RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
This thread challenged me this week. I didn't watch the CSI Triple Special tonight. A small step for me but an important one.
Had to give up the Simpsons, and Family Guy is next
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VirginiaHuguenot
Puritanboard Librarian
Keith Green You Love The World (And You're Avoiding Me) lyrics
I want you here with me.
But you've been keeping other company.
You can't sit still, it's plain to see.
You love the world and you're avoiding me.
My word sits there upon your desk.
But you love your books and magazines the best.
You prefer the light of your TV.
You love the world, and you're avoiding me.
You used to pray, you were so brave.
Now you can't keep even one appointment we've made.
Oh I gave my blood, to save you life.
Tell me, tell me is it right?
Will you leave me here along again tonight?
Well I love you, still more and more.
But you're fighting everything I'm working for.
You're acting like my enemy.
You love the world and you're avoiding me.
These other loves, they're hurting you.
If you end up losing me, then what will you do?
Oh, I gave my blood, to save your life.
Tell me, tell me is it right?
Will you leave me here alone again tonight?
Well, I want you, here with me.
But you've been keeping other company.
You prefer the light, of your TV.
You love the world, and you're avoiding me.
You love the world, you love the world,
You love the world and you're avoiding me.
Oh, you love the world.
You love the world and you're avoiding me.
I want you here with me.
But you've been keeping other company.
You can't sit still, it's plain to see.
You love the world and you're avoiding me.
My word sits there upon your desk.
But you love your books and magazines the best.
You prefer the light of your TV.
You love the world, and you're avoiding me.
You used to pray, you were so brave.
Now you can't keep even one appointment we've made.
Oh I gave my blood, to save you life.
Tell me, tell me is it right?
Will you leave me here along again tonight?
Well I love you, still more and more.
But you're fighting everything I'm working for.
You're acting like my enemy.
You love the world and you're avoiding me.
These other loves, they're hurting you.
If you end up losing me, then what will you do?
Oh, I gave my blood, to save your life.
Tell me, tell me is it right?
Will you leave me here alone again tonight?
Well, I want you, here with me.
But you've been keeping other company.
You prefer the light, of your TV.
You love the world, and you're avoiding me.
You love the world, you love the world,
You love the world and you're avoiding me.
Oh, you love the world.
You love the world and you're avoiding me.
That is a song I haven't heard in a few years. Now I gotta break out the old Keith Green CD's. I actually have his first two albums and Songs for the Shepherd on 8 track tapes. Am I showing my age.
Okay, I am going to kill my TV now. I lived without one for years. Then After a few years of marriage I broke down and permitted one in the house. Now It is hooked up to cable.
[Edited on 7-16-2005 by puritancovenanter]
Okay, I am going to kill my TV now. I lived without one for years. Then After a few years of marriage I broke down and permitted one in the house. Now It is hooked up to cable.
[Edited on 7-16-2005 by puritancovenanter]
Martin,
I too went years without a TV,and I'm thinking of trashing mine as well. However, if you can turn it on just for the news (but who would want to) the tv in and of itself is not evil. It's when we spend hour upon hour filling our minds with nonsense. I refuse to pay for cable or satelite. I get three channels in, snowy! LOL
The difficult thing to face is wether we put other things that are "good" like PB, in front of God!
Just my two cents.
Lori
I too went years without a TV,and I'm thinking of trashing mine as well. However, if you can turn it on just for the news (but who would want to) the tv in and of itself is not evil. It's when we spend hour upon hour filling our minds with nonsense. I refuse to pay for cable or satelite. I get three channels in, snowy! LOL
The difficult thing to face is wether we put other things that are "good" like PB, in front of God!
Just my two cents.
Lori
VirginiaHuguenot
Puritanboard Librarian
I think that, like all things made by God (and his servant George Washington Carver), peanut butter is a good thing in moderation. Wait...what's that you say?....a different PB? oh....
BlackCalvinist
Puritan Board Senior
I'm glad a few folks have started noticing.....
The problem is not the TV itself.... the problem is our flesh. If the TV had never been invented, our flesh would find some other means of distraction from the Word or other means to engage in entertainment and fleshly indulgence - whether it be things like PB (which CAN be an idol), studying more THEOLOGY BOOKS than spending time in SCRIPTURE, plays and the theatre, etc.....
Now if the TV's a temptation, toss it. I don't spend as much time in front of the TV, but I do spend a bit more time in front of the computer. I've tried to trim that down a bit recently (with success) and more time in scripture (a little inconsistent, but much better than before).
In the end, it all comes down what Paul said about 'beating his body' - agonidzomai - it's not supposed to be easy. But as we move closer to Jesus' appearing and our inevitable departure, our growth and sanctification should bring to our minds the realization that it's worth it.
For me, it used to be the radio. I forced myself out of the habit of consistent secular radio years ago by going for 3-4 months without listening for more than 2-5 mins, if at all, over the course of a week. Instead, I listened to Christian radio and programs. I had gospel music (better than nothing!) and spent time in the scriptures. Today, I can now listen to secular music with CONTROL. Usually, my tolerance level is not much for it (it just does NOT interest me anymore!) and I'm quicker to flip to Renewing Your Mind or if nothing good's on, nothing at all.
I just bought an iPod Mini 2 days ago, so now I'll be filling the 'Pod up with various sermons and things as well as good 'old school' secular music, Christian music, etc....
The problem is not the TV itself.... the problem is our flesh. If the TV had never been invented, our flesh would find some other means of distraction from the Word or other means to engage in entertainment and fleshly indulgence - whether it be things like PB (which CAN be an idol), studying more THEOLOGY BOOKS than spending time in SCRIPTURE, plays and the theatre, etc.....
Now if the TV's a temptation, toss it. I don't spend as much time in front of the TV, but I do spend a bit more time in front of the computer. I've tried to trim that down a bit recently (with success) and more time in scripture (a little inconsistent, but much better than before).
In the end, it all comes down what Paul said about 'beating his body' - agonidzomai - it's not supposed to be easy. But as we move closer to Jesus' appearing and our inevitable departure, our growth and sanctification should bring to our minds the realization that it's worth it.
For me, it used to be the radio. I forced myself out of the habit of consistent secular radio years ago by going for 3-4 months without listening for more than 2-5 mins, if at all, over the course of a week. Instead, I listened to Christian radio and programs. I had gospel music (better than nothing!) and spent time in the scriptures. Today, I can now listen to secular music with CONTROL. Usually, my tolerance level is not much for it (it just does NOT interest me anymore!) and I'm quicker to flip to Renewing Your Mind or if nothing good's on, nothing at all.
I just bought an iPod Mini 2 days ago, so now I'll be filling the 'Pod up with various sermons and things as well as good 'old school' secular music, Christian music, etc....
In defense of Bartman:
I think that the religious content of the Simpsons is simply the animated, dramatic form of larknews.com. And that's why I love it.
And Dr. McMahon, I cut myself on much sharper things and have much more "crack-like" amusements to pull myself away from than the Simpsons.
I think that the religious content of the Simpsons is simply the animated, dramatic form of larknews.com. And that's why I love it.
And Dr. McMahon, I cut myself on much sharper things and have much more "crack-like" amusements to pull myself away from than the Simpsons.
My dear Andrew, I'm sure you might have been leaning into nostalgia...so please don't take personal offense at this. I'm sure many of us may have "emotional-blind-spots" when it comes to pop-music. You may wish to take a closer look at the theology of Mr. Green....
...the, self-righteous, sentimental, effeminate Arminian attitude- misrepresentations of "God" in that Keith Green song are an offense and hugely different than the attributes of the Sovereign Lord that governs even our own descent into frivolous or dangerous sins.
Pick any of the Pauline diatribes/exhortations....pick Calvin....Augustine...John Owens...go for it...
But please THROW-OUT attachments to music that portrays the glorified Christ's attitude as manipulative, effeminate and needy to our contributions in creation. Such are blasphemy. What horrible theology. Bleah!!!
Here is a brief critique of the lyric:
"You're avoiding me.." What? Can God be avoided? Is the Lord waiting for our help in His purposes? Praying to Him is "brave" on our part? How is that? We leave Him "alone?" Has God ever been lonely? Can we leave him at all? I thought He never leaves us. How does that work? "I love you more and more..." Christ can't love us more and more - God's decree in eternity past and Christ's work at the cross are ultimate and irrefutable. Can we be stupified by sin so much that we lose God and salvaton? I thought Scripture teaches once we trust Him for salvation and are justified, we get as much of Him as we'll every have in eternity - which is all of Him.
Scripture paints a very different picture of the Christian who struggles with ongoing sin and weakness.
Please re-think the theology of Keith Green. (Of course, NOW, he has much better theology!)
In courtesy and caring..
Robin
[Edited on 7-16-2005 by Robin]
...the, self-righteous, sentimental, effeminate Arminian attitude- misrepresentations of "God" in that Keith Green song are an offense and hugely different than the attributes of the Sovereign Lord that governs even our own descent into frivolous or dangerous sins.
Pick any of the Pauline diatribes/exhortations....pick Calvin....Augustine...John Owens...go for it...
But please THROW-OUT attachments to music that portrays the glorified Christ's attitude as manipulative, effeminate and needy to our contributions in creation. Such are blasphemy. What horrible theology. Bleah!!!
Here is a brief critique of the lyric:
"You're avoiding me.." What? Can God be avoided? Is the Lord waiting for our help in His purposes? Praying to Him is "brave" on our part? How is that? We leave Him "alone?" Has God ever been lonely? Can we leave him at all? I thought He never leaves us. How does that work? "I love you more and more..." Christ can't love us more and more - God's decree in eternity past and Christ's work at the cross are ultimate and irrefutable. Can we be stupified by sin so much that we lose God and salvaton? I thought Scripture teaches once we trust Him for salvation and are justified, we get as much of Him as we'll every have in eternity - which is all of Him.
Scripture paints a very different picture of the Christian who struggles with ongoing sin and weakness.
Please re-think the theology of Keith Green. (Of course, NOW, he has much better theology!)
In courtesy and caring..
Robin
[Edited on 7-16-2005 by Robin]
It's a song...not really trying to show a particular attribute of God, rather, our not attending to worshipping Him. The prophets paint similar pictures...not saying I agree with Green's theology or even that song completely, but it's more about our neglect than it is about God being needy.Originally posted by Robin
My dear Andrew, I'm sure you might have been leaning into nostalgia...so please don't take personal offense at this. I'm sure many of us may have "emotional-blind-spots" when it comes to pop-music. You may wish to take a closer look at the theology of Mr. Green....
...the, self-righteous, sentimental, effeminate Arminian attitude- misrepresentations of "God" in that Keith Green song are an offense and hugely different than the attributes of the Sovereign Lord that governs even our own descent into frivolous or dangerous sins.
Pick any of the Pauline diatribes/exhortations....pick Calvin....Augustine...John Owens...go for it...
But please THROW-OUT attachments to music that portrays the glorified Christ's attitude as manipulative, effeminate and needy to our contributions in creation. Such are blasphemy. What horrible theology. Bleah!!!
Here is a brief critique of the lyric:
"You're avoiding me.." What? Can God be avoided? Is the Lord waiting for our help in His purposes? Praying to Him is "brave" on our part? How is that? We leave Him "alone?" Has God ever been lonely? Can we leave him at all? I thought He never leaves us. How does that work? "I love you more and more..." Christ can't love us more and more - God's decree in eternity past and Christ's work at the cross are ultimate and irrefutable. Can we be stupified by sin so much that we lose God and salvaton? I thought Scripture teaches once we trust Him for salvation and are justified, we get as much of Him as we'll every have in eternity - which is all of Him.
Scripture paints a very different picture of the Christian who struggles with ongoing sin and weakness.
Please re-think the theology of Keith Green. (Of course, NOW, he has much better theology!)
In courtesy and caring..
Robin
[Edited on 7-16-2005 by Robin]
VirginiaHuguenot
Puritanboard Librarian
Robin,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. My reference to Keith Green's song is not an endorsement of his Arminian theology, of which I am fully aware. His theology has been much discussed on the PB previously and it's not my theology. Many times on the PB folks are referred to without there being a full endorsement of their theology. I also hear what you are saying about the "needy"-sounding lyrics. In general, I have a problem myself with compositions that attempt to speak or put the author's words in the mouth of Christ (cf. Milton's Paradise Lost). It is only the point being made in the song that we often prefer the spending time with the light of TV rather than the light of God's Word that I wished to convey. I believe there is a place for TV in the balanced life of a believer. It is, to me, a matter of Christian prudence and liberty. I am all for the arts and other benefits of TV in the context of those principles. I think I made those points previously in this thread. Again, I don't endorse Keith Green's theology, just his point about how we should make God's Word the priority in our lives over TV entertainment. I do think he was an extremely gifted musician and I would rather listen to him than most in the CCM camp, but then I don't listen to much in the CCM camp - I prefer inspired psalms over uninspired hymns any day. One can easily critique the unBiblical aspects of the theology of Isaac Watts and specific Watts' hymns in particular, and yet acknowledge good Watts hymns or even stanzas. Isaac Watts thought some psalms were unChristian, after all. For us, I hope, there is no question about David's theology, right? My only point, and I do agree with your critique of this Keith Green song, is that there is good in it, relevant to the point of this thread, which was all that I wished to convey, without the rest of the Keith Green baggage.
[Edited on 7-17-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. My reference to Keith Green's song is not an endorsement of his Arminian theology, of which I am fully aware. His theology has been much discussed on the PB previously and it's not my theology. Many times on the PB folks are referred to without there being a full endorsement of their theology. I also hear what you are saying about the "needy"-sounding lyrics. In general, I have a problem myself with compositions that attempt to speak or put the author's words in the mouth of Christ (cf. Milton's Paradise Lost). It is only the point being made in the song that we often prefer the spending time with the light of TV rather than the light of God's Word that I wished to convey. I believe there is a place for TV in the balanced life of a believer. It is, to me, a matter of Christian prudence and liberty. I am all for the arts and other benefits of TV in the context of those principles. I think I made those points previously in this thread. Again, I don't endorse Keith Green's theology, just his point about how we should make God's Word the priority in our lives over TV entertainment. I do think he was an extremely gifted musician and I would rather listen to him than most in the CCM camp, but then I don't listen to much in the CCM camp - I prefer inspired psalms over uninspired hymns any day. One can easily critique the unBiblical aspects of the theology of Isaac Watts and specific Watts' hymns in particular, and yet acknowledge good Watts hymns or even stanzas. Isaac Watts thought some psalms were unChristian, after all. For us, I hope, there is no question about David's theology, right? My only point, and I do agree with your critique of this Keith Green song, is that there is good in it, relevant to the point of this thread, which was all that I wished to convey, without the rest of the Keith Green baggage.
[Edited on 7-17-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]
LawrenceU
Puritan Board Doctor
Jeesh, people get upset about the lyrics of a song written by someone who loved God, although his theology was not good; but, they will watch a show / listen to music that is written by pagans and blasphemous. - Go figgur. : banghead:
Robin, I'm not pointing at you. Your statement just brought to light comments that I've seen for several months from many others.
Hmm, I was auto censored. I didn't even know that sound was a real word. ( Read it with the sound of exasperated exhaled breath were 'censored' stands.
[Edited on 7-17-2005 by LawrenceU]
Robin, I'm not pointing at you. Your statement just brought to light comments that I've seen for several months from many others.
Hmm, I was auto censored. I didn't even know that sound was a real word. ( Read it with the sound of exasperated exhaled breath were 'censored' stands.
[Edited on 7-17-2005 by LawrenceU]
turmeric
Megerator
Love Not the World...
Keith Green was an excellent musician and I trust he's with Christ and over all that Arminian perfectionism, that said, the prophets do indeed compare God to a despised husband, as Israel chases after idols under every green tree, etc.
However I'm beginning to wonder, because of the nearly gnostic approach to the world a lot of us have soaked up in our Evanjellyfish past, if we've misunderstood something.
Try this on for size and tell me what you think...
Maybe the problem isn't (insert favorite secular activity here) vs. (insert pious behavior here), maybe the problem is coming to an understanding of God's Kingdom activity in this world. I'm thinking of the eschatological two-age thing; is this an activity I'll be pursuing in the next age, and is there a way to bring God's Kingdom to bear on it, or is this just a this-age thing, just for me? Does this, or can this bring glory to God and extend His visible rule, or is it just...entertainment, or consumerism?
Haven't got this figured out by any means...
Keith Green was an excellent musician and I trust he's with Christ and over all that Arminian perfectionism, that said, the prophets do indeed compare God to a despised husband, as Israel chases after idols under every green tree, etc.
However I'm beginning to wonder, because of the nearly gnostic approach to the world a lot of us have soaked up in our Evanjellyfish past, if we've misunderstood something.
Try this on for size and tell me what you think...
Maybe the problem isn't (insert favorite secular activity here) vs. (insert pious behavior here), maybe the problem is coming to an understanding of God's Kingdom activity in this world. I'm thinking of the eschatological two-age thing; is this an activity I'll be pursuing in the next age, and is there a way to bring God's Kingdom to bear on it, or is this just a this-age thing, just for me? Does this, or can this bring glory to God and extend His visible rule, or is it just...entertainment, or consumerism?
Haven't got this figured out by any means...
Meg,
I think you're on to something here. But let's be careful to acknowledge that to discard every activity we won't be pursuing in the age to come would leave us as monks.
It's precicely because the Simpsons is a "this age thing" that it can be taken for what it is. To take it so seriously is to act as if it had the authority of God's Word or something.
Think of marriage - we won't be given in marriage in the age to come, but is it something we should consider unprofitable simply because it's an institution that belongs to this age? Of course not.
I'm all for entertainment. We just need to remember that it's entertainment and not the voice of God. It's our hearing something else's claim to be God and our buying into it that makes it idolatry. In fact, idols are mute - its us who pretend to hear them saying things. The most excellent gifts and comforts God gives us in this age are good - it's our abuse of them and our kneeling before them in worship that make them idols. Similarly, it's the "ism" of consumption that becomes idolatry...but try not consuming anything God's providentially given you for a few weeks and see how your health goes.
Can we do things "coram Deo" that aren't "advancing the Kingdom of God"? Can we find ourselves living, moving and having our being in Christ even when we're being a couch potato for a couple of hours here and there? I'd say so.
To put it another way, are amusements bad? I just realized this week that the word amusement actually means literally to be without thought. To veg out.
I'd say that to be amused every now and again might actually find us starting to muse of the Promised Land. I thought about heaven the whole ride home from the amusement park last week. "That was pretty lame for 35 bucks - and it was hot and humid and I bought a lukewarm Diet Coke for $4. I'm thankful for the thrills, but the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven is going to have to take a different approach if it's going to satisfy." And what I came away with was YES, it takes a different approach - an age-to-come approach.
I think you're on to something here. But let's be careful to acknowledge that to discard every activity we won't be pursuing in the age to come would leave us as monks.
It's precicely because the Simpsons is a "this age thing" that it can be taken for what it is. To take it so seriously is to act as if it had the authority of God's Word or something.
Think of marriage - we won't be given in marriage in the age to come, but is it something we should consider unprofitable simply because it's an institution that belongs to this age? Of course not.
I'm all for entertainment. We just need to remember that it's entertainment and not the voice of God. It's our hearing something else's claim to be God and our buying into it that makes it idolatry. In fact, idols are mute - its us who pretend to hear them saying things. The most excellent gifts and comforts God gives us in this age are good - it's our abuse of them and our kneeling before them in worship that make them idols. Similarly, it's the "ism" of consumption that becomes idolatry...but try not consuming anything God's providentially given you for a few weeks and see how your health goes.
Can we do things "coram Deo" that aren't "advancing the Kingdom of God"? Can we find ourselves living, moving and having our being in Christ even when we're being a couch potato for a couple of hours here and there? I'd say so.
To put it another way, are amusements bad? I just realized this week that the word amusement actually means literally to be without thought. To veg out.
I'd say that to be amused every now and again might actually find us starting to muse of the Promised Land. I thought about heaven the whole ride home from the amusement park last week. "That was pretty lame for 35 bucks - and it was hot and humid and I bought a lukewarm Diet Coke for $4. I'm thankful for the thrills, but the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven is going to have to take a different approach if it's going to satisfy." And what I came away with was YES, it takes a different approach - an age-to-come approach.
I love Keith Greens album Songs for the Shepherd. To Bad. 
I like some of OZZY's music also. Have you ever heard Perry Mason or My little Man? Great songs.
[Edited on 7-18-2005 by puritancovenanter]
I like some of OZZY's music also. Have you ever heard Perry Mason or My little Man? Great songs.
[Edited on 7-18-2005 by puritancovenanter]
RamistThomist
Puritanboard Clerk
Its kinda like Ray Boltz's songs; the theology can be suspect at times ("The Altar") but there aint no denying some of his stuff is powerful. His song, "I Pledge Allegiance to the Lamb", especially the brief introit at the beginning and end, will make every politically correct Christian cringe.
Puritanhead
Puritan Board Professor
Owing to the randomness of this thread.... why not publish this?
BlackCalvinist
Puritan Board Senior
Shark actually tastes pretty good with some honey mustard sauce.
Puritanhead
Puritan Board Professor
Slice them vertical and they make great shark steak fillets... but a Reconstructionist friend of mine told me shark-meat is not kosher... oh well!
I prefer to tango with sharks on my plate... I once was fishing with someone and caught the submerging dorsel fin and omninous underwater shadow of a shark out of the corner of my eye. The shark was bigger than the boat... Needless to say, I will never again jump out of a boat in middle of ocean, nor will I stupidly wade and swim across an inlet... Currents don't scare me, but sharks do.
I saw on the Discovery Channel once-- where a shark ripped this guy's calf muscle off, but the guy was stupidly sitting in Jaws' cereal bowl with a dozen frenzied bull sharks and wonders why he becomes food.
cupotea
Puritan Board Junior
Congratulations and
for you! That's hard, and it's good that you have a strong enough conscience to stick to it. I'm glad I didn't see that episode of Family Guy, because that does sound really offensive. When TV attacks Jesus himself, that bothers me, because that's uncalled for. Who the heck is anybody to attack our Saviour?
But when TV shows attack modern Christians, that's a different story. A lot of you guys are from the South, and are basically living in a different world than us Yanks (yes I realize I'm Canadian, but I'm Boston for the summer!).
The church up here is a joke, and I think some TV shows are right to expose us for the hypocrites we are. I think especially of Rev. Lovejoy on the Simpsons, the slacker minister, and even of Homer Simpson, who goes to church every Sunday yet doesn't even know that the Redeemer's name was Jesus.
Don't forget, in Toronto, the churches have gay flags up, and "Christians" take the Lord's name in vain on a regular basis. And here I am, professing to be a Christian, and yet insulting fellow Christians for their faults as though I haven't sinned myself. See what I mean?
- Status
