Forum just hit 6666 members LOL Bad sign for Post-Mil

dhh712

Puritan Board Freshman
Perhaps someone can help me to get this inside joke - what's the post-mil connection?
Thanks, Neil--I didn't really know either. Isn't it something like 666 of course is the mark of the beast and then after something like the church is "raptured" or not there anymore (on earth where they can be affected by all the stuff that's going to happen) then the tribulation will come and that 666 stuff will come into play? Hopefully someone can clearly delineate what that connection is between the post-mil and 666, better than my vague thoughts on it (wouldn't pre-mil have a 666 come into play somewhere too? Or do they not look at it as like a literal mark... and the post-mils do? Looking forward for some clarity. This is obviously something I'm not too familiar with!).
 

Scottish Presbyterian

Puritan Board Freshman
Thanks, Neil--I didn't really know either. Isn't it something like 666 of course is the mark of the beast and then after something like the church is "raptured" or not there anymore (on earth where they can be affected by all the stuff that's going to happen) then the tribulation will come and that 666 stuff will come into play? Hopefully someone can clearly delineate what that connection is between the post-mil and 666, better than my vague thoughts on it (wouldn't pre-mil have a 666 come into play somewhere too? Or do they not look at it as like a literal mark... and the post-mils do? Looking forward for some clarity. This is obviously something I'm not too familiar with!).
Yes, the point is that getting overly excited at anything containing the number 666 (and blood moons and that sort of thing), which I assume is the thrust of the joke, tends to be the preserve of a particular stripe of premillennialist, but I'm not aware of postmillennialism having any significant history of adherents getting involved in that sort of thing, which is why the thread is slightly puzzling.

(Yes I'm aware that historically a few postmillennialists have been much too given to date setting, though that too is more generally a premil tendency, but I don't think that's really related).
 

Stillwaters

Puritan Board Freshman
@Scottish Presbyterian @dhh712 @arapahoepark @Edward @nathanstenzel

Hi everyone! I was asked to explain this post.

LOL

In many Reformed circles these days whenever anything happens that seems like "END TIMES" signs we say "Bad Sign for Post Mill".

Though on a sad note, all of the tragedy and war that seems to only be getting worse, and the apostasies, and the seemingly ever increasing depravity, also leads to us saying "Bad Sign for Post Mill"

This is because those who hold to Post Millennial Eschatology believe things will keep getting better and eventually most will be saved prior to Christ returning.

Read about Post Millennialism and then maybe you'll get the joke!

I just assumed the PB would have that joke going around too.

So when I saw the newest member was 6666 ... it was just too funny to me and I couldn't help myself ... and was compelled to post this.

Sorry!
 

RPEphesian

Puritan Board Junior
Hi,
Please see my comment above that explains this post.

Would you please explain your comment about the sock puppet?

Thanks.

Attempt at humor. A sock puppet is a fake account you establish on a forum. So there's the real you, and the fake you. People do it to make their own viewpoints look more prominent and more influential than they are.

My thought when I saw the "bad for post-mil" (and I think I understood what you were getting at from the start), is that not all post-mil sees things as only ever looking better, but there's room to see things getting worse before they get better. Some believe in a distinct period of time where the Spirit is poured out in an extraordinarily unsurpassed manner, which is by no means dependent on how things have ebbed and flowed prior.

So, a post-mil might also say, "The worse it gets, the better the glory." The game can go really badly in the first three quarters; that just means the fourth quarter will be all the better.
 

Scottish Presbyterian

Puritan Board Freshman
@Scottish Presbyterian @dhh712 @arapahoepark @Edward @nathanstenzel

Hi everyone! I was asked to explain this post.

LOL

In many Reformed circles these days whenever anything happens that seems like "END TIMES" signs we say "Bad Sign for Post Mill".

Though on a sad note, all of the tragedy and war that seems to only be getting worse, and the apostasies, and the seemingly ever increasing depravity, also leads to us saying "Bad Sign for Post Mill"

This is because those who hold to Post Millennial Eschatology believe things will keep getting better and eventually most will be saved prior to Christ returning.

Read about Post Millennialism and then maybe you'll get the joke!

I just assumed the PB would have that joke going around too.

So when I saw the newest member was 6666 ... it was just too funny to me and I couldn't help myself ... and was compelled to post this.

Sorry!
Ah I see, just a misapprehension of what postmillennialists believe.

We don't believe the world is continuously getting better (I know Boettner wrote a book saying that's what postmillennialists believe, but it isn't). We do believe there will be a time of worldwide blessing prior to the end of the world, I suppose amil or premil folk might think that having 6,666 members on a Reformed internet forum diminishes the chances of this happening.

Sorry for making you explain your joke, I'm sure it was better for those who got it first time before you had to do that.
 

Stillwaters

Puritan Board Freshman
Attempt at humor. A sock puppet is a fake account you establish on a forum. So there's the real you, and the fake you. People do it to make their own viewpoints look more prominent and more influential than they are.

My thought when I saw the "bad for post-mil" (and I think I understood what you were getting at from the start), is that not all post-mil sees things as only ever looking better, but there's room to see things getting worse before they get better. Some believe in a distinct period of time where the Spirit is poured out in an extraordinarily unsurpassed manner, which is by no means dependent on how things have ebbed and flowed prior.

So, a post-mil might also say, "The worse it gets, the better the glory." The game can go really badly in the first three quarters; that just means the fourth quarter will be all the better.
Yes ...
but as the times are getting much much "worser and worser",

and the TRAJECTORIES are clear that the vast majority of the world (over 70%) are unbelievers ever increasing,

and between 40,000 to 80,000 (before Covid) DIE EACH DAY in "Un-reached People Groups" who statistically it is deemed have NEVER had an opportunity to hear the Gospel,

and Scripture teaches repeatedly about the "Remnant",

and unless it will be many thousands of years until Christ returns that would give time for things to turn around by the "MEANS" that Post Mill teaches it will be turned around until the trajectory could ever change to having nearly everyone saved,

it remains "Bad News for Post Mill".

Though it would be nice if the fallen world was the Post Mill's paradise where almost everyone is saved in a nearly IDYLLIC Haven this side of Heaven ...

... but scripture sure does not seem to teach that In my humble opinion.
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
Attempt at humor. A sock puppet is a fake account you establish on a forum. So there's the real you, and the fake you. People do it to make their own viewpoints look more prominent and more influential than they are.

My thought when I saw the "bad for post-mil" (and I think I understood what you were getting at from the start), is that not all post-mil sees things as only ever looking better, but there's room to see things getting worse before they get better. Some believe in a distinct period of time where the Spirit is poured out in an extraordinarily unsurpassed manner, which is by no means dependent on how things have ebbed and flowed prior.

So, a post-mil might also say, "The worse it gets, the better the glory." The game can go really badly in the first three quarters; that just means the fourth quarter will be all the better.
I am actually 30 members here on the PB - the real me and 29 sock puppets created to like my own posts. We are legion.
 

VictorBravo

Administrator
Staff member
but as the times are getting much much "worser and worser",
It's all about perspective and what you are measuring. I'm not arguing either way, but I do find ironic how we hear that the world is getting so much worse when:

World population has increased more than 2.5 times in my lifetime.
World life expectancy has gone from under 50 to over 70 in the same period.

Other than pandemics, the most noticeable public health problem these days is obesity, not famine.

Total casualties from wars and conflicts in the world reach a monstrous peak during the 19th and 20th centuries, but seem to have tapered off since then.

But we get to hear about how bad things are much quicker and more often these days. Things weren't so rosy from a morality standpoint during the time of Paul in Corinth, or during the time of Ezekiel in Jerusalem, either.

I don't know how one could begin to measure the impact of the Gospel. I think any such effort would be thwarted by observational bias.

But the Gospel spreads, the wind blows where it will. May we see the churches full....
 

RPEphesian

Puritan Board Junior
Yes ...
but as the times are getting much much "worser and worser",

and the TRAJECTORIES are clear that the vast majority of the world (over 70%) are unbelievers ever increasing,

and between 40,000 to 80,000 (before Covid) DIE EACH DAY in "Un-reached People Groups" who statistically it is deemed have NEVER had an opportunity to hear the Gospel,

and Scripture teaches repeatedly about the "Remnant",

and unless it will be many thousands of years until Christ returns that would give time for things to turn around by the "MEANS" that Post Mill teaches it will be turned around until the trajectory could ever change to having nearly everyone saved,

it remains "Bad News for Post Mill".

Though it would be nice if the fallen world was the Post Mill's paradise where almost everyone is saved in a nearly IDYLLIC Haven this side of Heaven ...

... but scripture sure does not seem to teach that In my humble opinion.

As said, a post-mil doesn't care how bad the first three quarters of the game are. It just means the rebound in the fourth quarter will be wondrously glorious.

But if anyone is going to knock post-mil, it needs to be knocked for reasons other than, "It just couldn't happen today." A world of things happened in Scripture that "just can't happen."

One day in Samaria, the city was under siege, and food was outrageously expensive, and women were eating their children. Then Elisha prophesies that the next day food would be abundant and cheap, to which the reply was "If the Lord should open the windows of heaven, can such a thing be?" 2 King 7:2. Well, it happened.

Abraham was promised an innumerable physical and spiritual seed.... when neither him nor his wife could even have kids.

200 years later, Abraham's family had not attained to any marvelous size. Then another 200 years later, millions leave Egypt despite the oppression of Pharaoh.

The quail, the river from the rock, the parting of the Red Sea when Pharaoh was about to slaughter all Israel once and for all.

Then these desert wanderers storm down 31 kingdoms of Canaan, of whom many likely had fortified cities, much better weapons, and much more military experience. And wasn't it for fear that the task was too big that got them relegated to the desert for 40 years in the first place?

Joshua commands the sun, and God "hearkens to the voice of a man," and it stays in its very place.

Hezekiah is beseiged by Sennacherib and his >100,000, and yet the angel of the Lord slaughters every last one of them.

Zechariah and Elizabeth were too old to have children.

Mary was not married and could not have a child, yet she would be the mother of God.

Israel was hardened against their Messiah, Christ has been crucified and was in the grave, then 50 days later there are 3,000 converted in a single day, and Christianity sweeps all the world. The religion that was foolishness to Greeks and a stumbling block to Jews overswept them all, and no amount of persecution could hold back the kingdom of God.

Scripture is filled from end to end of impossible things happening at the points where it seemed that nothing good could ever come of it.

If one can trump post-mil by exegesis, that's fair and right if the work is done soundly; but the difficulty can never be rightly used as an argument against it.
 
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RPEphesian

Puritan Board Junior
I am actually 30 members here on the PB - the real me and 29 sock puppets created to like my own posts. We are legion.

Then why don't you have at least 29 likes per post? Your sock puppets don't even get along? You indeed are fascinating.
 

Stillwaters

Puritan Board Freshman
As said, a post-mil doesn't care how bad the first three quarters of the game are. It just means the rebound in the fourth quarter will be wondrously glorious.

But if anyone is going to knock post-mil, it needs to be knocked for reasons other than, "It just couldn't happen today." A world of things happened in Scripture that "just can't happen."

One day in Samaria, the city was under siege, and food was outrageously expensive, and women were eating their children. Then Elisha prophesies that the next day food would be abundant and cheap, to which the reply was "If the Lord should open the windows of heaven, can such a thing be?" 2 King 7:2. Well, it happened.

Abraham was promised an innumerable physical and spiritual seed.... when neither him nor his wife could even have kids.

200 years later, Abraham's family had not attained to any marvelous size. Then another 200 years later, millions leave Egypt despite the oppression of Pharaoh.

The quail, the river from the rock, the parting of the Red Sea when Pharaoh was about to slaughter all Israel once and for all.

Then these desert wanderers storm down 31 kingdoms of Canaan, of whom many likely had fortified cities, much better weapons, and much more military experience. And wasn't it for fear that the task was too big that got them relegated to the desert for 40 years in the first place?

Joshua commands the sun, and God "hearkens to the voice of a man," and it stays in its very place.

Hezekiah is beseiged by Sennacherib and his >100,000, and yet the angel of the Lord slaughters every last one of them.

Zechariah and Elizabeth were too old to have children.

Mary was not married and could not have a child, yet she would be the mother of God.

Israel was hardened against their Messiah, Christ has been crucified and was in the grave, then 50 days later there are 3,000 converted in a single day, and Christianity sweeps all the world. The religion that was foolishness to Greeks and a stumbling block to Jews overswept them all, and no amount of persecution could hold back the kingdom of God.

Scripture is filled from end to end of impossible things happening at the points where it seemed that nothing good could ever come of it.

If one can trump post-mil by exegesis, that's fair and right if the work is done soundly; but the difficulty can never be rightly used as an argument against it.

As said, a post-mil doesn't care how bad the first three quarters of the game are. It just means the rebound in the fourth quarter will be wondrously glorious.

But if anyone is going to knock post-mil, it needs to be knocked for reasons other than, "It just couldn't happen today." A world of things happened in Scripture that "just can't happen."

One day in Samaria, the city was under siege, and food was outrageously expensive, and women were eating their children. Then Elisha prophesies that the next day food would be abundant and cheap, to which the reply was "If the Lord should open the windows of heaven, can such a thing be?" 2 King 7:2. Well, it happened.

Abraham was promised an innumerable physical and spiritual seed.... when neither him nor his wife could even have kids.

200 years later, Abraham's family had not attained to any marvelous size. Then another 200 years later, millions leave Egypt despite the oppression of Pharaoh.

The quail, the river from the rock, the parting of the Red Sea when Pharaoh was about to slaughter all Israel once and for all.

Then these desert wanderers storm down 31 kingdoms of Canaan, of whom many likely had fortified cities, much better weapons, and much more military experience. And wasn't it for fear that the task was too big that got them relegated to the desert for 40 years in the first place?

Joshua commands the sun, and God "hearkens to the voice of a man," and it stays in its very place.

Hezekiah is beseiged by Sennacherib and his >100,000, and yet the angel of the Lord slaughters every last one of them.

Zechariah and Elizabeth were too old to have children.

Mary was not married and could not have a child, yet she would be the mother of God.

Israel was hardened against their Messiah, Christ has been crucified and was in the grave, then 50 days later there are 3,000 converted in a single day, and Christianity sweeps all the world. The religion that was foolishness to Greeks and a stumbling block to Jews overswept them all, and no amount of persecution could hold back the kingdom of God.

Scripture is filled from end to end of impossible things happening at the points where it seemed that nothing good could ever come of it.

If one can trump post-mil by exegesis, that's fair and right if the work is done soundly; but the difficulty can never be rightly used as an argument against it.
Please know,
you sound like a very kind nice man. Others far more qualified than I have done good exegetical work regarding why we who are Amil believe as we do.
 

dhh712

Puritan Board Freshman
I was the 6666th member and I'm postmill...
Thank you Nathan, for coming forward! : )

@Scottish Presbyterian @dhh712 @arapahoepark @Edward @nathanstenzel


In many Reformed circles these days whenever anything happens that seems like "END TIMES" signs we say "Bad Sign for Post Mill".

Though on a sad note, all of the tragedy and war that seems to only be getting worse, and the apostasies, and the seemingly ever increasing depravity, also leads to us saying "Bad Sign for Post Mill"

This is because those who hold to Post Millennial Eschatology believe things will keep getting better and eventually most will be saved prior to Christ returning.
Thanks for the explanation, Mair-- this all makes much more sense now.

Ah I see, just a misapprehension of what postmillennialists believe.

We don't believe the world is continuously getting better (I know Boettner wrote a book saying that's what postmillennialists believe, but it isn't). We do believe there will be a time of worldwide blessing prior to the end of the world, I suppose amil or premil folk might think that having 6,666 members on a Reformed internet forum diminishes the chances of this happening.

Sorry for making you explain your joke, I'm sure it was better for those who got it first time before you had to do that.
Thanks for explaining that further, Neil--the "Mil" debate (that doesn't seem the right word--question maybe? That seems better perhaps) is something I need to do more looking into. I'm not too familiar with any of them (hence why I would probably consider myself "Amil" but just because I really don't have a stance on the issue from the Bible much at all).

Hope it didn't detract from the joke too much! I'm always glad to learn new things on this board and this has been helpful!

It's all about perspective and what you are measuring. I'm not arguing either way, but I do find ironic how we hear that the world is getting so much worse

Other than pandemics, the most noticeable public health problem these days is obesity, not famine.

Total casualties from wars and conflicts in the world reach a monstrous peak during the 19th and 20th centuries, but seem to have tapered off since then.

But we get to hear about how bad things are much quicker and more often these days. Things weren't so rosy from a morality standpoint during the time of Paul in Corinth, or during the time of Ezekiel in Jerusalem, either.

I don't know how one could begin to measure the impact of the Gospel. I think any such effort would be thwarted by observational bias.

But the Gospel spreads, the wind blows where it will. May we see the churches full....
Why is this not letting me write anything? Okay, I just had to paste my reply to this in another post. I hate computers. I personally believe they are possessed by demons.
 

dhh712

Puritan Board Freshman
It's all about perspective and what you are measuring. I'm not arguing either way, but I do find ironic how we hear that the world is getting so much worse

Other than pandemics, the most noticeable public health problem these days is obesity, not famine.

Total casualties from wars and conflicts in the world reach a monstrous peak during the 19th and 20th centuries, but seem to have tapered off since then.

But we get to hear about how bad things are much quicker and more often these days. Things weren't so rosy from a morality standpoint during the time of Paul in Corinth, or during the time of Ezekiel in Jerusalem, either.

I don't know how one could begin to measure the impact of the Gospel. I think any such effort would be thwarted by observational bias.

But the Gospel spreads, the wind blows where it will. May we see the churches full....
My own perspective (of course extremely limited) is that things have gotten way better since way back when like OT times and what not. I think the whole "civil code" of the Israelites that non-believers gripe about supports that idea a lot. They look at those laws plastered upon the current times and are like "What? How can that be good?" And then they put God on the stand and use these things to say he is really twisted (just had someone reply to my non-combative post on another message board with this fodder. I bury my face in my hands and think "is it really worth it to go into why this is with this guy?" By the tone of his post he looks like he has it out for God and no logical talk will do any good).

But yeah, it seems pretty clear that we hear about practically everything that happens that is wrong or evil these days because of how instant everything is. So by that, it seems that everywhere there are so many messed up things going on (but we just didn't hear about it before). However, the problem I see with the spreading of the news of these horrors is that it gives people enslaved to Satan whom God has not restrained their heart ideas which they may not have had before.

My overall opinion though is that with the spread of Christianity and Jesus' message to love your neighbor as yourself (despite the twisted ways this has been interpreted), the entire world has been affected by the sharing of God's love through genuine believers and that has overall made the world a far better place than it was hundreds of years ago.
 
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