Ghosts and haunted houses

Discussion in 'General discussions' started by Pergamum, Dec 18, 2018.

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  1. Tom Hart

    Tom Hart Puritan Board Junior

    In Revelation 17 and 18, the woman Babylon is called a "great city." This Babylon is represented as a whore with whom the nations have committed fornication. She is drunk on the blood of the saints.

    Context matters. For all your reading of Greek, you appear to be missing something rather obvious:

    In Revelation, Babylon is not a literal place.
     
  2. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritan Board Doctor

    I don't see the problem. The Woman = Babylon. Let it be represented by x. Is it a person or a place? I lean towards place, since if it were a person difficulties would arise (one person fornicating with all the nations?).
     
  3. Tom Hart

    Tom Hart Puritan Board Junior

    To my knowledge, places don't fornicate either.
     
  4. Tom Hart

    Tom Hart Puritan Board Junior

    The title of this thread is "Ghosts and Haunted Houses."

    In recent posts it has been asserted that Rev. 18:2 refers to a physical place, and that it supports a "haunted house" theology. This is entirely groundless. It forces a completely and plainly foreign idea onto the text.

    Babylon is here a symbol, not a literal place. I think you will find broad consensus on that point from many commentators, past and present.

    What is it a symbol of? Well, that can be another discussion. As far as this discussion goes (as long as we're still talking about "Ghosts and Haunted Houses") it is enough for me to say that Babylon in Revelation is quite irrelevant.
     
  5. Southern Presbyterian

    Southern Presbyterian Moderator Staff Member

    This discussion has ranged far and wide from the OP. Let us take a break, at least for this Lord's Day, and go worship Him in spirit and truth.
     
  6. Pergamum

    Pergamum Ordinary Guy (TM)

    Woohooo......thread is open for business, again! Thanks Mods!
     
  7. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    I just wonder if sometimes there is demonic activity present in lives and in places, but we have just either refused to accept any of that valid for today, or just label it all under fraud, deception, or ghosts.
     
  8. Pergamum

    Pergamum Ordinary Guy (TM)

    That is what I believe often happens.
     
  9. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    I also have wondered if some, maybe not even a majority of the time, but due to abusing alcohol/drugs, if some mental illness and other things actually might be the unsaved experiencing demonic assaults?
     
  10. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritan Board Doctor

    I know "demon" is sort of a catch-all word for anything bad, but it bears asking: the activity could be that of shedim, rephaim, kosmokratoras tous skotous, exousias, archas, or pneumatka tes pornias.

    Given that daimonia usually like to inhabit flesh, it doesn't seem like they would attach themselves to houses.

    On the other hand, something like archons or kosmokratoras could very well be what the CIA accidentally brought over in Project Montauk in 1983.
     
  11. Pergamum

    Pergamum Ordinary Guy (TM)

    Here is a map of all the Marian apparitions:

    https://bigthink.com/strange-maps/world-map-marian-apparitions

    Can they ALL be made up?

    Or is there something real behind these sightings? These places seem to be places of power and spiritual importance. If we assume these sighting are perhaps demonic deceits, then why would the demon return to the same place over and over again? Do they gain some sort of comfort or satisfaction in a job well done? Just like humans, do they feel a sense of comfort in a familiar place?

    It appears that demons make their homes in specific places and in specific people and when cast out wander and look for another host. and during their wanderings they seem to be in greater discomfort than if they find a place to inhabit.

    And some places are more attractive to them to inhabit, especially the religious.

    Matthew 12:
    "43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
    44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
    45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation."

    One practical implication would seem to be that demons prefer well-swept homes and so "clean" religious sinners are more enticing than dirty unkempt sinners as a target for demonic harassment. A Catholic Priest thus makes a better home than a skid-row bum for a demon to inhabit as a host.

    Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  12. Pergamum

    Pergamum Ordinary Guy (TM)

    https://frame-poythress.org/territorial-spirits-some-biblical-perspectives/

    The Bible contains various examples of idolatry with geographical boundaries. Particular peoples and territories often have “patron” gods. The Moabites devote themselves to the worship of Chemosh (1 Kings 11:7). The Ammonites worship Molech and Chemosh (1 Kings 11:7; Judges 11:24). The Philistines of Ashdod worship Dagon (1 Sam 5:2-7). The Sidonians worship Baal (1 Kings 16:31). A plurality of Baal gods seem to be associated with distinct sites: “Each locality had its own Baal or divine lord who frequently took his name from the city or place to which he belonged. Hence there were Baal-meon (`Baal of Meon,’ Nu. 32:38), Baal-hermon (`Baal of Hermon,’ Jgs. 3:3), Baal-hazor (`Baal of Hazor,’ 2 S. 13:23), Baal-peor (`Baal of Peor,’ Nu. 25:3).”8 One may find many other extrabiblical examples of localized gods from the nations around Israel. People commonly thought that gods attached themselves to particular regions. For example, the Arameans reasoned that Yahweh was “a god of the hills.” The Israelites could be defeated by doing battle in the plains (1 Kings 20:23-25). The immigrants brought into Palestine after the exile of the northern kingdom made inquiry about the gods attached to their new land (2 Kings 17:26-28). But the people also continued to devote themselves to the gods of their own social group: “each national group made its own gods in the several towns where they settled …” (2 Kings 17:29). We thus see an combination of geographical and cultural factors. The people reckon geographically with “the god of the land” (verse 27) and culturally with the god of the cultural group, “each national group,” גּוֹי גּוֹי (Hebrew, goy goy).
     
  13. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritan Board Doctor

    Most (or all) of those apparitions are fallen archons trying to deceive.
     
  14. TheInquirer

    TheInquirer Puritan Board Freshman

    I have a close relative who has been under the deception of some of the Marian apparitions for decades and I can attest that, whether real sightings happened or it is human deceit, the messages attached to them are antichrist to the core and spiritually enslaving.

    1 Timothy 4:1–2 — Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared
     
  15. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    What are Archons?
     
  16. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    Yes, as the so called Fatima visions were deception by Satan to gullible minds.
     
  17. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritan Board Doctor

    This is an oversimplification, but they are cosmic spirits that have some form of rank and hierarchy. Ephesians 6:20ff mentions them along with archai.
     
  18. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    So they would not be either angels or demons?
     
  19. Pergamum

    Pergamum Ordinary Guy (TM)

    Literally an archon is a ruler or chief. Regarding demons it means a lead demon. A demonic chief. Jacob is pointing out that there is a hierarchy of demons. Some are higher or lower and some are tasked with different duties.
     
  20. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    Liked the one that blocked the angel from getting to Daniel, and had to have Michael show up to move it forward?
     
  21. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritan Board Doctor

    Correct. An angel is a messenger. That's all. A demon is a disembodied spirit actively seeking a body to inhabit. (I think demons are spirits of the slain Nephilim, but that's another story). Archons do not seek bodies.
     
  22. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritan Board Doctor

    Kind of. There is a Hebrew word that describes those territorial spirits. They are probably Shedim, fallen rulers of the nations (Deut. 32:17-18). They are the beney ha-elohim to whom God allotted the nations after Babel (Deut. 4).
     
  23. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    Does any of these still apply though after the New Covenant era started?
     
  24. BayouHuguenot

    BayouHuguenot Puritan Board Doctor

    Like, are they still ruling over the nations. They've been dealt a decisive blow. And the preaching of the gospel can overtake their kingdoms. That being said, they aren't merely twiddling their thumbs. If someone thinks otherwise, go visit Iran or even worse, Saudi Arabia and tell me that the Prince of Persia (aka, the Moon God) isn't in control.
     
  25. Pergamum

    Pergamum Ordinary Guy (TM)

    Yes. A Kingdom that is being destroyed is still a kingdom. The SS took a beating the first months of 1945 during the end of WWII, but their ranks and units still were significant for the most part (at least until they were totally obliterated).

    We are still mopping up and have territories to conquer.
     
  26. Reformed Bookworm

    Reformed Bookworm Puritan Board Sophomore

    The Cross was like a spiritual E.M.P. bomb that gravely crippled the enemy forces. The elect are the foot soldiers that are storming their bunkers and strongholds picking them off one by one.
    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019
  27. ZackF

    ZackF Puritan Board Graduate

  28. Southern Presbyterian

    Southern Presbyterian Moderator Staff Member

    *Moderation*

    Shutting this one down for good now. in my opinion, this has ranged way too far and way too wide, well outside the bounds of Scripture - Deut. 29:29.

    *End Moderation*
     
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