God-centered Gospel vs. "Personal" Gospel

[InSlaveryToChrist]

God is the center of all things. Everything is from Him and to Him. For us, this means that likeness to God should be our highest and endless goal of existence. But this goal is not only our duty, but, through proper thinking and understanding, it is also our happiness, and thus our motivation for fulfilling the duty.

When we think about evangelism in general, one factor is always emphasized to motivate the sinner to run from hell to Christ, namely, the personality of the Gospel, that is, that the Gospel is for "me". We should be very careful to note that the Bible does NOT use this kind of language. It is very similar to it, but there is a difference. Sinners who receive the Gospel in the texts of the Bible, never emphasize the personality, but rather the sinfulness of themselves. Without proper use of hermeneutics, passages like the following can easily be misunderstood:

"We love him, because he first loved us." (1 John 4:19)

We love God because He first loved "us". Who is the "us"? SINNERS. We love God (or, at least, should love), because He loved sinners like us. Do you see the emphasis here and the obvious conclusion? We should love God for being merciful to sinners in general. There is nothing whatsoever in us -- other than our sinfulness -- that should work as a catalyst to motivate us to serve God in hearing the Gospel, and thus it is simple selfishness of us to receive the Gospel on those terms.

How does this affect our evangelism? We do not stress the fact that salvation is for the sinner personally, but that the salvation is for such a sinner like him/her. It is mandatory to make the sinner understand God is to be our highest motivation for absolutely anything, and nothing in us. If you love the fact that God loved you, there should be just as much reason to love God because He loved sinners like you, and ultimately, because He IS merciful in His nature.


I hope everyone reads the above patiently. Feel free to comment and give me your thoughts on this.

 

[GloriousBoaz]

I have been struggling with this a bit because since becoming a Calvinist I am very different in my thinking about how God loves and though it is personal that is far from the main thing. My evangelism as you say has changed drastically, but it is hard because I hear, in my old circles, that verse you quoted used all the time to say "God loves me" and yeah its true but i get beat up and ganged up on and pushed into a corner a lot for "quibbling" or "knit picking" when I try to tell them the context here isn't so personal (and this is coming for a group that is fairly good with trying to keep things in context) and also the context of the scriptures has more to do with God in His sovereignty than it does His love for us, His love for us is pointing to His greatness not to how he wanted to make creatures that can be super happy for all eternity, though I agree with the old catechisms that the chief end of man is to worship God and enjoy Him for all eternity.

 

[InSlaveryToChrist]

I have been struggling with this a bit because since becoming a Calvinist I am very different in my thinking about how God loves and though it is personal that is far from the main thing. My evangelism as you say has changed drastically, but it is hard because I hear, in my old circles, that verse you quoted used all the time to say "God loves me" and yeah its true but i get beat up and ganged up on and pushed into a corner a lot for "quibbling" or "knit picking" when I try to tell them the context here isn't so personal (and this is coming for a group that is fairly good with trying to keep things in context) and also the context of the scriptures has more to do with God in His sovereignty than it does His love for us, His love for us is pointing to His greatness not to how he wanted to make creatures that can be super happy for all eternity, though I agree with the old catechisms that the chief end of man is to worship God and enjoy Him for all eternity.

My worry for the Reformed folks is that many still tend to be man-centered in that they emphasize the personality of our salvation, when we should look beyond that. Indeed, this whole personality thing is a mere reflection of our selfishness. Do we really think the righteous, pre-fall Adam was concerned about his personal matters? Of course not! God was everything to him, and anything material provided for him by God was simply pointing him back to God. It was only after Adam fell that he became concerned about his own life above anything else.

 

[Zach]

Samuel, I would recommend reading Michael Reeves' short book Delighting in the Trinity. It is very good and talks about how God's triunity drives him outward in love for His Son and ultimately for sinners such as ourselves. This makes us both thankful personally and helps us to love for the Lord for the salvation he has given to us individually and it helps us to love our neighbors.

 

[InSlaveryToChrist]

Samuel, I would recommend reading Michael Reeves' short book Delighting in the Trinity. It is very good and talks about how God's triunity drives him outward in love for His Son and ultimately for sinners such as ourselves. This makes us both thankful personally and helps us to love for the Lord for the salvation he has given to us individually and it helps us to love our neighbors.

I'm sorry Zach, but you are missing the point here. This is why I begged you to read my OP carefully.

As to what you said, I agree with everything said, EXCEPT the word "ultimately", which should be placed before "His Son". We, creatures, are NOT God's ultimate concern, we are secondary to God the Son. If you meant the term in some other sense, equivalent to "lastly", then I agree with that.

You need to read my OP again, this time with more patience. I am not saying our personal salvation should not matter to ourselves whatsoever, but that it should not matter to us any more than others' salvation, and, ultimately, God's merciful nature, which is the spring and foundation of our salvation.

 

[Jack K]

Samuel, I would recommend reading Michael Reeves' short book Delighting in the Trinity. It is very good and talks about how God's triunity drives him outward in love for His Son and ultimately for sinners such as ourselves. This makes us both thankful personally and helps us to love for the Lord for the salvation he has given to us individually and it helps us to love our neighbors.

I'm sorry Zach, but you are missing the point here. This is why I begged you to read my OP carefully.

As to what you said, I agree with everything said, EXCEPT the word "ultimately", which should be placed before "His Son". We, creatures, are NOT God's ultimate concern, we are secondary to God the Son. If you meant the term in some other sense, equivalent to "lastly", then I agree with that.

You need to read my OP again, this time with more patience. I am not saying our personal salvation should not matter to ourselves whatsoever, but that it should not matter to us any more than others' salvation, and, ultimately, God's merciful nature, which is the spring and foundation of our salvation.

Samuel:

If you give it a chance, I think you'll find that Mike Reeves' book is indeed related to the topic you've brought up and that it might help you see how God's delight in himself is connected to personal salvation. You have some good thoughts on a deep topic about which there is much more to ponder. Reeves does a good job of bringing to life the insights of great thinkers like John Owen, who was miles ahead of any of us when it comes to considering these matters.

By the way, "ultimately" doesn't always mean "chiefly." It more properly means "lastly," as in something that happens late in time.

 

[Zach]

As Jack said, I meant ultimately in the sense of it being lastly. Of course God the Father ultimately (chiefly) delights in giving life to his Son, but he also delights in giving life to us because he is by his very nature life giving and we should delight in that glorious truth. God delights in giving himself to me! God delights in giving himself to you! That is good news and it is worth rejoicing over!

 

[InSlaveryToChrist]

As Jack said, I meant ultimately in the sense of it being lastly. Of course God the Father ultimately (chiefly) delights in giving life to his Son, but he also delights in giving life to us because he is by his very nature life giving and we should delight in that glorious truth. God delights in giving himself to me! God delights in giving himself to you! That is good news and it is worth rejoicing over!

Yes, this all I agree with 100%. Of course I rejoice over God delighting in giving Himself to me, but I equally rejoice for God giving Himself to anyone else, and I ultimately rejoice in the fact that He IS merciful in His nature. Doesn't that make sense?

 

[Zach]

As Jack said, I meant ultimately in the sense of it being lastly. Of course God the Father ultimately (chiefly) delights in giving life to his Son, but he also delights in giving life to us because he is by his very nature life giving and we should delight in that glorious truth. God delights in giving himself to me! God delights in giving himself to you! That is good news and it is worth rejoicing over!

Yes, this all I agree with 100%. Of course I rejoice over God delighting in giving Himself to me, but I equally rejoice for God giving Himself to anyone else, and I ultimately rejoice in the fact that He IS merciful in His nature. Doesn't that make sense?

That does make sense and I agree with what you've written. Ultimately, we should praise God for his goodness, but we know and experience his goodness in his being good to us individually. God invites us as individuals to taste and see that he is good. Ultimately, if I am not tasting and seeing personally that he is good, how can I proclaim, "God is good! God is merciful!" Does that make sense?

 

[InSlaveryToChrist]

As Jack said, I meant ultimately in the sense of it being lastly. Of course God the Father ultimately (chiefly) delights in giving life to his Son, but he also delights in giving life to us because he is by his very nature life giving and we should delight in that glorious truth. God delights in giving himself to me! God delights in giving himself to you! That is good news and it is worth rejoicing over!

Yes, this all I agree with 100%. Of course I rejoice over God delighting in giving Himself to me, but I equally rejoice for God giving Himself to anyone else, and I ultimately rejoice in the fact that He IS merciful in His nature. Doesn't that make sense?

That does make sense and I agree with what you've written. Ultimately, we should praise God for his goodness, but we know and experience his goodness in his being good to us individually. God invites us as individuals to taste and see that he is good. Ultimately, if I am not tasting and seeing personally that he is good, how can I proclaim, "God is good! God is merciful!" Does that make sense?

Yes, it does. Thank you for making me see that. I'd love to read that book by Mike Reeves. Is it free or do I have to purchase one?

 

[InSlaveryToChrist]

Let me wrap up what has been said here.

While we should not make our own salvation more important than the salvation of others, we cannot appreciate anyone else's salvation any more than our own salvation, because only by the experience of our own salvation can we see God's glory in all of His works of salvation.

 

[Zach]

As Jack said, I meant ultimately in the sense of it being lastly. Of course God the Father ultimately (chiefly) delights in giving life to his Son, but he also delights in giving life to us because he is by his very nature life giving and we should delight in that glorious truth. God delights in giving himself to me! God delights in giving himself to you! That is good news and it is worth rejoicing over!

Yes, this all I agree with 100%. Of course I rejoice over God delighting in giving Himself to me, but I equally rejoice for God giving Himself to anyone else, and I ultimately rejoice in the fact that He IS merciful in His nature. Doesn't that make sense?

That does make sense and I agree with what you've written. Ultimately, we should praise God for his goodness, but we know and experience his goodness in his being good to us individually. God invites us as individuals to taste and see that he is good. Ultimately, if I am not tasting and seeing personally that he is good, how can I proclaim, "God is good! God is merciful!" Does that make sense?

Yes, it does. Thank you for making me see that. I'd love to read that book by Mike Reeves. Is it free or do I have to purchase one?

It's not free (it was published in 2012) but it isn't very expensive. It's $11.49 from Amazon.

 

[jandrusk]

I think a good point of reference for this is Saul's conversion to Paul. Jesus does not ask my you are persecuting my individual believers or even the universal church for that matter, but "why are you persecuting me?". The gospel is personal only if salvation becomes effectual for that person. And that only happens if they are graced with saving faith as a result of hearing the gospel presentation. I like to stress the point that the gospel is about God's saving work for us. I fear that this type of representation shifts the focus of the gospel to American individualism versus covenantal responsibility.

 

[Supersillymanable]

Interesting you bring up this topic Samuel! It's something I've been giving a lot of thought to recently! I second the recommendation of Michael Reeves book. Also check out his book "The Good God", I found that quite helpful pertaining to God's love towards us.

Some other things that have really helped me recently is Piper's book "God is the Gospel" ( God Is the Gospel by John Piper Meditations on God's Love as the Gift of Himself - Desiring God ) which is free as a PDF. As I can tell, he is equally cautious of us focussing the Gospel and the delight in it ultimately (chiefly), in anything other than God (though there are other delights, they flow from God. I'm probably not explaining it well, have a read). Along with that this sermon: Did Christ die for us, or for God?

Did Christ Die for Us or for God? Passion Austin, TX - Desiring God

Which I found really helpful. An excellent exposition of Romans 3: 25 - 26.

His series "The pleasures of God" I think also relates somewhat.