For those in the Southern USA!

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Weston Stoler

Puritan Board Sophomore
Well not technically just for those in the south but this question is directed primarely towards us.

Why is it that so many people in the south have been taken in by liberal churches in the south? When their is a presbyterian church it is usually PCUSA and if it is not Baptist it is Church of Christ or Church of God.

My city has been known for the most churches per square mile in the world. Yet the lack of reformed churches means that the PCA church in my town has about a quarter Baptists residing in it......


Even if it is conservative Baptist it is ussualy Independant fundamentalist Baptist churches who like their legalism with a side of fries. What is up with the south? I would rather live in seattle.
 
As far as I know, while we would have very significant disagreements with them on a number of issues, most "Churches of Christ" and the various Church of God denominations aren't liberal by any commonly understood definition of the term. Most Church of God denoms. are related to Pentecostalism and/or Wesleyan holiness theology, either historically or in current doctrine and practice.

With regard to Baptists, it depends on what area you are in. I'm not familiar with very many IFB's in my neck of the woods. (LA and Southern MS) There are some to be found here and there, including some ministries of some numerical and local significance. But that's the exception and not the rule. The only ones I know are KJV Only, and there aren't that many of them except in more rural areas. If there were some who were not KJV Only (KJV preferred would be fine) I would have checked them out by now. (There is a bit of a Calvinistic resurgence with mostly younger IFB's as well as Southern Baptists, although it may not impact the church in one's neighborhood.)

I think IFB's may be more prevalent in the Upper South and maybe the Southeast. You may be referring to Missionary Baptists aka Landmarkers as well, which resemble fundys in some ways but would often stress their Baptist identity and disclaim any identification with independent fundamentalism, which is still interdenominational to some degree, as with BJU. (These groups are probably somewhat more common in the "Old Southwest" i.e. Arkansas, E. TX etc. and some parts of the Deep South.)

In most parts of the South, Southern Baptists are by far the predominant group.

But I agree when it comes to mainline denominations like PCUSA, ECUSA and UMC. There are many of these congregations dotting the landscape in the Southern USA. In some parts, despite the conservative turn in the SBC, a good many more left leaning Baptist congregations can be found.

I think the idea to take away from this is that in many ways, the "Bible Belt" isn't all that biblical. It's more of a cultural conservatism than anything else. There is a lack of discernment for all but the most obvious immoral practices, as seen with homosexuality apparently being the last straw for many "conservatives" in the PCUSA. In other places where it is not quite that bad, the people have rarely if ever been exposed to sound doctrine and have not really been discipled, so there's little basis for judging truth from error from a doctrinal standpoint. Hence, the focus on outward behavior, be it legalism or the social gospel. Sadly, the focus for too many is on being "in Church" (as they've been taught) rather than in Christ.

What I've seen referred to as the "habits of faith" are gradually disappearing here as they have elsewhere in the country. For example, many liberal congregations are in precipitous decline. Other churches, including "conservative" ones (incl. SBC and PCA) are dwindling and graying because of a population shift away from rural areas with economies that were previously dominated by agriculture. Then, in some urban areas, you have some massive edifices that are barely hanging on with a few dozen folks.
 
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There are liberal churches in the South for the same reason there are liberal churches in the North.( From my experience the ratio is MUCH higher in the North. ) The rebellious heart of man. I'm not trying to be trite at all. That is the core reason. In the North I believe that a great deal of the liberalism is the fruit of German Rationalism and Finneyism. In the South it is a combination of Revivalism and a slow unmooring of a culture from Biblical roots while trying to maintain propriety. This has led to a facade rich church culture.
 
Weston, you would rather live in Seattle to escape liberal churches? Have you ever lived in the Pac NW? The grass is not greener on the other side of the country. :)

I agree with Pilgrim and Mr. Underwood. I was born and raised in the south and after living in WA state for a few years, I have lived back in the south since then. We humans want our faith and worship to feel comfortable and cozy and to *serve* us by advancing our interests. We want to learn and grow, but don't try to peel our fingers off the hidden things that we hold precious. kwim? There is nothing new under the sun...it is the same all over this world.
 
There are liberal churches in the South for the same reason there are liberal churches in the North.( From my experience the ratio is MUCH higher in the North. ) The rebellious heart of man. I'm not trying to be trite at all. That is the core reason. In the North I believe that a great deal of the liberalism is the fruit of German Rationalism and Finneyism. In the South it is a combination of Revivalism and a slow unmooring of a culture from Biblical roots while trying to maintain propriety. This has led to a facade rich church culture.

Way higher up here (ratio of liberal churches), almost every town has a UCC town, some bigger towns have a few.
There's probably a great variety of great churches in your area, check out the 9Marks church directional.
 
Being Christian in name is a cultural thing. Especially in the South. Children grow up going to Church and have a tie to it culturally. In the North it wasn't as evident in my generation. In fact in my neighborhood and area if you had just a few people who attended church at all, it was an oddity. We were thoroughly taken in by the separation of Church and State and being humanitarians. That is especially true if you lived in the city and not in the rural areas. Morality in my area was separated from God in Christ and the thought of man being born in sin.
 
Why is it that so many people in the south have been taken in by liberal churches in the south?

Say you're a good, traditional southerner but not really a believer. This describes a LOT of southerners. In that case...

1. You do want to go to church because it's the traditional, cultural, "good" thing to do.
2. You don't want to be in a church that actually hassles you to live by faith, believe the gospel and repent.

Where would you go?
 
Weston, you would rather live in Seattle to escape liberal churches? Have you ever lived in the Pac NW? The grass is not greener on the other side of the country. :)

I agree with Pilgrim and Mr. Underwood. I was born and raised in the south and after living in WA state for a few years, I have lived back in the south since then. We humans want our faith and worship to feel comfortable and cozy and to *serve* us by advancing our interests. We want to learn and grow, but don't try to peel our fingers off the hidden things that we hold precious. kwim? There is nothing new under the sun...it is the same all over this world.

I'm guessing the Seattle mention was in reference to the idea that there is likely a more clear and outward antithesis between Christianity and non-Christians there. While no doubt it has its share of liberal churches too, you're going to have a lot more people there and in other similar areas openly affirm atheism, agnosticism, Buddhism, whatever. Whereas in the South and other Bible Belt areas (incl. some of the lower Midwest) people are more likely to identify as Christian albeit in only a cultural sense.
 
I will agree that folks in the Pac NW had no desire to *pretend* to be Believers. :)

I wouldn't say so, at least not all the time, here in New England many people will still call themselves christians, but usually as catholics.
 
Here in Atlanta it is of course a hotbed for the homosexual agenda and so there are many liberal churches in the metro area. But, there are also many good conservative churches as well. With the establishment of the Anglican Diocese of the South of the ACNA, we now have several, good, very orthodox Anglican parishes starting up and being established in the metro area. The are several PCA and EP churches close by me as well.

As has been said previously, being part of a denomination has been a cultural thing for many people. But as the church grays all over America, denominations are becoming less important to many people. One article I read recently said that in 10 years denominations will mean very little.

The liberal minded are going to go where not much is required of them, where you can believe whatever you want to believe whether Christian beliefs or not, and still be considered a member in good standing and in fact welcomed with open arms.

I believe that the true church is going to get smaller and smaller as the Day approaches and soon, for the true believer, the name on the sign will not matter as long as they can find a place where the gospel is being preached without compromise in the face of persecution.
 
I agree with the comments about the liberal churches in the south.

I've given this a lot of thought over the years. I am a transplant from the Chicago area where in the in 60s everyone in my neighborhood went to the catholic church. Only one or two children I knew didn't go to church and a whopping two of us were Baptists. Moving to the South was quite an eye-opener for me, and like you, I couldn't believe how many churches there are everywhere. And yes, they are more liberal than ever.

Every time I get into a discussion about the South and religion, a quotation by a family member pops into my head. "How far does one have to live from XXX (a certain well-know fundamentalist university) without smelling the stench?" What this individual meant of course was that this sort of fundamentalism rules in the south and everyone else runs away from it as fast as they can.

Then you have to add into the equation the social club mentality that rules in the southern church. It is a status symbol to be a deacon or elder in a church, especially if you are businessman or professional. The deepest disappointment I experienced as a member of a congregation was to notice that leaders are generally not chosen based on their level of spiritual maturity, but rather their position in the community. In one church where I was a member, we had two lawyers, two doctors, and a few CEOs and small business owners. Only one man that I can think of had any obvious spiritual maturity or was "apt to teach". Under this leadership, the church eventually ran out most of the decent folks, and it turned into a little social club.

Sadly, this is true not only of the liberal churches, but of the majority of reformed churches I've attended.

I have my own theories about why we in the south tend to succumb to the social status mentality in our churches, but the bottom line is as has been mentioned already...the sinfulness of the human heart. As soon as we deny our need of a Savior, or minimize or need to rely on Him, we begin to fall into whatever cultural trap there is.
 
There are 18 congregations listed in my town of approximately 24,000 residents. I would consider them broken down as follows: 16 cultural or wealth & prosperity country clubs, 1 BJU Fundy and 1 New Apostolic Reformation. I don't believe the south has a corner on the market of liberal country clubs with a cross on the door.
 
The South is about traditionalism and sentimentality.

If you have a big dose of both, but a heavier dose of the former - IFB.

If you have a small dose of the former, but a ton of the latter - PCUSA, liberal Methodist, etc.
 
The South is about traditionalism and sentimentality.

If you have a big dose of both, but a heavier dose of the former - IFB.

If you have a small dose of the former, but a ton of the latter - PCUSA, liberal Methodist, etc.

That just about sums it up.
 
Rich: Is there such a thing as a "NAR" church, as in "we are part of the NAR" or is it that there are churches that say "We are the XYZ church, but we follow the teaching of (say) Dutch Sheets?
 
Rich: Is there such a thing as a "NAR" church, as in "we are part of the NAR" or is it that there are churches that say "We are the XYZ church, but we follow the teaching of (say) Dutch Sheets?

They are mostly independent, or locally associated charismatic congregations who are under one of the "covering apostles". A list of these apostles would be from the International Coalition of Apostles. ICA | International Coalition of Apostles A quick look at their book store shows C. Peter Wagner right up front. The "apostles" get their latest and greatest from their meetings. They then meet with the local pastors for info distribution. That is just a quick overview of the power structure. One sign that a congregation is NAR ,or being influenced by it, is usually that the Strategic Prayer Network is plugged big time.
 
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Just when you thought you had seen it all... where have I been? Rich, thank you for that link to the ICA. I did not even know (thank the Lord) that it existed. Wow. I wonder if I show them my lines of apostolic succession if they will let me join? ha ha ha ha.
 
Just when you thought you had seen it all... where have I been? Rich, thank you for that link to the ICA. I did not even know (thank the Lord) that it existed. Wow. I wonder if I show them my lines of apostolic succession if they will let me join? ha ha ha ha.

You need to show them your annual dues and membership application fee, first. ;)
 
True. I will sow them a seed pledge of $23.62 because the Lord told me to read Psalm 23 on the 62nd day of the year and my dream guitar would fall into my hands on that day. Oh wait, that did not work. Got that today! ha ha ha
 
I will agree that folks in the Pac NW had no desire to *pretend* to be Believers. :)

I wouldn't say so, at least not all the time, here in New England many people will still call themselves christians, but usually as catholics.

The NE and the NW are very different places. In the area of NW WA where we lived, it was largely New Age, Mother Nature, Wiccan type people, worshippers of the creation, not the Creator. Of course, it has been some time and we hear from family and *here* that there are some good solid churches being planted, which is WONDERFUL news! Still...very different to the south.
 
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