Guess this Church/Denomination!

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Marrow Man

Marrow Man

Drunk with Powder
On my blog, I posted a quiz to see if anyone could guess the specific church/denomination with the following statement of faith/confession. The answer might slightly surprise you (or, then again, maybe not). I've eliminated a couple of the statements as they would "give it away."

1. We believe that the Holy Bible, written by man divinely inspired, and full of unmixed truth, is a perfect rule of faith and practice.
2. We believe in one God – Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
3. We believe that man, once holy, fell by voluntary transgression from that happy state, and is now utterly void of holiness.
4. We believe that sinners are saved by grace alone.
5. We believe that man is justified by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
6. We believe that salvation is free to all who will accept the Gospel.
7. We believe that, except a man be renewed by the Holy Spirit, he is not qualified or prepared for the king [sic] of Christ on earth, or to enjoy his glory hereafter.
8. We believe that repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ are the duties of everyone who hears the Gospel.
9. We believe that election is the eternal purpose of God, by which he graciously regenerates, sanctifies, and saves sinners.
10. We believe that sanctification, begun in regeneration, and ever progressive, is the process by which we are made to partake of God’s holiness.
11. We believe in the preservation of the saints; that they are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.
12. We believe that God’s law is the only, the eternal and unchangeable, rule of his church and moral government.
...
15. We believe that every Christian should be invited to partake of the Lord’s Supper, as a fulfillment of the divine command of the risen savior Jesus Christ which says, “This do in remembrance of me.”
16. We believe that the Lord’s day [sic] or Christian Sabbath should devoutly observed and sacredly devoted to religious service.
17. We believe that the civil government is of divine appointment, and that the governors of States and nations should be obeyed, when the laws they seek to enforce are not in conflict with the Gospel.
18. We believe in the future resurrection of the dead.
19. We believe in the final judgment; and that, in that day, the righteous and wicked will be separated forever.
20. We believe that the righteous will be made happy forever in heaven, and the wicked miserable forever in hell.
Click to expand...

I want to see if anyone on the PB can guess correctly! :detective:
 
It looks like a church without one of the historic confessions or creeds, albeit with a good "statement of faith."

The word "alone" would make it one of the historic protestant denominations (or copying their doctrine).

When we do get to the point of disclosing the answer, please post a reference so we can see the whole context of this statement. It will no doubt be surprising.
 
Maybe some sort of baptist or charismatic probably non-denominational with a knowledge of historical theology but does not want to go all out reformed. Trying to marry reformed with some man centeredness, trying to find a way to merge man's free response with God's sovereignty. :think:

It did not mention the rapture, most churches like to mention the rapture in their mission statement.
 
OK, let's tighten this up a bit. The church/denomination in question is Protestant. It is not a heretical cult.

As more of a hint, Shackleton has come closest to a correct guess, I believe.
 
SBC or Reformed Baptist. [I would qualify this but you are just asking for the denomination or group.]
 
It is not from a Baptist confession with which I'm familiar. Definitely not SBC. But it's probably some kind of Baptist. Craig may be right about it being Missionary Baptist or something similar.
 
I can't post at the blog,

So, I'll just ask here if the point of this exercise is to note how a "bare-bones" creed is of limited practical usefulness in:

a) stating what you believe; and
b) separating what you believe from the beliefs of others who actually disagree sharply and decisively
?

I'll just guess and say "Bethlehem Baptist" (John Piper) [wrong, btw, CM]
 
Contra_Mundum said:
I can't post at the blog,

So, I'll just ask here if the point of this exercise is to note how a "bare-bones" creed is of limited practical usefulness in:

a) stating what you believe; and
b) separating what you believe from the beliefs of others who actually disagree sharply and decisively
?
Click to expand...

I'm sure our brother must have some point with this exercise, but at this moment I can't see the point in trying to guess the origin of a statement that admittedly has the denominational distinctives edited out.

-----Added 1/1/2009 at 04:35:39 EST-----

It's not Bethlehem Baptist. Here's their Congregational Affirmation of Faith.
 
I don't know who owns it but it has snakes and it is not a good "statement of faith".


3. We believe that man, once holy, fell by voluntary transgression from that happy state, and is now utterly void of holiness.
Click to expand...

"void of holiness" is not the same as total depravity.

6. We believe that salvation is free to all who will accept the Gospel.
Click to expand...

Yes and Arminians say God elects those whom He knows will accept the gospel.



Have a blessed New Year,
 
Craig got it right!

When I was home on vacation last week, I asked my mom for her copy of the "Articles of Faith" of her church (the same church I grew up in). It is indeed a Missionary Baptist Church. I believe it was founded somewhere around 1847, which explains the lack of reference to dispensationalism and Pentecostalism (I'm sure the Articles have undergone some revisions over the years -- evident in the switch from Holy Ghost to Holy Spirit in some of the statements -- but not severe enough in include wholesale inclusion of these schools of though).

For what it's worth, here are the two articles that excluded, just to make it fun:

13. We believe that a church of Jesus Christ is a congregation of baptized believers, united in the faith and fellowship of the Gospel, observing the ordinances and obeying the laws of Christ; and that its officers are pastors and deacons.
14. We believe that Christian baptism is the immersion of a believer, in water, by a properly qualified administrator, in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Now, my reason for posting it is two-fold. First, I always have a difficult time explaining to my mother the differences b/t Baptists and Presbyterians (it's not like she's going to be content simply to take the WCF and read it). I expressed to her that apart from the two Articles mentioned above, I would find the Articles agreeable (they are "bare-bones" enough, as CM stated above). Yes, there are a few things I would like to be stated more precisely (e.g., the Scriptures are not just "a" perfect rule of faith and practice, justification is through faith in Christ alone, etc.). But generally it is not a bad statement of faith -- especially for a rural Missionary Baptist church -- even if it is not as thorough as we might like. Showing my mom the various points of agreement is helpful, I think.

But second, I think it might highlight the "uselessness" of confessions if one does not hold to them. For instance, I have no doubt that this church is now thoroughly dispensational and Arminian in its theology. I'm wondering how many churches of the same persuasion have similar Articles of Faith, and how many would essentially be out of accord with the statements (or at least very uncomfortable). For example, the references to election, the Christian Sabbath, use of terminology like "regeneration," the unchangeable nature of God's law, etc. Would I be incorrect to say that many Baptists (or many evangelicals, to broaden the parameters a bit) would find such a confession objectionable?

-----Added 1/2/2009 at 09:57:36 EST-----

I saw this video on James White's website this morning. In light of this thread, it is very interesting that a Mormon can serve up a vague confession that sounds "Christian." It highlights the need we have for confessionalism, I suppose.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijUc7NI2O28&e]Video: Is Mormonism Christian?[/ame]
 
My question for the PB: are the statements Calvinistic "enough"? Would they make an Arminian Baptist today uncomfortable? And for RB/SBCers, how would such a confession fly in those circles?
 
Manley,
Is this a good statement?

10. We believe that sanctification, begun in regeneration, and ever progressive, is the process by which we are made to partake of God’s holiness.
Click to expand...

Thanks,


ManleyBeasley said:
Gesetveemet said:
Yes and Arminians say God elects those whom He knows will accept the gospel.
Click to expand...
True, but Calvinists believe that only the elect will accept the gospel. Their statement is not anti-calvinist.
Click to expand...

-----Added 1/2/2009 at 06:25:50 EST-----

Marrow Man said:
My question for the PB: are the statements Calvinistic "enough"?
Click to expand...

I'm mostly a lurker on the PB but my :2cents: is that "The Statement of Faith/Confession" is not Calvinistic enough.

1 It's void of the doctrine of total depravity.
2 There is no mention of man being dead in sins and trespasses.
3 No mention of when regeneration takes place and puts regeneration with election.
Man can only accept the gospel after God makes a person alive.



Lets remember that alone and by themselves 2 articles of the Remonstrants were pretty good.

Article 1.
That God, by an eternal and unchangeable purpose in Jesus Christ his Son before the foundation of the world, has determined that out of the fallen, sinful race of men, to save in Christ, for Christ’s sake, and through Christ, those who through the grace of the Holy Spirit shall believe on this his son Jesus, and shall persevere in this faith and obedience of faith, through this grace, even to the end; and, on the other hand, to leave the incorrigible and unbelieving in sin and under wrath and to condemn them as alienated from Christ, according to the word of the Gospel in John 3:36: “He that believes on the Son has everlasting life: and he that does not believe the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him,” and according to other passages of Scripture also.

Article 3.
That man does not posses saving grace of himself, nor of the energy of his free will, inasmuch as in his state of apostasy and sin he can of and by himself neither think, will, nor do any thing that is truly good (such as saving Faith eminently is); but that it is necessary that he be born again of God in Christ, through his Holy Spirit, and renewed in understanding, inclination, and will, and all his faculties, in order that he may rightly understand, think, will, and effect what is truly good, according to the Word of Christ, John 15:5, “Without me you can do nothing.”
Click to expand...


Have a good Lord's day,


.
 
Marrow Man said:
My question for the PB: are the statements Calvinistic "enough"? Would they make an Arminian Baptist today uncomfortable? And for RB/SBCers, how would such a confession fly in those circles?
Click to expand...

In my humble opinion from a baptist background, if one were forced to distill doctrines down to single sentences, i think they're mostly fair statements. I think someone mentioned that the word "alone" would have been helpful, like for point 5 regarding justification by faith. I'm not familiar with Missionary Baptist churches, but i guess from the posts that they wouldn't actually adhere to many of these statements?
 
Gesetveemet said:
Manley,
Is this a good statement?

10. We believe that sanctification, begun in regeneration, and ever progressive, is the process by which we are made to partake of God’s holiness.
Click to expand...

Thanks,


ManleyBeasley said:
True, but Calvinists believe that only the elect will accept the gospel. Their statement is not anti-calvinist.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I didn't comment on the first statement, just the conclusion you drew from the second one.
 
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