Ghosts and haunted houses

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BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Amanuensis
I do not see any evidence by the scriptures that those who are really saved can be demon possessed!
I don't think anyone is claiming that. Paul does warn, however, not to give Satan a foothold, which I think is a bit stronger than having negative thoughts.
 

earl40

Puritan Board Professor
Does he have power to do supernatural activities, such as hauntings, fake ghosts, etc though?
The only two people in scripture who literally saw satan were Jesus and Eve. Also the way Eve saw satan was through the medium of a snake. Our Lord in my opinion saw satan in his essence. Now do I think that satan manifest himself in a form we can see today? My answer would be yes. Every time you see something or someone that causes you to sin you have seen edit....(the work) of the devil, though not the devil such as Eve or Jesus saw. Now do I believe people really see fake ghosts? My answer is that the mind can conjure up many images that are not really there.
 
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BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Amanuensis
Forgive me if I've missed something. Has anyone been saying that Satan's influence only extends as far as negative thoughts?
That's the issue. "Power," Satan's in this case, has been left undefined. A few years ago some posters implied that demonic activity, even in Jesus' day, was just mental illness and not really real.

Does Satan's power affect the physical space-time realm? That's the crux of the issue.
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Amanuensis
We can get a certain idea of Satan's original structure. He was a cherub. And the term nachash connoted, among other things, a shining appearance. It also connoted serpentine qualities, since Nachash can function as a substantival adjective.

So basically we have a shining, standing serpentine figure
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Amanuensis
In case any is interested. This is from the world's authority on Syriac Christianity. He is speaking of how angels--and by extension, the demonic--are interpreted in the Syriac tradition. What makes this interesting is that it is filtering the Hebrew/Aramaic tradition while bypassing many of the ambiguities in Greek thought. Unfortunately, you can only watch the video (and he is kind of funny to look at). You can't download it. If you can download it, please let me know.
https://sms.cam.ac.uk/media/1534993
https://sms.cam.ac.uk/media/1535000
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
I don't think anyone is claiming that. Paul does warn, however, not to give Satan a foothold, which I think is a bit stronger than having negative thoughts.
I agree that even Christians can be affected by the Enemy if we permit him to get into our lives, but that to me is still far different from actually being possessed. Some ministries claim to be in a delivering Christians from being demon possessed now, and that is what I just do not agree as being found in the Bible.
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
The only two people in scripture who literally saw satan were Jesus and Eve. Also the way Eve saw satan was through the medium of a snake. Our Lord in my opinion saw satan in his essence. Now do I think that satan manifest himself in a form we can see today? My answer would be yes. Every time you see something or someone that causes you to sin you have seen edit....(the work) of the devil, though not the devil such as Eve or Jesus saw. Now do I believe people really see fake ghosts? My answer is that the mind can conjure up many images that are not really there.
Do you think that demons can be some of the time behind so call hauntings, ghosts, poltergeist activities etc?
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Amanuensis
Some ministries claim to be in a delivering Christians from being demon possessed now, and that is what I just do not agree as being found in the Bible.
A better word is "demonized," rather than "possessed." Possessed is a slippery term. It seems to be akin to auto-writing or something.
 

Alan D. Strange

Puritan Board Senior
Every culture believes in ghosts and haunted houses. Even some in the NT thought Jesus was a ghost/spirit and also Peter.

Why the universal cultural belief in ghosts and what are they?

Every culture also believes in haunted or enchanted places or houses or relics.

What is true?
This discussion seems to have gone--immediately, really--far afield from this question, although since the original poster participated so heartily in the discussion, perhaps not.

I think that the question, as put, should be answered along these lines: There is a universal belief in the unseen and spiritual because we are created in the image of God. Part of the broader image, as many theologians have argued (along with things like personality, rationality, morality, authority, and creativity), is spirituality. Man is a spiritual being, having eternity in his heart, and he knows that there is something more in the world than what one simply sees. He knows that there is an unseen reality. Though he may be a naturalist, in his heart of hearts, being marked at the core of his being with spirituality (God is a Spirit), he is not truly anti-supernaturalistic, whatever he professes to be.

However, man in his unregenerate state, suppressing the truth as he does, perverts the supernatural. He ends us adoring Satan and his minions, either directly (in rarer cases) or indirectly (in most cases, including the false religions and Christian cults). As a part of his perverted supernatural beliefs, he turn to all sorts of things instead of God.

Some of these things may involve really existing evil spirits and some fictional ones. It doesn't matter whether the particular evil characters are real or not because it is the Creator, who alone is to be worshiped and adored, and not the creation (malevolent spirits real or imagined).

There is a universal belief in the supernatural and it manifests itself either in truth (with one worshipping the true and living God) or in falsehood (one worshipping the creation, under whatever rubrics, rather than the Creator).

Peace,
Alan
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Amanuensis
Revelation 18:2 (CSB) He cried in a mighty voice: It has fallen, Babylon the Great has fallen! She has become a dwelling for demons, a haunt for every unclean spirit, a haunt for every unclean bird, and a haunt for every unclean and despicable beast.

Seems to be a rather open and shut case.
 

Alan D. Strange

Puritan Board Senior
Seems to be a rather open and shut case.
Jacob,

I am sorry, but I am unclear as to whom or what this post has reference. To something I said? Someone else?

Your citation of Rev. 18:2 is an open and shut case for what? The existence of said entities? Agreed, though what precise manifestation that takes is another matter, given the incorporeal nature of spirits.

I find the way this whole discussion has been carried on to be quite odd and I'm not entirely sure why it has been conducted as it has.

Peace,
Alan
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Amanuensis
Jacob,

I am sorry, but I am unclear as to whom or what this post has reference. To something I said? Someone else?

Your citation of Rev. 18:2 is an open and shut case for what? The existence of said entities? Agreed, though what precise manifestation that takes is another matter, given the incorporeal nature of spirits.

I find the way this whole discussion has been carried on to be quite odd and I'm not entirely sure why it has been conducted as it has.

Peace,
Alan
The OP, if I am not mistaken, was whether haunted dwellings exist. Revelation says they do. My post wasn't directed to you, but to the OP (admittedly from ten pages ago)
 

Dachaser

Puritan Board Doctor
The OP, if I am not mistaken, was whether haunted dwellings exist. Revelation says they do. My post wasn't directed to you, but to the OP (admittedly from ten pages ago)
It also seem to involve determining if Satan and His demons are able to operate with supernatural powers still today or not?
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
Jacob has done well to answer my original OP. Are there haunted places? It appears that there are. Some supposed haunts are fake, yes, but it seems Scripture affirms real haunts.

There are many other related questions as well to this one. I have been pleased with the interaction. I haven't minded that the subject has stayed a bit.

Related questions (that have mostly been covered) involve how Satan operates, what are the extent of his powers, can he work miracles, do the demons operate the same today as in the past, can demons inhabit inanimate objects? These are all good and related questions.

Thanks all.
 
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a mere housewife

Not your cup of tea
(Just sticking my head in the door of this discussion to remark that I'm just not sure that 'Babylon' throughout Revelation is supposed to be interpreted as a literal haunted dwelling place ... not remarking to the OP at all, or any of the discussion. Babylon just seems more complicated than that.)
 

Tom Hart

Puritan Board Senior
(Just sticking my head in the door of this discussion to remark that I'm just not sure that 'Babylon' throughout Revelation is supposed to be interpreted as a literal haunted dwelling place ... not remarking to the OP at all, or any of the discussion. Babylon just seems more complicated than that.)
Right. To draw from Rev. 18:2 that demons are behind hauntings and then to say it is "an open and shut case" is to foist upon the text a foreign meaning. It would seem to necessitate, further, that this "Babylon" is also literally a cage of unclean and hateful birds.
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Amanuensis
It could be a spiritual allegory, I grant. Proving it is another case. And even then it would be something like "Babylon is an allegory of spiritual evil and demons dwell there." That might be true but it really doesn't communicate anything.
 
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Tom Hart

Puritan Board Senior
It could be a spiritual allegory, I grant. Proving it is another case. And even then it would be something like "Babylon is an allegory of spiritual evil and demons dwell there." That might be true but it really doesn't communicate anything.
You might try reading the verse in its context.
 

BayouHuguenot

Puritanboard Amanuensis
I mean to point out that it quite obviously has nothing to do with haunted houses. That's a difficult case to make even taking the verse in isolation.
I didn't say haunted houses. The larger point is that unclean spirits can inhabit dwellings, be they cities or temples or whatever. Reasoning by extension, that could include houses.
 

Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
I mean to point out that it quite obviously has nothing to do with haunted houses. That's a difficult case to make even taking the verse in isolation.
It has to do with whether demons or ghosts have particular dwelling places. And seems to affirm it.
 
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