Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'General discussions' started by Pergamum, Dec 18, 2018.
Not really. It's the same metaphysics involved. If I can't see the cause and effect, it don't real.
"The devil is most active in the world by pretending he doesn't exist," might hold some validity in the Atheistic West, but not in many other parts of the globe.
Indeed, we can even say such a view is cultural imperialism by taking the unique experience of the secular West and imposing it on the rest of humanity and human history.
You know what I mean.
I just want to say, again, that everyone who has commented here believes firmly that the devil is active. Some of us want to get our doctrine about that activity, and what the duty of the Church is in relation to it, from Scripture and not from philosophy, conjecture, reports, or even experience.
Indeed, and one should not take the miraculous deeds of Jesus and The Apostles and make that normative practice today.
The scriptures state that satan ans his fallen angels
The scriptures indicate to us that Satan and His demonic forces are real and are powerful though, correct?
Satan blinds the eyes of those not saved, and he also is the one behind all false religions and theologies, and while you are indeed true that the Gospel light and power of Christ can deliver from his darkness, does he not still retain supernatural abilities and powers also though even now?
Are those said to be the result of the sons of God and mortal women in Genesis?
I really wonder if Satan "plays around" with the unsaved and saved, and updates to fit our present culture and thinking processes. as once they were seen as fairies and incubus and the like, and now in the Space Age have appeared to us as space brothers and aliens from space coming to deliver and save us now.
Can unsaved persons become demon possessed today, and if so, would they not need to be delivered by the power of the Holy Spirit?
Indeed not the norm for today, but does not mean that automatically nothing like that can ever happen!
Not necessarily. I was oppressed by dark forces and I called on Jesus' name for deliverance. He answered.
The crux of the matter is what does "beney ha-elohim" mean? I don't call them angels because angel is a functional term, not an ontological one.
People object, "Angels don't have penises." That has nothing to do with the issue. First of all, I don't believe all spirit beings are lumped under the label "angel." The OT doesn't do that. A rephaim is a spirit-being, but it is certainly not an angel! A shedim is a spirit-being, but not an angel.
But whatever. Do angels have mouths? Most people say no, but the Bible describes angels as "eating."
I look at it as demons possessing the wicked line of Cain, and the byproducts of that sexual union between daughters of men and them were the Giants and others of renown of OT times.
Could be. I don't see the text saying anything about the line of Cain.
So our church library had a copy and I browsed it. On p. 155 he said that while most magic is nonsense (and I agree), it does open a door to demonic activity. That seems to be what I am saying.
The vast majority of Magic/Tarot cards/séances etc. are indeed a sham, fakery of the highest order, but there would still be those rare times when real supernatural activities are happening, and Christians should avoid those at all costs.
Yeah, like Ouija boards. There is just so much documentary evidence. And it is a literal channeling session.
Documentary evidence of what?
Since "Demon-possession" somewhat begs the question in terms of what's happening, we will call it "multiple personalities."
That's no surprise and no one has denied that this can be true. The problems lie with popular views on exorcism, identifying demonic types, etc. Leahy's view is that demons are active (of course), but the particulars of what is going on spiritually in any given apparently demonic situation are unknown to us- that is for God to know. In a situation where one would typically think that a person is demon possessed, or some other demonic activity is afoot, we aren't to perform exorcisms or try to cast out demons, ghosts and such. The solution for every such problem is the same: earnest prayer and God's word. He quotes Luther: "We cannot expel demons with certain ceremonies and words, as Jesus Christ , the prophets, and the apostles did. All we can do is in the name of Jesus to pray the Lord God, of his infinite mercy, to deliver the possessed persons. And if our prayer is offered up in full faith, we are assured by Christ himself (John 16:23) that it will be efficacious and overcome all the devil's resistance. I might mention many instances of this. But we cannot of ourselves expel the evil spirits, nor must we even attempt it."
There is documentary evidence of ouija boards leading to mulptiple personality disorder/demonic activity?
Can you provide a link to some of this evidence?
Why? It's just going to get dismissed a priori (see any one of Earl's posts). Before we can talk about evidence we have to talk about worldview implications of evidence. I have provided l inks on other threads concerning verifying the supernatural. I'll see where i put them.
Yes and no. The only thing I would say to that is God has revealed a lot about the unseen world. Our problem is that we limit it to two different entities (angeloi and daimonoia) and ignore everything else he has said (archons, thronoi, etc).
That's a morally binding statement for which you don't have any evidence.
Strictly speaking, it would also include fasting.
Best not to claim evidence and then fail to provide it, though.
I'm interested specifically in that ouija board claim.
What did God say about archons and thronoi that causes a problem if we ignore it? And where does he say it, if you don't mind some Scripture references? (Would really like to know.)
There is evidence, the Biblical data I spoke of earlier, with which you never really interact (that I've seen). You take the narratives of Scripture and make the deeds done by Christ and his apostles to be normative for those who aren't Christ, prophets, or his apostles. You have a different view, I guess, where no miracle performed by Christ or his apostles is out of the reach of ordinary laypeople of today to perform. Where does it say in the NT that raising people from the dead can't be done by me or you? And so on.
Ephesians 2:2. All over Ephesians. archonta tes exousias tou aeros
God isn't going to punish us if we ignore it. We just impoverish our theology.
Correct. I presuppose continuity, not discontinuity.
Could you remind me of those verses?
I am also not going to do other people's homework, either. When I get time, I will get to it. I'm not eager, though, since it will just be dismissed.
I might go there when I am spiritually ready. I just went to some of the sites that expose them and even then I felt spiritually dirty. This isn't like looking for the Ark of the Covenant. This type of material is readily available.