Halloween - Doctrine of the Practices of that Day

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Peter

Puritan Board Junior
Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia
Originally posted by sola_gratia
Some christians I know are having a party on halloween, and I know people will be dressing up and all that. They want me to come, and I don't know if I should. What do you think? I told them I won't be dressing up if I do, but that I am still thinking about whether or not I am going to come.

[Edited on 10-15-2005 by sola_gratia]

Dress up as the pope. It only seems appropriate.

I'll wait for Nov. 5th.
 

VirginiaHuguenot

Puritanboard Librarian
Originally posted by Scott Bushey
Originally posted by Puddleglum
Honest question here:

Can someone explain the difference between the "don't practice Halloween because it's associated with this bad stuff" argument (which is what I think I'm hearing here) and the "don't listen to rock music because it's associated with bad stuff" argument (which seems to not be a popular position here)?

Thanks,

-Jessica

[Edited on 10-15-2005 by Puddleglum]

Jessica,
Halloween is directly associated with evil. Music, per se, is not. However, I know there are many music groups that subscribe to the worship of devils. I suggest, for the believer to as well, reject those whom hold evil and the devil dear.

:ditto: I would also note that Halloween originated as a religious holiday --whether in honor of Samhain (pagan) or All Hallow's Eve (Roman Catholic) -- and religious holidays can never be adiaphora like music, etc. Simply apply the Regulative Principle of Worship to Halloween -- holiday that is acknowledged by most to honor the Satanic -- and see whether there is any Biblical warrant to observe the rituals associated with this holiday.
 

Puddleglum

Puritan Board Sophomore
Andrew,

You mentioned that Hallooween was originally a religious holiday (both pagan & RC). Does this mean that it is necessarily a religious observance today - why? Obviously, if it is intrinsically an act of worship, it's wrong. But I don't see how my 8-year-old (hypothetical) neighbour who dresses up as a pirate and goes trick-or-treating is worshipping pagan deities or saints anymore than he would be worshipping God if he were to attend a liberal church on Easter with his aunt.
Also, how does the RPW apply?

Scott,

Some music obviously worships the devil. Some obviously doesn't. And there's some that it's not obvious.
Some people celebrate Halloween in a way that obviously worships the devil. Some people engage in activities related to Halloween in a way that, at least to me, obviously doesn't - I knew a couple of guys from church who got together last year to carve pumpkins. It wasn't related to devil-worship. And there are some people who do some things that it isn't that obvious quite what they're really doing.
I'm still struggling to see the difference. The only argument that I can think of for something such as carving pumpkins being necessarily wrong, is that it has been, at times, associated with bad stuff. But do you say that anything that has ever been associated with something sinful is now necessarily wrong?
Back to music . . . I've been told that there is backtracking in some bands songs (i.e. Led Zepplin) which your brain can supposedly pick up, and that the backtracking is devil-worship. I still enjoy Led Zepplin. Do you see that as wrong? (I'm trying to figure out where you're coming from).
Also, a lot of music, while not celebrating devil-worship, celebrates worship of many other things other than God. worshipping anything other than God is sinful - so would you think that that is also "off-limits"?
(Sorry if I'm turning this into a music thread!)
Maybe I'm not explaining the similarities that I see between the music arguments & the Halloween arguments . . . and maybe this is somewhat semantics. Are you saying that if you are celebrating Halloween, then you are worshipping the devil (and thus, if you are not worshipping the devil, you are not celebrating Halloween)? If that's the case, semantics may be part of the issue - I tend to think of celebrating Halloween as doing anything that has become culturally related to that date (such as pumpkin-carving), even if its not worshipping the devil (or saints, if you're RC).
 

VirginiaHuguenot

Puritanboard Librarian
Originally posted by Puddleglum
Andrew,

You mentioned that Hallooween was originally a religious holiday (both pagan & RC). Does this mean that it is necessarily a religious observance today - why? Obviously, if it is intrinsically an act of worship, it's wrong. But I don't see how my 8-year-old (hypothetical) neighbour who dresses up as a pirate and goes trick-or-treating is worshipping pagan deities or saints anymore than he would be worshipping God if he were to attend a liberal church on Easter with his aunt.
Also, how does the RPW apply?

I think what you are suggesting is that by simply calling a religious holiday "secular" (or letting "culture" do so over time) it loses its religious association. Granting for the sake of argument that this is possible -- which I do not in fact believe -- I would then ask the person who wants to go "trick-or-treating" why does he want to do this? What is he "celebrating" or "observing" exactly? If dressing up as a pirate to get candy is the ultimate goal, then why pick a day set apart by pagans for the worship of the devil or the Catholics for prayers for the dead? Why the need to "trick" people or scare people? It is just good harmless fun to obtain as much candy as possible from people? It this wholesome activity or gluttonous? If a young person wants to have fun in a wholesome way on this day why not observe the annual commemoration of Reformation Day (which is not a religious holiday but a civil holiday, a distinction of crucial importance, I might add)? Halloween is, as I mentioned, acknowledged by most today to be a traditional holiday for the celebration of that which is occultic and evil. Why would Christians want to partake of an evil holiday? The customs are not so innocent really. If someone wants to dress up as a pirate on the grounds that they have the Christian liberty to do so, then I will grant that dressing up as a pirate per se is not evil, but to do so to participate in an evil holiday makes it a religious act, whether the person is conscious of the fact or not.

The fact remains October 31 is still a date that pagans and Catholics set apart on the church calendars for religious observances that are unBiblical. Walk into a pagan or Catholic church on that date and see that the ancient religious observance is still going on (on second thought, don't walk into such churches). It has never stopped being a religious holiday to the people who invented the holiday and who continue its traditions and observances to the present day. That makes it a religious holiday whether atheists and agnostics (and Christians) want to partake of the traditions and rites or not. That being the case, religious holidays must be tested by the RPW, and there is indeed no warrant for such a religious holiday.

The Westminster Assembly's Directory for the Publick Worship of God was very conscious of the church calendar espoused by the Roman Church (and others) and -- on the grounds of the Regulative Principle of Worship -- banished all such holidays that lacked Scriptural warrant. That leaves only one religious holiday for Christians to observe -- the Lord's Day.

AN APPENDIX,
Touching Days and Places for Publick Worship.
THERE is no day commanded in scripture to be kept holy under the gospel but the Lord's day, which is the Christian Sabbath.

Festival days, vulgarly called Holy-days, having no warrant in the word of God, are not to be continued.

Nevertheless, it is lawful and necessary, upon special emergent occasions, to separate a day or days for publick fasting or thanksgiving, as the several eminent and extraordinary dispensations of God's providence shall administer cause and opportunity to his people.

[Edited on 10-16-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]
 

Puddleglum

Puritan Board Sophomore
Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
I think what you are suggesting is that by simply calling a religious holiday "secular" (or letting "culture" do so over time) it loses its religious association.

Yeah . . . letting "culture" remove some of the religious associations over time.

Granting for the sake of argument that this is possible -- which I do not in fact believe . . .

Okay - out of curiousity (and if it isn't too far off the point), why would you disagree?

. . . I would then ask the person who wants to go "trick-or-treating" why does he want to do this? What is he "celebrating" or "observing" exactly? If dressing up as a pirate to get candy is the ultimate goal, then why pick a day set apart by pagans for the worship of the devil or the Catholics for prayers for the dead? Why the need to "trick" people or scare people? It is just good harmless fun to obtain as much candy as possible from people? It this wholesome activity or gluttonous?

Yes, Halloween can be wrong.

Possible reasons a person could want to do it - to get candy, to have fun doing it with friends, because they're bored, because it's the "thing" to do . . . not necesarily because they're thinking of worshipping the devil.

Yes, there could be other reasons why it could be wrong - such as greed, gluttony.

But isn't it a possibility that a person could have ok reasons for doing that?

If a young person wants to have fun in a wholesome way on this day why not observe the annual commemoration of Reformation Day?

If they have that option . . . (btw, I've never been trick-or-treating, and think that Reformation Day parties can be good fun).

(which is not a religious holiday but a civil holiday, a distinction of crucial importance, I might add)

So you're saying that if something is a "civil holiday" it can be okay, but if it's a "religious holiday" then it's not possible for it to be okay? How come?

Halloween is, as I mentioned, acknowledged by most today to be a traditional holiday for the celebration of that which is occultic and evil. Why would Christians want to partake of an evil holiday? The customs are not so innocent really. If someone wants to dress up as a pirate on the grounds that they have the Christian liberty to do so, then I will grant that dressing up as a pirate per se is not evil, but to do so to participate in an evil holiday makes it a religious act, whether the person is conscious of the fact or not.

I guess where I'm not following you is that I don't get how the fact that some people celebrating Halloween in a sinful way makes it intrinsically sinful for everyone, whether or not they intend to worship pagans or saints.

The fact remains October 31 is still a date that pagans and Catholics set apart on the church calendars for religious observances that are unBiblical.

Agree.

Walk into a pagan or Catholic church on that date and see that the ancient religious observance is still going on (on second thought, don't walk into such churches).

:)

It has never stopped being a religious holiday to the people who invented the holiday and who continue its traditions and observances to the present day.

Agree.

That makes it a religious holiday whether atheists and agnostics (and Christians) want to partake of the traditions and rites or not.

This is where I'm not following you.

That being the case, religious holidays must be tested by the RPW, and there is indeed no warrant for such a religious holiday.

The Westminster Assembly's Directory for the Publick Worship of God was very conscious of the church calendar espoused by the Roman Church (and others) and -- on the grounds of the Regulative Principle of Worship -- banished all such holidays that lacked Scriptural warrant. That leaves only one religious holiday for Christians to observe -- the Lord's Day.

AN APPENDIX,
Touching Days and Places for Publick Worship.
THERE is no day commanded in scripture to be kept holy under the gospel but the Lord's day, which is the Christian Sabbath.

Festival days, vulgarly called Holy-days, having no warrant in the word of God, are not to be continued.

Nevertheless, it is lawful and necessary, upon special emergent occasions, to separate a day or days for publick fasting or thanksgiving, as the several eminent and extraordinary dispensations of God's providence shall administer cause and opportunity to his people.

Sunday is the only "holy day" - yes, I agree. The church doesn't get to make more "holy days" - agree. Halloween should not be a "holy day" - agree. And if Halloween falls on a Sunday, I would agree that Christians shouldn't celebrate it, because I don't think that celebrating Halloween and celebrating the Sabbath go together.

I don't see how if some non-Christians say that a certain day is a "holy day" we have to grant them the privilidge of getting to call a certain day a "holy day". They aren't treating it as a true holy day (i.e. the Sabbath). We know that it isn't a holy day. So why should we worry about unbelievers calling a day something that it isn't, when they can't even pretend to have any authority to do so?

Thanks (& sorry for my delay in replying - life is crazy!),
 

VirginiaHuguenot

Puritanboard Librarian
Jessica,

I understand about crazy schedules, believe me! No problem.

I'll try again to explain what I am getting at about Halloween. There are several issues at play here. We agree that Halloween started as a religious holiday by pagans and/or Roman Catholics. We agree that it is still considered such by the people that invented the holidays. From their perspective it is a matter of Satanic, occultic or superstitious religious observance (for pagans it is an 'unholy' day, for Catholics it is a 'holy day'). We also agree that there is one holy day appointed by God's Word, and no one has the warrant to invent new religious holidays (based on the RPW).

Where our views may start to diverge is whether "secular culture" is the final arbiter on whether the holiday can be celebrated or observed in such a way that those doing so are not partaking of a religious holiday. First of all, as I tried to make clear, it is not as if a majority of Americans agree that Halloween is a non-religious holiday. Most people, I think, acknowledge that Halloween is a celebration of the supernatural. The cultural fascination with ghouls, witches and goblins, I think, proves that. In Detroit, it is celebrated as "Devil's Night."

I tried to point out that those who invented the holiday still consider it to be a religious holiday because I think it is not up to individuals outside of pagan or Catholics circles to decide whether something like Halloween is religious or secular. That would be like me trying to partake of the rituals associated with Passover or Ramadan and doing so on the grounds that I can say those holidays have become secularized in the West and therefore it doesn't matter what their origins are or whether large numbers of people today consider them religious holidays, it only matters what my secular culture or my opinion has to say about it. Holidays don't work that way. Religious holidays are religious because their purpose is to honor God (or demons) in a special way. That is their raison d'etre. We can't just appropriate days consecrated by other religions (paganism, Catholicism, Islam, etc.) and partake of their rituals and claim that our conduct is innocent of their false religious beliefs. The Christian can and should recognize that every day is created by God and belongs to him, not to false gods, and likewise God created the food that is "sacrificed" to idols (in this case, candy). We can and should point this out and demonstrate our Christian liberty whereby we have been set free from being beholden to the superstitions associated with the day. Being set free from those superstitions means that we will not partake of those rituals. It does not make the candy unholy in itself -- it is not what goes into the mouth that makes us unclean but what comes out of the heart -- but that doesn't mean we can act as if we are free to celebrate a Satanic holiday in the name of Christian liberty. If a person wants to dress up and eat candy (in moderation) let them do so in a way that manifests their liberty in Christ, not being a slave to the day. For example, have a costume party in September. Take advantage of the Reformation day festivities. But when a Christian says "I want to celebrate Halloween in the name of Christian liberty" then I consider that to be a contradictory statement. We have been set free from celebrating religious days not appointed in God's Word. I have the liberty to eat a lamb and engage in other activities associated with Passover. But if I do it on the day that Jews celebrate their annual observance my activities will be become intertwined with theirs and thus a religious observance regardless of my claims otherwise. My protestations will ring hollow, no matter if I am acting out of ignorance or boredom or some other misguided or naive motive. If I abstain from fish on Fridays like traditional Roman Catholics still do today, I am intertwining my own activities with a false religious observance. If I light a bonfire to celebrate Devil's Night, it will be understood that I am partaking of a Satanic holiday. If I light a bonfire in celebration of Guy Fawke's Night, it will be understood that I am celebrating the historical commemoration of a providential deliverance from Popish schemes of domination.

The Fourth Commandment teaches us to 1) keep the Lord's Day holy 2) working in some manner on the other six days of the week, and 3) not observing other so-called 'holy days.' All Hallow's Eve falls into that latter category. The Second Commandment teaches us that whatever in the worship of God is not commanded is forbidden. Neither of those commandments allows us to pick and choose rituals from false religious holidays and partake them as we wish in the name of celebrating false religious holidays in a secular manner.

Candy and costumes are not the issue. Occultic and Catholic superstitions are the issue. They are the reasons for the rituals. Christians are taught to 'learn not the way of the heathen.' Yes, October 31 is good (which is why we can have our own wholesome fun in celebrating Reformation Day or else observing the Lord's Day); yes, candy is good, which is why it's cool for Christians to take advantage of after Halloween sales ;) ; yes, costumes are fun, which is why I propose costume parties. But when those rituals -- not to mention other unwholesome activities -- are partaken of with the specific intent of celebrating Halloween -- a holiday acknowledged to celebrate the supernatural in an unBiblical way -- then all those rituals are indivisible from the false religions with which the day is associated.

Now, about the distinction between "religious" and "civil" holidays. Some days like the Fourth of July are instituted by the civil magistrate. There is nothing religious about it. Yet, Christians may lawfully observe such days if there is nothing sinful required of them. Religious holidays are of a different character because when something is religious it is either Biblical or not Biblical. Biblical religious holidays are those commanded by God's Word and that is only true today of the Lord's Day. Purim is an example of a civil holiday in Scripture. It is used by the Westminster Assembly as justification for the right of magistrates to call for special days of celebration (like our Thanksgiving). But when the Pope invokes his authority to "consecrate" a day like Easter or Christ-mass or All Soul's Day, then such holidays are by their very nature religious. It does not matter if some people observe them without going to church, the Westminster Assembly says that such festivals, vulgarly called holy-days, having no warrant in the word of God, are not to be continued. True Christian liberty in such cases is not about partaking of the rituals associated with those days, but rather forsaking the rituals associated with those days.

So, again, bottom line: candy in moderation = good, costumes = fun, civil holidays = generally lawful, religous holidays = need Biblical warrant to partake of them, if there is none than those rituals should be shunned in the excercise of our Christian liberty. We should not be beholden to engage in lawful activities on a day that is superstitiously observed. If we want to celebrate something, let's celebrate Reformation Day or the Lord's Day. We should not partake of Satanic or Catholic holidays in the name of Christian liberty. We should rather pray about and testify against this wicked superstitious holiday.

December 10, Session 17, 1638.

And next in particular, concerning festival days findeth that in the explication of the first head of the first book of discipline it was thought good that the feasts of Christmas, Circumcision, Epiphany, with the feasts of the Apostles, Martyrs and Virgin Mary be utterly abolished because they are neither commanded nor warranted by Scripture and that such as observe them be punished by Civil Magistrates. Here utter abolition is craved and not reformation of abuses only and that because the observation of such feasts have no warrant from the word of God. (The Acts of the General Assemblies of the Church of Scotland, pp. 37-38)


[Edited on 10-18-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]
 

Saiph

Puritan Board Junior
I disagree with all of you. Halloween is not satanic. It is just cheesy.

The best argument for not celebrating it in my opinion is not the catholic origin, or witch-hunter paranoia misinformed occult label of "satanic", but because it is just plain ridiculous.

We are called to love God with our whole mind. So how can you be excercising that love when wearing red tights and rubber horns begging door to door for candy ?

I will close with the words of a fifth grade friend of mine, that made me never want to celebrate it again (and hopefully I won't get banned) :

"Dude, your going to dress up and go trick-or-treating ? ? That is so totally gay."
 

Puddleglum

Puritan Board Sophomore
Mark,
LOL. :)

Andrew,
So you're saying that celebrating Halloween would be like fasting during Ramadan? Though I'm not sure if fasting during Ramadan would be wrong - though it would be confusing if people knew that I was fasting; they'd assume I was a Muslim.
You said that "all those rituals are indivisible from the false religions with which the day is associated". I could make a division in my head. Is the point that people who see me won't be able to tell?
On religious v. civil holidays - I'm getting confused, because while Catholicism, for example, is a religion, the Pope is just another person, and he doesn't have any authority to change the status of a day. People may think differently - but if he said that the Sabbath was now Wednesday - so what? I'd still keep Sunday as the Sabbath. And I'd still go to RUF (which is very similar to a worship service, except that we don't have a call to worship - I'm assuming since it's Wednesday not Sunday) on Wednesday, even though it might look like I was going to church cause the Pope said Wednesday was now a holy day. But I'd know that Wednesday wasn't a holy day.
I guess I'm wondering why I should worry about people calling certain days "holy". They may think they are - but I know they aren't - so should I try to make it obvious that I know they aren't just to try to not confuse people? (For the same reason that I wouldn't wear my rainbow-colored T-shirt in Seattle on Gay Pride Day; there's nothing wrong with doing it, but it could definately confuse people & end up really embarassing me).
 

VirginiaHuguenot

Puritanboard Librarian
Jessica,

The people who dress up and go trick-or-treating for Halloween intend to celebrate a holiday. It is a religious holiday whether they confine themselves only to the outward, non-overtly religious aspects of it or whether they don't even think about what they are doing, which is the case for many Americans today, I'm sure. It is a holiday devoted to the celebration of the supernatural without Biblical warrant. Yes, how other people view your activities is a reason to avoid the appearance of evil. But the Puritan argument against participating in false religious holidays is grounded in the Biblical truth that only one religious holiday is commanded for us to observe, the Lord's Day.
 

Puddleglum

Puritan Board Sophomore
Okay.

So why is it a religious holiday even if people "don't even think about what they are doing"? Are you saying that it's still a religious holiday because other people think that it is / created it to be one?
 

VirginiaHuguenot

Puritanboard Librarian
Originally posted by Puddleglum
Okay.

So why is it a religious holiday even if people "don't even think about what they are doing"? Are you saying that it's still a religious holiday because other people think that it is / created it to be one?

People can go to church and go through the motions of religious worship without thinking of what they are doing or why. This is merely partaking of rituals in a vain manner. It is religious, but the acts are vain. Likewise, when people go through the motions of celebrating a religious holiday like Halloween without consciously trying to worship the devil, whose holiday it is, they are nevertheless partaking of the rituals of a false religious holiday in a vain manner.

There is no reason to partake of the rituals of a Satanic holiday. Christians are told to abstain from false religious rituals throughout the Scriptures (see Deut. 12.30, for example). Matt's article covers this very well, I think.

[Edited on 10-19-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]
 

pduggan

Puritan Board Freshman
If basicaly nobody (except neopagans who have a vested interest in spoiling innocent fun) views dressing up in a costume as

1. Giving them 'good luck'
2. honoring to any diety, real or imagined
3. honoring or celebrating the subject of their costume if it is associated with things considered threatening by the superstitious(*)

then I don't see how the claim that haloween represents a religious celebration or a celebration of supernatural evil is at all credible. It strikes me as a form of supestition itself.

Caspar the Friendly Ghost is not a 'celebration' of supernatural evil.

Count Chocula cereal is not a breakfast food that attacks the noahic prohibition on drinking blood.

(*) this has to be qualified because there can be many reasons for a particular costume choice. Kids dress up as batman or cinderella because they like imagining they are batman or cinderella because those are 'cool'. Kids do not dress up as ghosts or vampires for the same reasons, I suspect. They do so because its fun to pretend to be "scary". When mom pretends to jump at junior with a bedsheet going "boo", the child is amused. It doesn't mean he's celebrating the supernatural.

And wierd adults might dress up in costumes that do represent the wearers interest in promoting his own sinfulness, such as the typical slutty costumes that teen or older girls might wear around haloween(see Mean Girls for the skinny on that), but that doesn't alter the intent and meaning behind the choice of costume for small children.

[Edited on 10-20-2005 by pduggan]
 

Saiph

Puritan Board Junior
Paul,

When we have a great Christian celebration of the Reformation on the same day, why bother with Halloween ?

While everyone is outside running around in costumes of demons, and ghouls, and villians, my friends and family will be inside singing the words of Luther in juxtaposition to the heathen festivities.

Though devils all the world should fill,
All eager to devour us,
We tremble not, we fear no ill,
They shall not overpower us.
This world´s prince may still
Scowl fierce as he will,
He can harm us none,
He´s judged; the deed is done´
One little world can fell him.

[Edited on 10-20-2005 by Saiph]
 

pduggan

Puritan Board Freshman
Originally posted by SaiphWhile everyone is outside running around in costumes of demons, and ghouls, and villians, my friends and family will be inside singing the words of Luther in juxtaposition to the heathen festivities.
[Edited on 10-20-2005 by Saiph]

Isn't that rather insular? Is the reformation just for tight little groups huddled in homes (seemingly) in fear of contamination from people doing stuff that is pretending to be like things that are partially maybe associated with goofed on versions of evil (several steps removed here).

I like this quote from Justin Taylor (quoting Tim Challies)
I am guessing my neighbourhood is all-too-typical in that most people arrive home from work and immediately drive their cars into the garage. More often than not they do not emerge again until the next morning when they leave for work once more. It would be a terrible breach of Canadian social etiquette for me to knock on a person's door and ask them for a small gift or even just to say "hello" to them. Yet on Halloween this barriers all come down. I have the opportunity to greet every person in the neighbourhood. I have the opportunity to introduce myself to the family who moved in just down the street a few weeks ago and to greet some other people I have not seen for weeks or months. At the same time, those people's children will come knocking on my door. We have two possible responses. We can turn the lights out and sit inside, seeking to shelter ourselves from the pagan influence of the little Harry Potters, Batmans and ballerinas, or we can greet them, gush over them, and make them feel welcome. We can prove ourselves to be the family who genuinelly cares about our neighbours, or we can be the family who shows that we want to interact with them only on our terms.
 

Saiph

Puritan Board Junior
Isn't that rather insular? Is the reformation just for tight little groups huddled in homes (seemingly) in fear of contamination from people doing stuff that is pretending to be like things that are partially maybe associated with goofed on versions of evil (several steps removed here).

One night a year to celebrate the Reformation is hardly insular.
I am not saying to hide away from the world all the time. But if MardiGras is going outside of my window, you bet I am staying inside.

or we can be the family who shows that we want to interact with them only on our terms.

Or we can be the family who shows that we want to interact with them only on Christ's terms.

[Edited on 10-20-2005 by Saiph]
 

pduggan

Puritan Board Freshman
Originally posted by Saiph
But if MardiGras is going outside of my window, you bet I am staying inside.

See i don't see them as equivalent. You have rampaging drunks and girls flashing their private parts on halloween, sure then don't pariticpate.

My neighborhood it's not at all like that.
 

Saiph

Puritan Board Junior
Fair enough Paul. It is not sexual debauchery, but it is pagan idolatry. So how about a gay pride parade going down your street ?

Would you pass out water bottles to the marchers ?
 

Puddleglum

Puritan Board Sophomore
Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
This is merely partaking of rituals in a vain manner.
. . .
There is no reason to partake of the rituals of a Satanic holiday. Christians are told to abstain from false religious rituals throughout the Scriptures (see Deut. 12.30, for example).

Hmm . . . I'll have to think about that! Thanks, Andrew. :)
 

VirginiaHuguenot

Puritanboard Librarian
Originally posted by Puddleglum
Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
This is merely partaking of rituals in a vain manner.
. . .
There is no reason to partake of the rituals of a Satanic holiday. Christians are told to abstain from false religious rituals throughout the Scriptures (see Deut. 12.30, for example).

Hmm . . . I'll have to think about that! Thanks, Andrew. :)

You're welcome, Jessica. God bless! :)
 

pduggan

Puritan Board Freshman
Originally posted by Saiph
Fair enough Paul. It is not sexual debauchery, but it is pagan idolatry. So how about a gay pride parade going down your street ?

Would you pass out water bottles to the marchers ?

Not at all.

I also don't see any second commandment violations. Nobody is burning incense, or bowing to statues, or slaughtering animals on altars, or kissing icons.

They're wearing goofy costumes. Where is that a sin?
 

Saiph

Puritan Board Junior
I also don't see any second commandment violations. Nobody is burning incense, or bowing to statues, or slaughtering animals on altars, or kissing icons.

Anything not done in faith is sin remember.

He that is not for me is against me.

And didn't the Beatitudes reveal that idolatry is a heart attitude, not just prostration before a statue ? ?


Brother, you have the liberty to do whatever you want on Halloween.
It falls on a Monday this year. :bigsmile:

I personally want to contrast the inane celebrations and trick-or-treating with a thanksgiving party for the reformation.

If you choose to evangelize your neighbors, great, and seriously, my prayers are with you.

I think I will save that for the other 300+ days of the year.

[Edited on 10-21-2005 by Saiph]
 

Peters

Puritan Board Freshman
I disagree with all of you. Halloween is not satanic. It is just cheesy.

The best argument for not celebrating it in my opinion is not the catholic origin, or witch-hunter paranoia misinformed occult label of "satanic", but because it is just plain ridiculous.

We are called to love God with our whole mind. So how can you be excercising that love when wearing red tights and rubber horns begging door to door for candy ?

I will close with the words of a fifth grade friend of mine, that made me never want to celebrate it again (and hopefully I won't get banned) :

"Dude, your going to dress up and go trick-or-treating ? ? That is so totally gay."

Brilliant"¦and I cracked up too.



Anything not done in faith is sin remember.

He that is not for me is against me.

And didn't the Beatitudes reveal that idolatry is a heart attitude, not just prostration before a statue ? ?


Brother, you have the liberty to do whatever you want on Halloween.
It falls on a Monday this year.

I personally want to contrast the inane celebrations and trick-or-treating with a thanksgiving party for the reformation.

If you choose to evangelize your neighbors, great, and seriously, my prayers are with you.

I think I will save that for the other 300+ days of the year.

I agree with you, brother.
 

Plimoth Thom

Puritan Board Freshman
Many of the practices of the modern American celebration of halloween can be traced to the Puritan New England celebration of Pope's Day, Nov. 5th.

On Pope's Day, large rolling stages would be built which were pushed through the streets at night. On the stage were usually large lanterns on which were scrawled "uncouth figures and rhyms," (in Portsmouth, instead of lanterns, carved pumpkins were used), a mimic Pope, monks, friars and other hated figures like Admiral Byng, and a large Old Nick with tail, horns and pitchfork. These figures could be worked like marionettes. Dancing around on the stage as it rolled through the streets were boys dressed in tarred and feathered coats to represent the Devil's imps. They would play with cards (the Devil's picturebook) on the Bible and kiss the Pope. The procession beating their popes drums and blowing their whistles and horns would stop at affluent houses throughout the city where they would recieve food and drink, or the purser would collect money for food and liquor. If such were denied, retribution could be expected from the mob, hence our "trick or treat." Throughout the night the procession would be followed by a large crowd of men and boys, which would eventually end with a large bonfire and the Pope would be burned along with much of the stage and anything else flamable that could be found nearby. In the smaller towns the celebration was mostly harmless. But in Boston the two rival North and South gangs each had their own Popes and they would meet on the bridge across Mill Creek (the dividing line between North End and South) and do battle for the other side's Pope. Rocks and paving stones were thrown, clubs and cudgels swung, and it was not uncommon for men to be injured or killed in these Pope's Day battles. Eventually one side would get their Pope across the bridge and then both gangs would proceed peacefully to Boston Neck and burn their Popes in a huge bonfire.

[Edited on 10-28-2005 by Plimoth Thom]
 
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