Good article from Christian News, "Why Statement on ‘Social Justice’ Is Stirring Debate..."

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Pergamum

Ordinary Guy (TM)
Hello,

I believe this article by journalist Heather Clark does a good job covering the recent controversy over the statement on the Social Gospel.

https://christiannews.net/2018/09/2...ate-over-role-of-the-church-in-social-issues/

I think many folks are calling on Christians to take sides on this statement and to be either for or against this statement. But I think there are many out there like me, who agree mostly with the statement but wish it were better worded (less reactionary, and more encouraging of the Church's involvement in society).

This statement, while good, should not be used as a litmus test of orthodoxy.

It is a reaction. Being hesitant or refusing to sign it, does not mean we are SJWs. Being "almost right" or "good enough" is not enough for me to sign the statement.

I despise SJWs and their white guilt and pushing of homosexuality within the church, etc, but I simply do not think the statement by Ascol, et al, did a good job of addressing these problems.

I disagree with this statement by Justin Peters as quoted in the beginning of the article:

“It is not the Church’s mission to engage society or try to busy itself with fixing injustices of any type in society,” Justin Peters of Justin Peters Ministries and Kootenai Community Church in Idaho, one of the drafters of “The Statement on Social Justice and the Gospel,” told Christian News Network. “That’s what we’re concerned about.”


The article quoted me in the following:

"Johnson said that he largely likes the statement, and is grieved that a conflict exists over the matter, but would just “like to see a better statement written which both condemns the Marxist categories of ‘social justice’ even while vigorously encouraging Christians to do more in all realms of life.”

“We need greater involvement in the world, not less,” he said. “There is no ‘Benedict Option’ for Christians. We must remain engaged—now more than ever. I am afraid Christians will get concerned about wrong conceptions of justice and shrink back from this realm, when the answer is not less social action, but more action, and of a better type.”


I sent Heather Clark an article that I thought best summarized my position, and I am so glad that she ended the article by quoting R.C. Sproul in-depth.

RC Sproul's position here is a good summary of my own conclusions on this matter:

https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/do-we-believe-whole-gospel/

From the Clark article, quoting Sproul:

"Sproul stated that while the apostate churches who were only focused on “social justice” were indeed a concern, the Church’s reaction was also faulty in that many consequently withdrew from ministries of compassion so as not to be involved in social activism and thereby appear liberal.

“Many evangelicals at this period in history, in order to preserve the central significance of the proclamation of the gospel of Jesus Christ, gave renewed emphasis to evangelism,” he explained. “In many cases, this emphasis upon evangelism was done to the exclusion of the other pole of biblical concern, namely, mercy ministry to those who were poor, afflicted, and suffering.”

“So glaring was the dichotomy between liberal and evangelical concerns that, sadly, many evangelicals began to distance themselves from any involvement in mercy ministries, lest their activities be construed as a surrender to liberalism,” Sproul lamented. “The fallacy of the false dilemma takes two important truths and forces one to choose between them.”

He emphasized that the Church should not be urged to choose between the two.

“The problem with this fallacy, as with all fallacies, is that truth becomes severely distorted,” Sproul said. “The New Testament does not allow for this false dilemma. The choice that the Church has is never between personal salvation and mercy ministry. It is rather a both/and proposition. Neither pole can be properly swallowed by the other. To reduce Christianity either to a program of social welfare or to a program of personal redemption results in a truncated gospel that is a profound distortion.”

To repeat Sproul's words:

"The New Testament does not allow for this false dilemma. The choice that the Church has is never between personal salvation and mercy ministry. It is rather a both/and proposition. Neither pole can be properly swallowed by the other. To reduce Christianity either to a program of social welfare or to a program of personal redemption results in a truncated gospel that is a profound distortion.”

I repeat again: This statement, while good, should not be used as a litmus test of orthodoxy.
 
I find it odd that the Puritans believed that the Church was to transform all of society, and yet several PBers are clamoring to sign a statement whose framers say things like, "“It is not the Church’s mission to engage society or try to busy itself with fixing injustices of any type in society.”

That is a severe departure from the Puritan tradition.

Our job as Christians is not only to "engage" society" but to transform society.

Have we forgotten Abraham Kuper's quotation, “There is not one square inch of this universe that God does not say, “mine!”

John Knox proclaimed: "Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God." and yet many of you are pushing to sign a statement written by folks who claim, "“It is not the Church’s mission to engage society or try to busy itself with fixing injustices of any type in society.”
 
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“It is not the Church’s mission to engage society or try to busy itself with fixing injustices of any type in society,” Justin Peters of Justin Peters Ministries and Kootenai Community Church in Idaho, one of the drafters of “The Statement on Social Justice and the Gospel,” told Christian News Network. “That’s what we’re concerned about.”
That's a problematic statement. They need to be more direct in snuffing out social justice political agenda which has less to do with the gospel and more with empowering a federal government hostile to Christianity in implementing socialism and contrived, repressive, (and/or)exaggerated "hate laws" that help extinguish "white" Bible believing Christians without just cause...and leave it there.
We are the scapegoats relegated to fringes if we don't forsake the whole, life giving counsel of God (which should include acts/works of mercy)
 
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Mr. Johnson, thank you for your faithful service. I agree with Sproul.
Hello,

I believe this article by journalist Heather Clark does a good job covering the recent controversy over the statement on the Social Gospel.

https://christiannews.net/2018/09/2...ate-over-role-of-the-church-in-social-issues/

I think many folks are calling on Christians to take sides on this statement and to be either for or against this statement. But I think there are many out there like me, who agree mostly with the statement but wish it were better worded (less reactionary, and more encouraging of the Church's involvement in society).

This statement, while good, should not be used as a litmus test of orthodoxy.

It is a reaction. Being hesitant or refusing to sign it, does not mean we are SJWs. Being "almost right" or "good enough" is not enough for me to sign the statement.

I despise SJWs and their white guilt and pushing of homosexuality within the church, etc, but I simply do not think the statement by Ascol, et al, did a good job of addressing these problems.

I disagree with this statement by Justin Peters as quoted in the beginning of the article:

“It is not the Church’s mission to engage society or try to busy itself with fixing injustices of any type in society,” Justin Peters of Justin Peters Ministries and Kootenai Community Church in Idaho, one of the drafters of “The Statement on Social Justice and the Gospel,” told Christian News Network. “That’s what we’re concerned about.”


The article quoted me in the following:

"Johnson said that he largely likes the statement, and is grieved that a conflict exists over the matter, but would just “like to see a better statement written which both condemns the Marxist categories of ‘social justice’ even while vigorously encouraging Christians to do more in all realms of life.”

“We need greater involvement in the world, not less,” he said. “There is no ‘Benedict Option’ for Christians. We must remain engaged—now more than ever. I am afraid Christians will get concerned about wrong conceptions of justice and shrink back from this realm, when the answer is not less social action, but more action, and of a better type.”


I sent Heather Clark an article that I thought best summarized my position, and I am so glad that she ended the article by quoting R.C. Sproul in-depth.

RC Sproul's position here is a good summary of my own conclusions on this matter:

https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/do-we-believe-whole-gospel/

From the Clark article, quoting Sproul:

"Sproul stated that while the apostate churches who were only focused on “social justice” were indeed a concern, the Church’s reaction was also faulty in that many consequently withdrew from ministries of compassion so as not to be involved in social activism and thereby appear liberal.

“Many evangelicals at this period in history, in order to preserve the central significance of the proclamation of the gospel of Jesus Christ, gave renewed emphasis to evangelism,” he explained. “In many cases, this emphasis upon evangelism was done to the exclusion of the other pole of biblical concern, namely, mercy ministry to those who were poor, afflicted, and suffering.”

“So glaring was the dichotomy between liberal and evangelical concerns that, sadly, many evangelicals began to distance themselves from any involvement in mercy ministries, lest their activities be construed as a surrender to liberalism,” Sproul lamented. “The fallacy of the false dilemma takes two important truths and forces one to choose between them.”

He emphasized that the Church should not be urged to choose between the two.

“The problem with this fallacy, as with all fallacies, is that truth becomes severely distorted,” Sproul said. “The New Testament does not allow for this false dilemma. The choice that the Church has is never between personal salvation and mercy ministry. It is rather a both/and proposition. Neither pole can be properly swallowed by the other. To reduce Christianity either to a program of social welfare or to a program of personal redemption results in a truncated gospel that is a profound distortion.”

To repeat Sproul's words:

"The New Testament does not allow for this false dilemma. The choice that the Church has is never between personal salvation and mercy ministry. It is rather a both/and proposition. Neither pole can be properly swallowed by the other. To reduce Christianity either to a program of social welfare or to a program of personal redemption results in a truncated gospel that is a profound distortion.”

I repeat again: This statement, while good, should not be used as a litmus test of orthodoxy.
 
I find it odd that the Puritans believed that the Church was to transform all of society, and yet several PBers are clamoring to sign a statement whose framers say things like, "“It is not the Church’s mission to engage society or try to busy itself with fixing injustices of any type in society.”

That is a severe departure from the Puritan tradition.

Our job as Christians is not only to "engage" society" but to transform society.

Have we forgotten Abraham Kuper's quotation, “There is not one square inch of this universe that God does not say, “mine!”

John Knox proclaimed: "Resistance to tyranny is obedience to God." and yet many of you are pushing to sign a statement written by folks who claim, "“It is not the Church’s mission to engage society or try to busy itself with fixing injustices of any type in society.”

Do you recognize that the word "church" can have at least two meanings? One being it entails who the officers are and their duties, and the other what each individual member duty is. As a member of the church (which includes the officers) we all have a duty to help the society in which we reside in, and this is done outside our congregational walls. Now inside the walls our officers have duties that do not entail the transformation of the world outside of their congregation.
 
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Our job as Christians is not only to "engage" society" but to transform society.
Perg,

In re-reading your above quote, would you say that you are a "Transformationist" or a "Reconstructionist"??

Also, in light of your supposed agreement with Sproul, are you aware that Ligonier (Specifically the President and R.C.'S wife ) have endorsed (signed) the statement?

P.S. I hope you spleen is smaller BTW (Any updates on your health?).
 
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Perg,

In re-reading your above quote, would you say that you are a "Transformationist" or a "Reconstructionist"??

Also, in light of your supposed agreement with Sproul, are you aware that Ligonier (Specifically the President and R.C.'S wife ) have endorsed (signed) the statement?

P.S. I hope you spleen is smaller BTW (Any updates on your health?).

I am not sure what you mean by those terms, but I think there is a way to believe that we are to transform society without being a Theonomist, if that is what you are asking. But God's law should impact society and we should try to make it so as much as possible. What area of everyday life shouldn't our faith influence, after all? What aspect of society is the Bible not relevant to speak to?

You could respond by saying, "Yes, and THE way we transform society is through the preaching of the Gospel." And that is true. But there is Word and there is Deed. We are to transform society through both Word and Deed.

As it was pointed out above there are two different ways in which we can define the word Church. There is the Church as an institution, and there is the Church as the People of God. But I would say under both definitions of the Church, we've been given social obligations to go good to all men, especially the household of faith and widow ministries and help to the poor was an institutionalized part of the Church from the very beginning.

I am not sure why Ligonier signed the statement. RC Sproul's article I linked above is the best answer I have seen to the propensity of US churches to dichotomize things that should not be dichotomized. I believe the Ligonier article is a beautiful summation of my own belief.

If this present controversy was caused by mainly 3 things (1) a letter from or about Beth Moore (?), (2) The Revoice Conference and other efforts to paint homosexuality as anything but an abomination, and (3) The Black Lives Matters issue and the views of many black churches of late, then it would have been MUCH better to have directly addressed each of those things one by one. Instead, a general statement that over-reached was written and some people even here on the PB called for signatures as proof of our orthodoxy as if this statement were the newest litmus test of the faith. But if the statement is a good answer to those 3 reasons stated above, it is still a very "America in 2018" response and will not stand as a timeless standard of the church or even a statement that makes much sense for cultures outside and not really influenced by American politics or news.

Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. We want to purge the Church of Cultural Marxism (which is what "social justice" really is), but we don't want to persuade the Church to be unconcerned with justice. We as Christians should not tolerate injustice if we can change it.
 
But God's law should impact society and we should try to make it so as much as possible. What area of everyday life shouldn't our faith influence, after all? What aspect of society is the Bible not relevant to speak to?

The very definition of theonomist, In my humble opinion. :) All Christians should think thusly. :2cents:
 
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