Genuine help for those enslaved to sexual immorality and self gratification

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Blue Tick

Puritan Board Graduate
Mr.Wretched,

I am not married but I would believe and suggest that if there is anyone that a married person who is in bondage with such sins should confess and be accountable to, it should be his wife. To deceive and hide the matter would be sinning against her even more in my opinion. Our spouse, if we are married, should eventually become our number one accountability partner.
I would gently suggest that this is not a healthy way to build a strong marriage.
 

Amazing Grace

Puritan Board Junior
Election
6. We believe that God, in Christ, before the foundation of the world and for His own glory, did elect an innumerable number of mankind to eternal life as an act of His grace and an expression of His love; and that this election was in no way dependent upon His foresight of their faith, decision, works, or merit.


Am I missing something, or is there really an innumerable number?

Anyways, I commend them for trying to grow the body of Christ and bring it into maturity. They like Dr. Piper quite a bit.
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
 

PuritanCovenanter

Moderator
Staff member
Election
6. We believe that God, in Christ, before the foundation of the world and for His own glory, did elect an innumerable number of mankind to eternal life as an act of His grace and an expression of His love; and that this election was in no way dependent upon His foresight of their faith, decision, works, or merit.


Am I missing something, or is there really an innumerable number?

Anyways, I commend them for trying to grow the body of Christ and bring it into maturity. They like Dr. Piper quite a bit.
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Innumberable number and a great multitude which no man could number are two different things.

Sorry for getting off topic.

*** MODERATOR NOTE***

BTW, Meg was wondering if this thread should be moved to the Men's tool shed. I share the same concerns with her. But this is an important issue that does plague many men and a few women. I have decided to leave this in Spiritual Warfare for right now because it can be informative and it has not become graphic or lude in my opinion.

There are differences in how men and women react to things of this nature. Men and women are wired differently and the better we understand this the better we will be at dealing with this kind of situation. What tempts one person may not be a temptation for another person. We are all tempted in like manner but over specifically different issues. And part of these differences have to do with our distinction of whether we are male or female. We are each formed with different inclinations. Therefore our sensualistic temptations vary a bit also. This is a maturity issue. And I truly believe in a general sense that the older maturer woman should teach the younger women in these kinds of issues.

(Tit 2:3) The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

(Tit 2:4) That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

(Tit 2:5) To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
I also believe that the older men should teach the younger men also. I believe Titus 2 bares this out also.

Also let me remind everyone what St. Paul wrote to us.

(Eph 5:1) Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

(Eph 5:2) And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

(Eph 5:3) But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

(Eph 5:4) Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

(Eph 5:5) For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

(Eph 5:6) Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

(Eph 5:7) Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
 

SRoper

Puritan Board Graduate
I'm not married, but I'm surprised that some seem to be saying that we should hide things from our wives.
 

wretchedworm

Puritan Board Freshman
I can understand the concerns that some of you have raised regarding accountability to a wife. At first, I thought this was a minority, but then more started to feel the same way.

In all honesty, after all the replies, you guys have shattered and destroyed my concept of marriage. It makes me wonder why do we even get married in the first place if there are no accountability factor involved. Isn't the wife and husband supposed to love each other as Christ loved the church? Marriage is a physical and spiritual representation on earth of the union that we have with God. Isn't the spouse the person we can share all our troubles to? We don't hid anything from God in our relationship, so isn't hidding something from a spouse contrary to that. To hid what God has gloriously did to redeem those who were once in bondage from even the person who after God, is the one who we should be closest too, makes me feel like the other half is just like any other ordinary person.

I can understand that it may not be a wise thing to confess immediately but in the long run shouldn't that be the goal if one has truly been freed and yearns to seek forgiveness from a spouse? To hid the matter just because we think that it can 'better serve and maintain' a marriage this way seems to me a selfish reason. If there is something that is hidden in a marriage, isn't that a weak marriage instead, being fearful all your life that your past would be exposed? If i was married, I would rather be the one telling my spouse than for my spouse to find out herself of my past one day accidentally, if that happened.

The single biggest truth that the Way of Purity course has taught is that the motive we seek to be free is to GLORIFY GOD. If one has truly been set free and yet cannot even tell that to a spouse, isn't that denying God's Glory? Are we so afraid of what man may think rather than declaring God's glory?
It makes me sad to think that I should not be telling my future wife if i ever do get married, of all the glories that God has done in my life.
 
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PuritanCovenanter

Moderator
Staff member
I am not ignoring you guys. But I want to see what the others might contribute who are married and who might be Elders in their Churches. I will say this. Not all wives are mature enough to handle this burden. They are helpmeets but that doesn't mean God will utilize them in every area of a mans life. And that goes visa versa also.

BTW, I use to be a hopeless Romantic also. There is the picture you paint in your mind of marriage as it should be and then there is the true picture of marriage this side of heaven. Two sinners becoming one. :D
 

ReformationArt

Puritan Board Freshman
Some very dangerous and poor advice is being given in this thread. Husbands are joined together in covenant with their wife so that the two become one flesh, which is a picture of Christ and the church. p0rnography is adultery.

Matthew 5:27-28 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Sexual sin of one spouse is the business of the other spouse. Sexual sin of one spouse is sin against God and a violation of the covenant bond between husband and wife.

To advise a Christian who has sinned against someone to not confess their sin and seek forgiveness from those they have sinned against contradicts Scripture.

Advising men to not confess their sin to women based upon gender is shameful. That is much like parents I've met who refuse to apologize to their children and seek their forgiveness for sinning against them.

Now it is normally the case that a couple struggling with these sins needs to seek outside counsel and help, normally from their pastor or a member of the session. However, they must work through the sin together to have true reconciliation for the glory of Christ, who has reconciled us to the Father through his active and passive obedience (Romans 5:11). It is because of Christ's work, we can and must do the hard work of waging war against sin, seeking forgiveness for those whom we sin against, and seeking to forgive those who sin against us. It is difficult, and often messy, and sometimes one or both parties isn't willing. However, as Christians we have no other option!
 

wretchedworm

Puritan Board Freshman
Some very dangerous and poor advice is being given in this thread. Husbands are joined together in covenant with their wife so that the two become one flesh, which is a picture of Christ and the church. p0rnography is adultery.

Matthew 5:27-28 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Sexual sin of one spouse is the business of the other spouse. Sexual sin of one spouse is sin against God and a violation of the covenant bond between husband and wife.

To advise a Christian who has sinned against someone to not confess their sin and seek forgiveness from those they have sinned against contradicts Scripture.

Advising men to not confess their sin to women based upon gender is shameful. That is much like parents I've met who refuse to apologize to their children and seek their forgiveness for sinning against them.

Now it is normally the case that a couple struggling with these sins needs to seek outside counsel and help, normally from their pastor or a member of the session. However, they must work through the sin together to have true reconciliation for the glory of Christ, who has reconciled us to the Father through his active and passive obedience (Romans 5:11). It is because of Christ's work, we can and must do the hard work of waging war against sin, seeking forgiveness for those whom we sin against, and seeking to forgive those who sin against us. It is difficult, and often messy, and sometimes one or both parties isn't willing. However, as Christians we have no other option!
Thank you so much.
I really needed to hear that.
For a moment there my faith was almost stumbled.
 

moral necessity

Puritan Board Junior
I won't labor too much, for I desire to speak rather of our similarities and of encouragement, and I do think we have such on many, many things, dear brother Andrew. I value your input and opinions regardless, knowing that we all, me especially, see through a glass darkly at best, and our understandings are still darkened, and show our continual need of grace.

I don't think we were trying to advocate an abstinance of sharing things with one's wife, as much as we were about sharing things with the appropriate people. Even Paul himself, as Wretchedworm quoted, advised and commanded that those who are spiritually mature are to put the attention towards the restoration of a brother (Gal. 6), and he, as well as Christ, also said that we are not to lay stumbling stones in front of our brothers and sisters. A few examples may clear my point. What if one's wife was an alcoholic and the husband was one as well, yet he was further along in his recovery than she was? Should he go to her for counsel and lean on her for support when he found himself failing? I'm sure you wouldn't advocate this, just as I wouldn't. What if one's wife was addicted to p0rnography as well, for some actually are? Now they're both committing adultery, you would say. Would you advise that both of them begin accountability sessions with one another, knowing that the probability is that both will stumble and fall, and will probably become more entrenched in this sin? Surely you wouldn't advise this, just as I wouldn't. At least, in your way of understanding it, there ought to be two conflicting commands here; one to confess to your wife and one to not lead her to stumble or sin. Which should be followed?

That's the main thrust of my entire posts on the issue. It's not so much that I advocate being secretive from your wife; it's just that I see a danger in not being discretionary. It is factual that women have a different wiring then men do, with regard to this issue, and with all facets of how they function and view things. And, I think it wise to take that into consideration, just as I would want them to do the same for me as well. I wouldn't expect them to come to me with their sins that only a woman can understand and help them with. And, furthermore, if one uses the logic of covenant connection to bring about the conclusion that one must confess certain sins to their wives, and vice-versa, then, in my opinioin, we're not too far off from maintaining that we must also confess certain sins to every brother and sister within the body of Christ, for aren't we are all in covenant together with him as our head (as communion displays)? In some regard, there must actually be a covenant connection between you and I and every other brother (though much different than a husband and wife), for we are all both members of the same body also, just as a husband and wife are. We are one body too, that of which Christ is the head, and my sin truly does affect this body of Christ, and so it does affect you. My sin is, in some sense then a sin against Christ and his body, for when I sin, I am corrupting this body of Christ with poison, and am therfore contaminating it with sin, and leading it to stumble and fall. Paul uses a similar comparison in I Cor. 6 with regard to joining the members of your body to a prostitute. He say, "Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the membes of Christ and make them members of a prostitute?...the sexually immoral person sins against his own body." Knowing that this verse specifically refers to individual people's bodies, I think that there can be just as much of a case made to say that what I do with my body affects the body of Christ as a whole, and in some sense, a spiritual adultery is taking place whever I commit some sin, just as God viewed Israel of committing spiritual adultery with him whenever they sinned. Within my local body, if I'm engaged in any sin for seasons upon seasons of time, it will certainly have an influence upon the members of the body I am with. An injection of poison into the arm will soon spread to affect the leg. And, this scripture and that of Eph. 5 , coupled with that of Jesus' prayer in Jn.17 necessitates, in my opinion, the same argument that you make with husbands and wives, for the comparison is of the oneness of husbands and wives to the oneness of Christ and the Church, and his prayer in Jn.17 is that we as brothers and sisters have this same oneness with one another as Christ even has with the Father. Christ has united himself to us and become one in body and covenant with us all, making us all members of one another in covenant. I say, in my opinion, that this covenant is even stronger than the covenant of marriage, for marriage is a carnal covenant, for it can be had between non-believers, and this of Christ and his Church is a spiritual one. Therefore, how do I get away from not confessing every sin to every single brother out there, since we are all in spiritual convenant together (as communion illustrates) and not just in carnal covenant together? If I must do so for a carnal covenant, ought I not do so even more for a spiritual one? And, if a carnal adultery demands such a confession, ought not a spiritual one demand the same?

Therefore, in my opinion, if I view confession as mandated because of the covenant confession argument, we have a lot of confession that we must do. So, in response to this, I refer to David's words, when he said to God, "Against you and you only have I sinned." He had just committed murder and adultery, and had been living in it for about a year, and he concludes that he only sinned against God? Why didn't he say that he sinned against Bathsheba's husband Uriah, having caused her to break the covenant she had with him? He said specifically that his sin was against God only, not against God and Uriah both. He didn't even say that he had committed sin against any of his other wives who he was married to at the time. And, no mention is made of his confession to them. That's why, in my understanding, I wonder if the entire concept of confession might not be for a different purpose. In some sense, there is no sin that we do against people at all, for sin must be a violation of a standard or rule that some lawgiver had the authority to make in the first place. There is only one Lawgiver with that authority to do so, and that is God, and "only God can forgive sins" as scripture says. So, all sin is against God and him only, though, in a 'tongue and cheek' manner, we say that sin is against one another. What we really, legally, before God in his court mean, in my opinion, is that our sin against God involved me not keeping an agreement between some other person, and a negative consequence ensued. Otherwise, how do we reconcile David's words?

So, I personally am for confession of sin to one another, but not because they are my Lawgiver and that I owe them a confession as such; and not because I am in covenant with them, for then I personally am convinced that I must confess to all brothers and sisters first and foremost, because they are in spiritual covenant with me, and marriage is a carnal one. I feel it honorable to confess my sins to one another, and I think that we ought to right our wrongs that we have done, for I think we ought to show such respect and pursue such oneness. But, I think confession in general is commanded of us for a higher end, namely that we "pray for one another", as James 5 says. The goal of confession is that more people understand how to best pray for us, and that we understand how to best pray for them, so that we both engage in that process of prayer for one another, and ask God for grace on their behalf, as I Jn. 5:16 says. Lastly, if your wife asked you if she looked fat, and you lie about it and say that she doesn't look fat, are you going to go back to her later and say, "honey, I lied to you when you asked me that...you are fat"?

Please believe me, I am on your side, brother. I agree that confession is appropriate and necessary. Let's fellowship on these and more important similarities. Besides, it's good for people to know of the different opinions that we have with regard to issues. It gives them more to think through, and, perhaps they may be wiser than both of us and show us a more accurate way.

Blessings to you!
 
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PuritanCovenanter

Moderator
Staff member
Some very dangerous and poor advice is being given in this thread. Husbands are joined together in covenant with their wife so that the two become one flesh, which is a picture of Christ and the church. p0rnography is adultery.

Matthew 5:27-28 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Sexual sin of one spouse is the business of the other spouse. Sexual sin of one spouse is sin against God and a violation of the covenant bond between husband and wife.

To advise a Christian who has sinned against someone to not confess their sin and seek forgiveness from those they have sinned against contradicts Scripture.

Advising men to not confess their sin to women based upon gender is shameful. That is much like parents I've met who refuse to apologize to their children and seek their forgiveness for sinning against them.

Now it is normally the case that a couple struggling with these sins needs to seek outside counsel and help, normally from their pastor or a member of the session. However, they must work through the sin together to have true reconciliation for the glory of Christ, who has reconciled us to the Father through his active and passive obedience (Romans 5:11). It is because of Christ's work, we can and must do the hard work of waging war against sin, seeking forgiveness for those whom we sin against, and seeking to forgive those who sin against us. It is difficult, and often messy, and sometimes one or both parties isn't willing. However, as Christians we have no other option!
I disagree and have seen your position become ruinous to relationships. I have heard of divorce being sought after because of p0rnography being compared to physical adultery. While I know this is adultery it is not as serious as the act of physical adultery between two persons. Divorce is permitted in that case I believe. But divorce is not permissible for just lusting after another person. Yes, I believe in levels of sin.

I am not condoning an unrepentant attitude. Nor am I condoning something on the level of a sinful parent who violates a child and doesn't repent and apologize. That is apples and oranges. A man should confide in his Elders and close brothers first and then if his wife is considered mature enough to handle the situation she should be involved.

We just might have to disagree on this one.
 
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Reformed Covenanter

Puritanboard Commissioner
Some very dangerous and poor advice is being given in this thread. Husbands are joined together in covenant with their wife so that the two become one flesh, which is a picture of Christ and the church. p0rnography is adultery.
Are you saying brother that a man must confess every lustful thought that he ever has to his wife?
 

Stephen

Puritan Board Junior
Some very dangerous and poor advice is being given in this thread. Husbands are joined together in covenant with their wife so that the two become one flesh, which is a picture of Christ and the church. p0rnography is adultery.
Are you saying brother that a man must confess every lustful thought that he ever has to his wife?
That would mean that every married man on PuritanBoard and throughtout the worldwide church should be confessing to their wives, or some are liars.
 

CDM

Puritan Board Junior
Since we're on the topic of "confessing to one's wife" what about the daily sins we commit in thought, word, and deed that are NOT adultery (7th comm.)?

Why should we just confess the sin of lust to our wives?

It seems many here are elevating violations of the 7th commandment above violations of the rest. The WLC would do well here.
 

shackleton

Puritan Board Junior
McAfee with parental controls and giving your wife the password works really well. It lets you specifically name site that you want blocked out. It even block out the adds that pop up with Google bloggs that are snuk in there because it also blocks all questionable pictures.

Norton with parental controls works pretty well too.
 

ReformationArt

Puritan Board Freshman
I apologize for dissappearing the last 2 weeks. Things have been crazy here, and I had to replace the water and gas pipes to my house unexpectedly.....

I don't have time at the moment to deal with all of the comments above to my previous post, however, I don't believe many of them deal fairly with what I said, and some ridiculous (in my opinion) conclusions are reached.

Here's some more food for thought:

1 Corinthians 7:4 For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.

This verse is in the context of dealing with conjugal rights between husband and wife, however, with sexual sin (sin committed against the body (1 Cor. 6:18), it directly involves the spouse, per the unity (two become one flesh) of the marriage covenant.
 
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