Game of Thrones

[Pittzburghkid]

I thoroughly enjoy The HBO series Game of Thrones. Recently a brother suggested that watching a show like that is pushing my Christian freedom to the limit. He suggested Paul's warning that although all things are lawful not all are beneficial. I understand this warning but personally feel no increased lust for blood or sex when viewing the shows more violent or explicit scenes. Does anyone have any wisdom to share when it comes to navigating media?

 

[Cymro]

Don't know what the show is,but Paul would counsel, whatsoever things are
true, whatsoever things are honest, just, pure, lovely, of good report, if there be any virtue,
and if there be any praise, THINK on these things. Your brother, is a brother indeed.

 

[Sylvanus]

How do you measure an increase in lust? Could you watch it with your spouse?

"Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. For it is shameful even to speak of the things that they do in secret...Look carefully then how you walk, not as unwise but as wise, making the best use of the time, because the days are evil." -Eph 5:11...16

It's worth considering if you can watch something with what is essentially p0rnography (from what I can tell on IMDB), and read those verses with a clear conscience.

 

[Piano Hero]

I don't personally watch Game of Thrones (a little too violent for me, and yeah, there's a lot of sex in it), but there's other shows/movies I watch that I know some would have objection to, but it doesn't personally bother me in most cases.

I guess it depends on why you're watching it. And it's a good idea to take into consideration the moral values presented elsewhere in whatever show/movie it is. For example, I don't have much issue watching Braveheart (which is pretty tame compared to GoT), despite some crude language and lots of violence, because it presents a worthy story about them fighting for their freedom. Whereas something like, say, The Hangover movie (which I've not seen), might be 'hilarious', but what's the goal of it, except to be about a bunch of people who get drunk in Vegas?

In some cases, shows are violent or sexual just for the sake of being violent and sexual. But is that the entire point of whatever the program is?

 

[Hamalas]

I personally would never watch GoT. However, if you do decide to watch it why not self-edit as you go? For example turn your head or fastforward during the sex scenes (because whether or not you can trace an increase in lust is not really the issue, the issue is that God commands us not to put such things before our eyes and hearts). I've never understood why people who say they are watching this or that show for "the good parts" don't do what they can to avoid "the bad parts". Just my

 

[raydixon9]

I heard a pastor comment one time that the war/violence in a movie thats a historical drama like Braveheart or Saving Private (even a fictional drama like Game of Thrones might fit here) would be okay as it is trying to present the reality of the situation but you knew no one was actually getting hurt. Off course the slasher film that is just trying to show gross violence should be avoided. He did have a problem with sensational sex scenes and especially nudity because the actor/actress was actually nude. This is where Game of Thrones might fall short.

Just passing that thought along.

 

[FenderPriest]

I'm not comfortable with the show given how much sexually explicit material is in it. I can't speak to your own soul brother on the issue. I do think that a general Scriptural principle for TV and movies is that godliness isn't measured by how much sin it can tolerate.

 

[Elizabeth]

I read something once that made a great deal of sense to me re: sexual scenes in movies and what-not. Can't recall who put this forth, but it's what I tell anyone asking me about limits on these sorts of thing: Would you feel comfortable watching those people acting that way 'live' in your living room? If not, you probably shouldn't be watching it.

 

[Unoriginalname]

I just thought it was just a softcore p0rn about people killing each other.

 

[Pergamum]

Somebody (a Christian) suggested this show to me and so I tried it without reading any Christian reviews of it beforehand (I was stoked because I thought it was medieval..but I guess it is more fantasy)...and I think I got 4-5 minutes into the first episode before I concluded that it was not lawful. The objectionable materials appear so quickly that I do not think it is practical or wise to "self-edit." So, as is the custom, we scratched or broke the disc and have not bought any more of it. HOWEVER, as a male, once you witness nudity or provocative tv, the damage is already done and those images are stored in the brain. Furthermore, if we take these things as "light things" only and think it is no big deal and thus encourage other struggling Christian brothers to try out such a show, I believe you might contribute to their sin/fall. I would steer well clear!

 

[Jack K]

I haven't seen that show, aside from a few clips, but I think I know what sort of show it is... and it does seem to be pushing the limits so far as what a godly person can consider praiseworthy. I don't believe it's automatically a sin to watch such a show (there's freedom, as you say), but if we're going to exercise that freedom we ought to have a godly reason for doing so—some other, godly goal that makes the ugliness worth it and in some sense redeems it. If our only goal is entertaining ourselves, I'm not sure that's a godly reason to watch.

I end up watching junk too often. It's HARD to avoid entertaining material. I constantly have to remind myself not to ask, "Is this allowed?" but rather, "Is this praiseworthy?" Our freedom in Christ does not exist so that we can cozy up as close as possible to sin so long as it doesn't seem to be affecting us too much, but rather so that we can run with abandon toward what is good.

Let me say again that I struggle with this. I'm not telling you what to do from the perspective of a holier person who's above it all. Rather, I'm a fellow TV/movie watcher who's tempted to say right along with you, "I can indulge in this; it might be bad for some people but not me—I can handle it." Hmm. If that's true, does it mean that I'm stronger than the typical Christian, or that I just have a puny view of how different from the world I must be when I am in Christ?

 

[littlepeople]

WWJD? I mean that playfully, but it's probably a helpful question for you to answer to yourself. On a serious note, I have a friend who is probably about to lose his family over dark things in secret he has been into. I think this show and "true blood" played a part in hardening his conscience over time and normalizing what should be considered grotesque and horrific. If you were my friend I would tell you to go elsewhere for entertainment.

 

[Philpot]

From what I have heard and seen, GoT has frequent nudity and explicit sexual content. Though you may be able to partake of such things without stumbling, I would question the wisdom of taking such a risk. Is it worth watching sex scenes and nude prostitutes regularly for the sake of a "good story"? Or could that time not be better served in something else that didn't contain pornographic images? I can't judge your heart, but self-examination might be in order. Has the show ever once caused you to lust? It seems that it would be fairly easy for it to do so, and if so, it also seems that it would be worth putting away.

 

[py3ak]

Perhaps three questions will help to sort through the issue.

Is there such a thing as content that is unacceptable for a Christian, and what is it?
Second, is there a way of presenting particular content that makes it unacceptable, and what is that?
Once those general questions are answered, you can ask, third, is it good to "thoroughly enjoy" the content and method of presentation of Game of Thrones?

 

[Edward]

It's not an issue for me, because I don't find paying for HBO to be good stewardship of my resources. There may be something beneficial on there (Band of Brothers comes to mind) but I can wait until something like that is available through another outlet. And most of what is on HBO that can't be viewed elsewhere (although you might have to wait a few weeks or months) is garbage.

 

[Free Christian]

Good post/thread.
I have been seriously questioning my choice of viewing over recent months. I love a good comedian, but as soon as they talk smut, use Gods name, or start swearing I turn them off. The same is now going for any other show I watch. As someone mentioned here, what goes in stays in. What value at all can anyone gain from watching such things? How on earth can watching someone swearing their heads off and cursing Gods name be of any value whatsoever? The world is full of enough violence as it is, why would I want to watch people hack others up, curse our Lord, use language that the Bible says to avoid?
Ask yourself this, If Christ was standing beside you, would you keep watching it or turn it off?

 

[Andres]

Recently a brother suggested that watching a show like that is pushing my Christian freedom to the limit. He suggested Paul's warning that although all things are lawful not all are beneficial. I understand this warning but personally feel no increased lust for blood or sex when viewing the shows more violent or explicit scenes.

Your friend is right. Take his advice and the other's on this thread and find a better TV show to watch. Another factor to consider is that you are the head of your household. During a recent time of men's fellowship, we discussed that as those in leadership, it is our job to set an example in holiness for those we lead. I commend you on even bringing this question up because it says to me that your conscience is in fact bothered some by what you've seen. Be encouraged that God will help you to glorify Him in every area of your life, including entertainment.

 

[Pergamum]

I love and respect my father. But I remember as a kid growing up that some viewing choices were not monitored well, and we had permissive viewing habits. I still remember some of those images seen on tv as a kid even now. Now that we are preparing to spend 10-11 months in the USA on furlough (leaving next month), I am afraid of how to raise Noah (9) without constant bombardment of sexual images, even to include suggestive commercials and those magazines at the grocery store aisle with pretty airbrushed models. I think we lie to ourselves if we think this sort of thing does not impact us as males. Unless somebody pre-watched the entire series and deleted each and every questionable scene from Games of Thrones, I am not sure how one could watch even the first whole episode.

 

[InSlaveryToChrist]

I think there is a world of difference between watching violence and/or sex from TV for their own sake and watching them as a part of a TV show to understand/experience the whole story/message behind it. Same with the Bible; there is violence and sex, but they are there for a reason.

 

[kvanlaan]

We do not have a TV hooked up per se, so we only watch movies. I don't know this Game of Thrones, but it doesn't seem profitable. For those who do want to watch it without the 'self edit' (which only works part time, I am guessing) I would recommend Clear Play (they do have filters for this show). We have it, it works well. But it is a key to watching more of the world's productions, not less. I just can't stand the Lord's name taken in vain and the sex in so many of these shows. Yes, I am focusing on those two sins and leaving out others entirely. But I just can stand it, so this is how we handle it. It is indeed like someone watches the entire series/movie and deletes everything objectionable. It really is. Second down side? I think there's a Mormon connection, so you may be supporting the work of Satan in Salt Lake and elsewhere by supporting them (not entirely sure on the direct support, but its likely; something we found out a couple years after we started using it). Just my $.02 for those who find themselves in a bind in this way.

 

[Free Christian]

Same with the Bible; there is violence and sex, but they are there for a reason.

Hi Samuel. But what Biblical message are we being taught watching people kill others, or having sex on a TV program? I know rape is abhorrent, how does seeing it on a show, for example, teach me anything? I don't need to see some ones insides hanging out to understand that killing is wrong! What does hearing Christs name being used profanely teach me? I know its wrong without having to hear it repeated over and over! There is a world of difference to Bible lessons and gratuitous sex and violence on a TV program or movie. We are told to avoid such things, violent people, profane language and so on. For women to dress modestly etc. What justification do we have to expose ourselves to the things we are told to avoid?

 

[Hamalas]

I constantly have to remind myself not to ask, "Is this allowed?" but rather, "Is this praiseworthy?"

This is a wonderful point. Thanks for sharing.

Also, just to clarify about my self-editing comment, I've never watched GoT and simply mention the self-edit thing as a general comment. It sounds like that would not be enough to allow the watching of this show.

 

[Tripel]

I end up watching junk too often. It's HARD to avoid entertaining material.

Quite true. It's hard. At least it is for me.
I really enjoy the story-telling in Game of Thrones. I read the first book in the series and was very excited about the TV series on HBO. I watched the first 4 or 5 episodes, but the sex was far too gratuitous and was requiring a lot of fast-forwarding, so I gave up. I'm rather disappointed in the series. There is some sex in the book, but I thought it was pretty simple to skim over. But with the HBO series, they do more than just include sex -- they obsess over it. Again, it's gratuitous, and that's too bad because it's a really enjoyable story.

Usually I'm on the liberal end of these kinds of issues and I'm often guilty of clutching too tightly to my Christian freedom. But with GoT, not even I could justify it.

 

[Frosty]

Your friend is doing a good thing. And there are plenty of better options out there, especially if you have Netflix, On Demand, or any similar program.

We recently had to give up on a show because it was no longer in line with our Christian conscience. Our friend swore by How I Met Your Mother, so we tried it and thought it was pretty funny-not terrific by any means, but worth giving an extended look.

Although the show is on network TV, it soon became apparent that every single episode was packed with sexual jokes, sex outside of marriage, and the glorification of the one-night stand lifestyle.

Also, in its very few references to Christianity, it presents it in an unsavory way that was intended to mock Christians/Christianity.

It was an easy decision to cut the chord on that one.

 

[InSlaveryToChrist]

Same with the Bible; there is violence and sex, but they are there for a reason.

Hi Samuel. But what Biblical message are we being taught watching people kill others, or having sex on a TV program? I know rape is abhorrent, how does seeing it on a show, for example, teach me anything? I don't need to see some ones insides hanging out to understand that killing is wrong! What does hearing Christs name being used profanely teach me? I know its wrong without having to hear it repeated over and over! There is a world of difference to Bible lessons and gratuitous sex and violence on a TV program or movie. We are told to avoid such things, violent people, profane language and so on. For women to dress modestly etc. What justification do we have to expose ourselves to the things we are told to avoid?

Why do Christians watch anything from TV then? Violence and sex are not sinful in and of themselves, they can be a means to a blessed end. "What Biblical message are we being taught watching people kill others, or having sex on a TV program," you ask? That was exactly my point! There is no meaning to these things in and of themselves, but if you put all the parts of a TV show/movie together, you get a whole story with a meaningful message. Why show blood, you ask? To make it look real! Of course you can hide your eyes, if you can't watch, but that's the whole point! That's how you communicate how vile violence can be.

If you are not a master over these things, then I suggest you don't go near them. And if your neighbour can't control these things, then you must not tempt him to sin.

 

[Elizabeth]

That's how you communicate how vile violence can be.

So is this how violence/sex outside marriage is portrayed in GOT? As purely vile acts? I've never watched the show, so have no idea.

 

[Hamalas]

Why do Christians watch anything from TV then? Violence and sex are not sinful in and of themselves, they can be a means to a blessed end. "What Biblical message are we being taught watching people kill others, or having sex on a TV program," you ask? That was exactly my point! There is no meaning to these things in and of themselves, but if you put all the parts of a TV show/movie together, you get a whole story with a meaningful message. Why show blood, you ask? To make it look real! Of course you can hide your eyes, if you can't watch, but that's the whole point! That's how you communicate how vile violence can be.

If you are not a master over these things, then I suggest you don't go near them. And if your neighbour can't control these things, then you must not tempt him to sin.

There is a big difference between the sex and violence portrayed in say Aeschylus's The Oresteia and an episode of some contemporary show. First off the medium does affect the message and there is a difference between reading about sex and violence (as one might with classical literature or even the Bible) and seeing the whole thing played out in explicit and gory detail before our eyes. Second, in Scripture or in other worthwhile works the sex and violence we see are quite pointedly showing the consequences of sin rather than glorifying sin. So does the inclusion of sex and violence automatically mean a particular book, picture, movie, etc... is worthless? No, but neither does it make it worthwhile or even neutral. Sometimes people say they watch these graphic depictions of sin in order to "understand" or "appreciate" sin. Really? If you have to manufacture examples of sin to better appreciate it you have not understood your own heart and you are probably not ministering in a way that allows you to see and confront the sins of those around you.

I'm not arguing that we abandon all TV or movies just because they portray sin, but how they portray it and why it is portrayed are vital questions that must be considered.

 

[DeniseM]

I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me. Psalm 101:3

I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid? Job 31:1

 

[Reformed Covenanter]

It might be helpful to restrict this discussion to the issue of sex/nudity, as otherwise we could open a distracting can-of-worms.

Perhaps you can rationalise away watching depictions of naked women or other people engaging in sexual intercourse by arguing that "it doesn't affect me". Let us pretend that for the sake of argument it does not cause you to have lustful and unclean thoughts (though I personally find it hard to believe that anyone can watch such things without it leading to an increase in sinful lusts). That consideration, however, is not the end of the matter.

Another question you need to ask yourself is this: how would I feel if it was my daughter exposing her nakedness in front of millions of people? Even though I have no children, I imagine that if it was my daughter I would be deeply hurt by even the thought of millions of people watching her engaging in something that she should only be doing with her husband in private. Now, if I would not be happy about other people watching my daughter engage in pornographic activity, then how can I possibly justify watching other people's daughters engaging in the very same activity that I would not want people watching my daughter engaging in? If you ignore this consideration, then you are not loving your neighbour as yourself or doing unto others as you would have them do unto you.

 

[SeanPatrickCornell]

I would say that if the question arises about whether something is appropriate or not, and you have to ask it, then it's probably not appropriate.

I have recently given up a LOT of shows because of my convictions on the matter, and some were shows I enjoyed a great deal.