and Submission. I agree that NAPARC needs a little more willingness to fight. Generation Z can see it and wants it.
 
As someone who voted for the third option, I am genuinely alarmed both by the crude partisanship of the Particular Baptists commenting here (seeming not to wish to condemn one of their boys) and by the fact that (at the time of writing) 34% of respondents have replied that they are not concerned by these developments. Has zeal against the Federal Vision really reached such a low ebb?

The fact that you are not concerned about Federal Visionists being given a platform by Particular Baptists when numerous Reformed churches, with whom you must largely agree with on soteriology, have condemned this teaching as heterodox is very troubling.
 
So obviously White is being seduced by a type of culture war that is always knocking at the church door looking to devour it, but I agree that we have to find a proper, better way to hold fast against the various threats. I think RC Sproul was one of the best contemporary voices taking on all these various threats with sound and consistent theology/exegesis. But there must be many strong voices speaking as one faithful body in these confusing and troubling times.
 
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As someone who voted for the third option, I am genuinely alarmed both by the crude partisanship of the Particular Baptists commenting here (seeming not to wish to condemn one of their boys) and by the fact that (at the time of writing) 34% of respondents have replied that they are not concerned by these developments. Has zeal against the Federal Vision really reached such a low ebb?

The fact that you are not concerned about Federal Visionists being given a platform by Particular Baptists when numerous Reformed churches, with whom you must largely agree with on soteriology, have condemned this teaching as heterodox is very troubling.
I'll try to give an apology for the skepticism. I don't think anyone doubts that some or many federal visionists have undermined the foundation of the Christian faith. I, for one, have no problem with disassociation from such persons or with calling others to do the same. The skepticism results from the following points:
1) The label Federal Vision is not particularly descriptive. a) It's a bit of a bogeyman on the twitterverse and blogosphere, so if I see that one person has said another person has something to do with the 'federal vision', I haven't actual learned anything meaningful about the accused. It's like when internet conservatives call someone 'marxist'. Ok, they're probably not a Trump voter, but are they in the jungle fighting to overthrow Batista, or are they just a garden variety democrat? and b) even if someone calls or called themselves a federal visionist, all it actual means is that they affirm the federal vision statement, which is not inherently heretical. It certainly teaches a lot of errors, like baptismal regeneration and the possibility of irrational/contradiction theology (both taught by Lutherans!), but knowing that one affirms it does not in itself tell me they're heretical. Are these teachers in this conference heretical? It's possible, but I'm not going to simply assume it's the case without good evidence to that effect.
2) Why should what a baptist church in Arizona does in its conference be a cause for me to lose sleep? Not only is it not my church or denomination, it's not even presbyterian/reformed. FV teachers in the PCA? That would concern me. In the OPC? That would also concern me. In a baptist church in Arizona? Let me be concerned first about the Papists. Those are definite heretics in my community. These are maybe-heretics very far away.
 
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So obviously White is being seduced by a type of culture war that is always knocking at the church door looking to devour it, but I agree that we have to find a proper, better way to hold fast against the various threats. I think RC Sproul was one of the best contemporary voices taking on all these various threats with sound and consistent theology/exegesis. But there must be many strong voices speaking as one faithful body in these confusing and troubling times.


The problem that I see is that the church in America bifurcated the role of the church and the gospel. This lead to Modernists becoming all Social Gospel and social action with no gospel or evangelism and the evangelicals becoming all evangelism with no action as a reaction against this, leading to the fear of not wanting to be the Moral Majority again and completely becoming milquetoast and surrendering to cries of hurt feelings. Meanwhile, apostate denominations send ministers to "bless" child sacrifice centers and show up in their Senator's face to demand he steal from you to pay for other people's abortions.

Hence the church struggling to recover a proper understanding of the role of these two things and civil government that the Reformers had, but we are not comfortable with due to Enlightenment assumptions.

What's worse is many leaders in the church or people anointed as spokesmen for the church are content with losing because they have some sort of heady idealization of persecution. If we have the blessing of liberty (for now) why would we surrender it? If you told an old Russian Christian who lived under Communism that a Christian florist was being sued by the State for not decorating a venue for a gay marriage and we had the opportunity to cry out and force the government to abandon this action, but many Christians were saying she should just decorate the venue, they would be incensed.

Younger folks see all of this going down, and are attempting to find leaders and vocabulary, but the culture loses their collective sanity on them and our leaders in the church are blissfully fighting battles from 2008 or worse, bringing the culture and its doctrines into the church in some sort of misguided Church Growth Strategy.

I agree that we want to avoid being Robert Jeffress but we can't go so far as to just say "Well we'll be Raptured anyways so who cares?"
 
but we can't go so far as to just say "Well we'll be Raptured anyways so who cares?"

I am a premillennialist and not even I am saying this. Okay, I do say it when I have had a bad day, but aside from that, no one in the Reformed world is saying it.

One of the marks of a true church is the pure preaching of the gospel. It is our contention that FV jeopardizes that. Another mark is proper church discipline, and I am fairly sure Wilson's group has torpedoed that.
 
As someone who voted for the third option, I am genuinely alarmed both by the crude partisanship of the Particular Baptists commenting here (seeming not to wish to condemn one of their boys) and by the fact that (at the time of writing) 34% of respondents have replied that they are not concerned by these developments. Has zeal against the Federal Vision really reached such a low ebb?

The fact that you are not concerned about Federal Visionists being given a platform by Particular Baptists when numerous Reformed churches, with whom you must largely agree with on soteriology, have condemned this teaching as heterodox is very troubling.
Could it be due to many not even aware of what FV teaches, as never heard of it in Baptist circles until became a RB?
 
I am a premillennialist and not even I am saying this. Okay, I do say it when I have had a bad day, but aside from that, no one in the Reformed world is saying it.

I unfortunately hear it all the time from Dispensationalists in my neck of the woods. It's baffling to me how cavalier it's said too.

One of the marks of a true church is the pure preaching of the gospel. It is our contention that FV jeopardizes that. Another mark is proper church discipline, and I am fairly sure Wilson's group has torpedoed that.

I'm not defending FV or DW. My contentions simply are thus:

1. FV is not monolithic

2. "Everything I don't like is FV and therefore worthless!" is not a good attitude. FV folks have a point when they call out thin complementarianism and tolerance for Revoice theology. Their solution in the form of their understanding of covenants are wrong yes. However not all of their practical solutions are wrong.

3. Apologia and Dr. White are not FV and are not denying Sola Fide.

4. The younger generation are seeing the NAPARC denoms (rightly or wrongly) as either totally oblivious to these concerns being addressed by Apologia and DW or actively pursuing the very theology and politics that has created these problems.
 
4. The younger generation are seeing the NAPARC denoms (rightly or wrongly) as either totally oblivious to these concerns being addressed by Apologia and DW or actively pursuing the very theology and politics that has created these problems.

Ever thought that this is due to the fact that now you can only be widely "accepted" by the christian culture if you engage in Social Media Platform Wars? Faithful pastors should not feel as if they are "silent" or "irrelevant" just because they are not screaming on Social Media, Documentaries, podcasts, and Conferences. Faithful Church is sitting under the regular and faithful means of grace and trusting in the power of hearing that gospel and drawing others to its power. Joyfully abiding in and being obedient to that Word. Loving your neighbors and seeking ways to bring them under that Preached Word. This is how nations are changed. Nehemiah 8-9 gives us a good example of this power.:detective:

NKJV - Nehemiah 8 & 9
1 Now all the people gathered together as one man in the open square that was in front of the Water Gate; and they told Ezra the scribe to bring the Book of the Law of Moses, which the Lord had commanded Israel.
2 So Ezra the priest brought the Law before the assembly of men and women and all who could hear with understanding on the first day of the seventh month.
3 Then he read from it in the open square that was in front of the Water Gate from morning until midday, before the men and women and those who could understand; and the ears of all the people were attentive to the Book of the Law.
4 So Ezra the scribe stood on a platform of wood which they had made for the purpose; and beside him, at his right hand, stood Mattithiah, Shema, Anaiah, Urijah, Hilkiah, and Maaseiah; and at his left hand Pedaiah, Mishael, Malchijah, Hashum, Hashbadana, Zechariah, and Meshullam.
5 And Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people, for he was standing above all the people; and when he opened it, all the people stood up.
6 And Ezra blessed the Lord, the great God. Then all the people answered, "Amen, Amen!" while lifting up their hands. And they bowed their heads and worshiped the Lord with their faces to the ground.
7 Also Jeshua, Bani, Sherebiah, Jamin, Akkub, Shabbethai, Hodijah, Maaseiah, Kelita, Azariah, Jozabad, Hanan, Pelaiah, and the Levites, helped the people to understand the Law; and the people stood in their place.
8 So they read distinctly from the book, in the Law of God; and they gave the sense, and helped them to understand the reading.
9 And Nehemiah, who was the governor, Ezra the priest and scribe, and the Levites who taught the people said to all the people, "This day is holy to the Lord your God; do not mourn nor weep." For all the people wept, when they heard the words of the Law.
10 Then he said to them, "Go your way, eat the fat, drink the sweet, and send portions to those for whom nothing is prepared; for this day is holy to our Lord. Do not sorrow, for the joy of the Lord is your strength."
11 So the Levites quieted all the people, saying, "Be still, for the day is holy; do not be grieved."
12 And all the people went their way to eat and drink, to send portions and rejoice greatly, because they understood the words that were declared to them.
13 Now on the second day the heads of the fathers' houses of all the people, with the priests and Levites, were gathered to Ezra the scribe, in order to understand the words of the Law.
14 And they found written in the Law, which the Lord had commanded by Moses, that the children of Israel should dwell in booths during the feast of the seventh month,
15 and that they should announce and proclaim in all their cities and in Jerusalem, saying, "Go out to the mountain, and bring olive branches, branches of oil trees, myrtle branches, palm branches, and branches of leafy trees, to make booths, as it is written."
16 Then the people went out and brought them and made themselves booths, each one on the roof of his house, or in their courtyards or the courts of the house of God, and in the open square of the Water Gate and in the open square of the Gate of Ephraim.
17 So the whole assembly of those who had returned from the captivity made booths and sat under the booths; for since the days of Joshua the son of Nun until that day the children of Israel had not done so. And there was very great gladness.
18 Also day by day, from the first day until the last day, he read from the Book of the Law of God. And they kept the feast seven days; and on the eighth day there was a sacred assembly, according to the prescribed manner.

9
1 Now on the twenty-fourth day of this month the children of Israel were assembled with fasting, in sackcloth, and with dust on their heads.
2 Then those of Israelite lineage separated themselves from all foreigners; and they stood and confessed their sins and the iniquities of their fathers.
3 And they stood up in their place and read from the Book of the Law of the Lord their God for one-fourth of the day; and for another fourth they confessed and worshiped the Lord their God.
4 Then Jeshua, Bani, Kadmiel, Shebaniah, Bunni, Sherebiah, Bani, and Chenani stood on the stairs of the Levites and cried out with a loud voice to the Lord their God.
5 And the Levites, Jeshua, Kadmiel, Bani, Hashabniah, Sherebiah, Hodijah, Shebaniah, and Pethahiah, said: "Stand up and bless the Lord your God Forever and ever! "Blessed be Your glorious name, Which is exalted above all blessing and praise!
6 You alone are the Lord; You have made heaven, The heaven of heavens, with all their host, The earth and everything on it, The seas and all that is in them, And You preserve them all. The host of heaven worships You.
7 "You are the Lord God, Who chose Abram, And brought him out of Ur of the Chaldeans, And gave him the name Abraham;
8 You found his heart faithful before You, And made a covenant with him To give the land of the Canaanites, The Hittites, the Amorites, The Perizzites, the Jebusites, And the Girgashites-- To give it to his descendants. You have performed Your words, For You are righteous.
9 "You saw the affliction of our fathers in Egypt, And heard their cry by the Red Sea.
10 You showed signs and wonders against Pharaoh, Against all his servants, And against all the people of his land. For You knew that they acted proudly against them. So You made a name for Yourself, as it is this day.
11 And You divided the sea before them, So that they went through the midst of the sea on the dry land; And their persecutors You threw into the deep, As a stone into the mighty waters.
12 Moreover You led them by day with a cloudy pillar, And by night with a pillar of fire, To give them light on the road Which they should travel.
13 "You came down also on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven, And gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments.
14 You made known to them Your holy Sabbath, And commanded them precepts, statutes and laws, By the hand of Moses Your servant.
15 You gave them bread from heaven for their hunger, And brought them water out of the rock for their thirst, And told them to go in to possess the land Which You had sworn to give them.
16 "But they and our fathers acted proudly, Hardened their necks, And did not heed Your commandments.
17 They refused to obey, And they were not mindful of Your wonders That You did among them. But they hardened their necks, And in their rebellion They appointed a leader To return to their bondage. But You are God, Ready to pardon, Gracious and merciful, Slow to anger, Abundant in kindness, And did not forsake them.
18 "Even when they made a molded calf for themselves, And said, 'This is your god That brought you up out of Egypt,' And worked great provocations,
19 Yet in Your manifold mercies You did not forsake them in the wilderness. The pillar of the cloud did not depart from them by day, To lead them on the road; Nor the pillar of fire by night, To show them light, And the way they should go.
20 You also gave Your good Spirit to instruct them, And did not withhold Your manna from their mouth, And gave them water for their thirst.
21 Forty years You sustained them in the wilderness, They lacked nothing; Their clothes did not wear out And their feet did not swell.
22 "Moreover You gave them kingdoms and nations, And divided them into districts. So they took possession of the land of Sihon, The land of the king of Heshbon, And the land of Og king of Bashan.
23 You also multiplied their children as the stars of heaven, And brought them into the land Which You had told their fathers To go in and possess.
24 So the people went in And possessed the land; You subdued before them the inhabitants of the land, The Canaanites, And gave them into their hands, With their kings And the people of the land, That they might do with them as they wished.
25 And they took strong cities and a rich land, And possessed houses full of all goods, Cisterns already dug, vineyards, olive groves, And fruit trees in abundance. So they ate and were filled and grew fat, And delighted themselves in Your great goodness.
26 "Nevertheless they were disobedient And rebelled against You, Cast Your law behind their backs And killed Your prophets, who testified against them To turn them to Yourself; And they worked great provocations.
27 Therefore You delivered them into the hand of their enemies, Who oppressed them; And in the time of their trouble, When they cried to You, You heard from heaven; And according to Your abundant mercies You gave them deliverers who saved them From the hand of their enemies.
28 "But after they had rest, They again did evil before You. Therefore You left them in the hand of their enemies, So that they had dominion over them; Yet when they returned and cried out to You, You heard from heaven; And many times You delivered them according to Your mercies,
29 And testified against them, That You might bring them back to Your law. Yet they acted proudly, And did not heed Your commandments, But sinned against Your judgments, 'Which if a man does, he shall live by them.' And they shrugged their shoulders, Stiffened their necks, And would not hear.
30 Yet for many years You had patience with them, And testified against them by Your Spirit in Your prophets. Yet they would not listen; Therefore You gave them into the hand of the peoples of the lands.
31 Nevertheless in Your great mercy You did not utterly consume them nor forsake them; For You are God, gracious and merciful.
32 "Now therefore, our God, The great, the mighty, and awesome God, Who keeps covenant and mercy: Do not let all the trouble seem small before You That has come upon us, Our kings and our princes, Our priests and our prophets, Our fathers and on all Your people, From the days of the kings of Assyria until this day.
33 However You are just in all that has befallen us; For You have dealt faithfully, But we have done wickedly.
34 Neither our kings nor our princes, Our priests nor our fathers, Have kept Your law, Nor heeded Your commandments and Your testimonies, With which You testified against them.
35 For they have not served You in their kingdom, Or in the many good things that You gave them, Or in the large and rich land which You set before them; Nor did they turn from their wicked works.
36 "Here we are, servants today! And the land that You gave to our fathers, To eat its fruit and its bounty, Here we are, servants in it!
37 And it yields much increase to the kings You have set over us, Because of our sins; Also they have dominion over our bodies and our cattle At their pleasure; And we are in great distress.
38 "And because of all this, We make a sure covenant, and write it; Our leaders, our Levites, and our priests seal it."
l. The host of heaven worships You.
 
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