First Official *Contest* at A Puritan's Mind for the PB

Discussion in 'A Puritan's Mind Updates' started by C. Matthew McMahon, Apr 14, 2006.

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  1. C. Matthew McMahon

    C. Matthew McMahon Christian Preacher

    We don't have the frist source for TULIP yet. Still open if you want to try! I have still been unable to locate it.
     
  2. youthevang

    youthevang Puritan Board Freshman

    Below is one references that I found.

    "1610 - Long after Calvin's death, Dutch Calvinist's debate Arminians (believers in free will) in Dort; the Calvinist's develop the acronym TULIP to describe Calvin's theology."
     
  3. C. Matthew McMahon

    C. Matthew McMahon Christian Preacher

    That's not a source though.

    A source would be a footnote from a book around 1625-50 (somewhere in there) that explains the "who, what, when, where, why, how" of TULIP via Dordt.

    The kind of quote you have is the same kind of quote I write in my own papers.

    I hope that makes sense.
     
  4. caddy

    caddy Puritan Board Senior

    Good one! Had me going

    I've scoured the I-NET, emailed numerous Blog sites, even spoke with John Frame who said he would circulate to RTS faculty for any clues.

    It remains a mystery!


     
  5. fivepointcalvinist

    fivepointcalvinist Puritan Board Sophomore

    its likely we will never find out... :(
     
  6. gregbed

    gregbed Puritan Board Freshman

    In a BibSac article by Earle Cairns:
    Boettner sums up in this manner: "œThe five points of Calvinism may be more easily remembered if they are associated with the word tulip: total inability (depravity of all human beings resulting from Adam´s sin), unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, and perseverance of the saints."24
    Dallas Theological Seminary, Bibliotheca Sacra Volume 106, 106:116 (Dallas Theological Seminary, 1949; 2002).

    As a historian, I would think Cairns would have noted an earlier source if he knew of one.

    I betting on Puritan Sailor. I thought if it's too late to get the right answer, I could make some money by setting up a pool. I promise to buy books with the proceeds.
     
  7. caddy

    caddy Puritan Board Senior

    That was the ONE book that got me thinking on the absolute truthfulness of Reformed theology just a few years ago.


     
  8. caddy

    caddy Puritan Board Senior

    Puritan Salior didn't snag this ?
     
  9. Puritan Sailor

    Puritan Sailor Puritan Board Doctor

    Greg (doulosChristou) just sent me this quote:

    "Ever since the appearance of Lorraine Boettner's magisterial The Reformed Doctrine of Presestination, it has been customary to refer to the five points according to the acrostic TULIP."

    Steele, David N., Curtis C. Thomas, and S. Lance Quinn The Five Points of Calvinism: Defined, Defended, Documented, 2nd ed. (Phillipsburg, NJ: P & R Publishing) 2004, p. xiv.
     
  10. fivepointcalvinist

    fivepointcalvinist Puritan Board Sophomore

    if thats not a winner i dont know what is...

    :up:
     
  11. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim Puritan Board Doctor

    in my opinion that's probably as definitive as it's going to get. If Boettner didn't invent TULIP, his work certainly served to popularize its use. And no one has found a clear use of it prior to Boettner's work.
     
  12. C. Matthew McMahon

    C. Matthew McMahon Christian Preacher

    Boettner did not invent TULIP. Popularization....mmmmm.....aahhhh. Yeah maybe. I can't see that Boettner came "up" with TULIP.

    Maybe there is no definitive answer. But it sure seems strange that we use it so "evidently" and it doesn't have a concise beginning. I mean, "tulips" "five petals intertwined" Dutch" Synod IN Dordt." Seems strange that there are no histroy books that say "Rev. "x" came up with the term.
     
  13. fivepointcalvinist

    fivepointcalvinist Puritan Board Sophomore

    it appears as though the implication is that boettner did invent the acrostic, and did not simply popularize it. "ever since" implies that something came after; i dont see how he could have not suggested its use. like i noted in a previous post, dutch speaking calvinists at the time of Dordt would not have spelled tulip t-u-l-i-p, it would have been spelled t-u-l-p. also it is impossible that the dutch words could have been total, unconditional, limited, irresistible and perseverance as they are all clearly english words. only someone who spoke english could have came up with the acrostic. since no sources pre-date boettners work in use of this acronym, i think its fairly safe to say he should receive credit for its beginning. hard to prove otherwise...:2cents:

    [Edited on 6-25-2006 by fivepointcalvinist]
     
  14. Puritan Sailor

    Puritan Sailor Puritan Board Doctor

    I browsed through the RTS Reformed Theology section. There are several "Reformed Faith" type books even from Boettner's time and they didn't use the acrostic. I actually think that the acrostic makes too narrow a definition since the Reformed Faith includes much more than the 5 points. But before Boettner, the Reformed Faith was considered much broader than the TULIP.
     
  15. Me Died Blue

    Me Died Blue Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    That in particular seems especially relevant to the issue of him coining the acronym rather than merely popularizing it, since even his contemporaries apparently didn't refer to it.

    But that's really not a problem attached to the formulation and use of the acrostic, since whatever potential problems of abuse and narrowness may lie in it (and I agree there are such problems) would likewise have lay in the five points as defined at Dordt long before the acrostic. In other words, it seems that "But before Dordt" would more consistently fit at the beginning of your last sentence than "But before Boettner" does. Even so, while the acrostic doesn't inherently or directly narrow things any more than the Canons of Dordt themselves do, if you're simply saying that the acrostic's extended popularization of the five-point system and mindset made further room for exploitation of those potential problems of narrowness, I see that point and agree.

    :scholar: Anyway, back to the topic...
     
  16. Puritan Sailor

    Puritan Sailor Puritan Board Doctor

    I read some unpublished syllubi from CW Hodge , who was the Systematics professor at Princeton when Boettner went there. Hodge didn't use it. If Boettner got it from somewhere else then he doesn't reference it which would be a scholarly no-no.
     
  17. fivepointcalvinist

    fivepointcalvinist Puritan Board Sophomore

    English = Dutch translation

    total = Het totaal

    unconditional = Onvoorwaardelijk

    limited = Beperkte

    irresistible = Onweerstaanbaar

    perseverance = De volharding

    clearly displays the fact that a dutchman could not have come up with the acrostic...
     
  18. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim Puritan Board Doctor

    See this thread on Boettner and documentation.
     
  19. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    Perhaps some research in Boettner's other writings may yield some clues? Or if there are any unpublished papers that might help which may have some sort of reference that the book does not. Also, if Boettner's libarary was preserved, or at least a list of the books he owned, that might give some leads to any possible earlier writings. Looking at the Hodge was a good idea; maybe there are some other MSS like that to pursue? Not by me of course; I've done my time on this sort of thing trying to track down the source of the term Regulative Principle of Worship, for which see my musings in The Confessional Presbyterian 1 and the newly arrived CPJ 2.

    Maybe it would be worthwhile to ask Curtis if he knows more? Dr. Bacon has run into him on mission trips to Burma (of all places); so he may have some contact info. I can ask him when he returns from Brazil. He is speaking at the Puritan Project there along with O. Palmer Robertson.
     
  20. Puritan Sailor

    Puritan Sailor Puritan Board Doctor

    Does anyone know if Boettner has any children still alive?
     
  21. C. Matthew McMahon

    C. Matthew McMahon Christian Preacher

    Patrick - exactly. Listing things in that way is a "no no" without documentation.

    If he had documented it, then we would have already had a winner!

    I think the Dutch quotes of fivepointcalvinist may be of help. But I don't read dutch and can't research that. Maybe someone knows who could?
     
  22. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    Dr. Beeke? In fact, he may the one who just might know the answer.
     
  23. Puritan Sailor

    Puritan Sailor Puritan Board Doctor

    If Boettner made it up, what would there be to document? He would be the primary source.
     
  24. MW

    MW Puritanboard Amanuensis

    Do I remember correctly that Dr. Boettner ordered his filing cabinet to be burned after his decease? Imagine trying to accomplish that in today's virtual world.

    I think Chris is on the right track. Some of the lesser known works quoted in the RDP would be a good place to start. Also, one might try a journal like "The Presbyterian," where articles were written on a more popular level.
     
  25. Pilgrim

    Pilgrim Puritan Board Doctor

  26. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    Mmmh. Don't just hate that?:(
     
  27. Puritan Sailor

    Puritan Sailor Puritan Board Doctor

    Did some more searching today. Found a lot of books on Reformed Theology from the early to mid 1900's but none except Boettner so far used TULIP (or ever referenced it). There were some references to the "Five Points" but they were often presented in a different order than TULIP and used more precise terminology. Steele and Thomas's book in 1963 (in their 2nd edition they indicate Boettner started it, as noted above) was the next book chronologically I could find which used the acronym. It almost seems like the other scholars were ignoring Boettner before then since I found very few references at all to him. WJ Seaton wrote a pamphlet called the "Five Points..." points published by Banner of Truth in 1970 using TULIP. Palmer came out with the 5 points in 1972 using TULIP. IN 1976, the PRC put out a little book called the "Five Points..." by Hanko, Hoeksema, and Van Baren which was structured in 5 chapters using TULIP. And Duane Spencer actual named his little book TULIP: The Five Points... in 1979. So it would appear the common use of TULIP didn't take off until around the 70's or early 80's (at least in printed material). That would lead me to conclude pending further evidence, that Boettner made up TULIP, and it took a while for it to catch on, almost 30 years. Interestingly, Boettner wrote a little treatise called the Reformed Faith in 1983 but used Steel and Thomas's little TULIP comparison chart to conclude it. Plus, I didn't find any acronyms or memory aids used in the books before Boettner. :2cents:

    [Edited on 6-26-2006 by Puritan Sailor]
     
  28. Civbert

    Civbert Puritan Board Junior

    This Boettner quote seems to show that Boettner invented TULIP.

    Consider, the first person who used TULIP would not reference an earlier source. But also, it does not seem likely that the first person would say "by the way, I just invented this acronym". However, he might phrase it ""œThe five points of Calvinism may be more easily remembered if they are associated with the word tulip ..." That reads to me as the way someone who has never heard the acronym might phrase it, sort of as a suggestion for people (such as seminary students) who wanted to memorize some key doctrines - by giving a mnemonic to help them.

    gregbed, it looks like the quote has a footnote "24". I assume it's some document written by Boettner. What does footnote 24 say?
     
  29. Puritan Sailor

    Puritan Sailor Puritan Board Doctor

    The next time I go to the Library I'm going to try to track down the book reviews cited in Boettner's 1969 reprint to see if they shed any light on the issue.
     
  30. CDM

    CDM Puritan Board Junior

    I wonder why he wanted his writings to be destroyed?
     
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