Ghosts, spirits, demons.

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Puritan Board Sophomore
Originally Posted by Tirian
Originally Posted by armourbearer
at other times the thing done is but some illusion of the senses by the devil,
So, paranormally effecting someone's senses?
What is sensory is normal. If it is a false perception it is an illusion. If it were paranormal it would not be an illusion but real.
A "thing done" then, is some falsely perceived wonder that is an illusion, generated in the mind of the perceiver by a being? If so, how? If not, what are we actually talking about if the illusion wasn't specifically generated contemporaneously with its perception? What is the "thing done" other than nothing?


Puritanboard Amanuensis
A "thing done" then, is some falsely perceived wonder that is an illusion, generated in the mind of the perceiver by a being? If so, how?
Unbelief. Ignorance. Superstition. Pride. Lust. The god of this world blinds the minds of unbelievers, and this world in the here and now is the very thing that is used to blind them. Satan using Simon is directly connected with savouring of the things of men. There are social relations and customs. Some are said to be unable to believe while they receive honour one from another. There are authority structures. A vain conversation is received by tradition from one's fathers. In a word, Worldview.


Puritan Board Professor
I write this to clear up misconceptions that arose from this thread that have arisen. When scripture was written there were no words to describe epilepsy, or mental illness which are sometimes real physical conditions or a spiritual moral deficiency in a person. Our Lord healed these people either by directly curing the physical cause by divine fiat or giving them spiritual council which would cure them.

Take this case as an example.....

"14 And when they were come to the multitude, there came to him a certain man, kneeling down to him, and saying,15 Lord, have mercy on my son: for he is lunatick, and sore vexed: for ofttimes he falleth into the fire, and oft into the water.16 And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him.17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting."

This boy was not possessed by any devil but suffered from in my opinion epilepsy which back then people had no medical term to describe his symptoms so they would say he had a demon. Yes they thought a devil was controlling his falling but other than this poor boy being physically sick from the result of the fall he was not possessed as many think happened then or today. Think about this for just a moment. If you brought your child to a Dr. and the Dr. said "He is possessed and needs an exorcist" I hope you would run to another Dr. to get him on some medication to help your child.

I write the above as a medical professional and in my 31 years of being around very sick people I have NEVER run across a "demon possessed" patient. Yes I have come across many people who appear to be "possessed" but what I have found is that if I love them the appearance of possession disappears almost all the time. The times the appearance of possession does not disappear is usually with patients with severe Alzheimer's or sever mental illness which may be handled by a combination of medicine and spiritual council.


Staff member
I repeat an early admonition to seek to understand one another. Ask questions, show patience in seeking to show the defect in the others view. For now this thread will get a rest and one of the moderators can reopen it later if there is interest in continuing it.
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