God Gave Wine: What The Bible Says About Alcohol - by Kennet

[Larry Hughes]

I think Piper's view misses the point of true holiness - via Christ alone. Which is surprising for him. I think he just disconnects at this point unfortunately.

Because, if I can eat or drink with the faith and peace of Christ having done what I couldn't do - that is put faith highest - that is Christ, then such resting in Christ is exhibited in my not attempting to vainly "please" God some other way, not eating or not drinking. Whether you eat or drink do all to the Glory of God. What greater reflection of His fame than to act in a way that reflects the peace that Christ gives me by His cross - glorying in the cross by such actions. How much higher can one live and act but do all things that show forth one's utter trust in Christ Who died and gave Himself for me.

Too many in the pietistic realm think Christianity is about walking around like a grim reaper all the time.

Conversely, if I'm a pagan viewing a Christian not drinking, what am I viewing and what is he/she bearing witness to that I could not view and have born witness to me that I could not see in a Mormon, JW, Muslim, Buddhist or a thousand other cults and false religions?

What's the significant difference in a testimony that says something like, "Before I found Kristna, Buddha, the teachings of Mohammed, Scientology, Kabbala I was a lousy man. But Kristna, Buddha, the teachings of Mohammed, Scientology, Kabbala took all that away from me and now I'm a swell guy." What is the difference between that and, "Before I found Jesus I was a lousy guy but now I'm as moral as a Mormon on smiling pills."? Nothing significant. Hence again justification by faith alone IS what the church stands and falls on.

Beer and wine drinking might hurt your witness if your an Elder in the mormon church out in the "mission field", but not as a Christian. And of course we are not meaning drunkeness here, some times one just has to spell it out or people get itchy about it.

Ldh

[Edited on 7-30-2005 by Larry Hughes]

 

[VirginiaHuguenot]

Originally posted by Larry Hughes
Conversely, if I'm a pagan viewing a Christian not drinking, what am I viewing and what is he/she bearing witness to that I could not view and have born witness to me that I could not see in a Mormon, JW, Muslim, Buddhist or a thousand other cults and false religions?

Ldh

Excellent point!

...Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. Col. 2.23

 

[Larry Hughes]

Andrew,

Of course one could look at it this way:

You´re a pagan who just walked into Applebees. Seated are four men all not "œhurting their witness"œ; there´s a Christian drinking milk, a Mormon drinking milk, a JW drinking milk and a Muslim drinking milk. You look and see this. Which one´s the Christian? After all he´s trying not to hurt his witness so isn´t obvious! I´m being factitious of course.

Of course you could walk in and see four guys drinking beer. Three are getting tipsy and the forth one is either the designated driver or a reformed Christian. Again, being factitious of course.

L