Featured Has Your Understanding of Baptism Changed?

Discussion in 'Baptism' started by Tom Hart, Sep 11, 2019 at 1:36 AM.

  1. No change

    9 vote(s)
    15.3%
  2. Paedo-baptism to credo-baptism

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Credo-baptism to paedo-baptism

    35 vote(s)
    59.3%
  4. Wrestled with credo-baptism, but settled on paedo-baptism

    3 vote(s)
    5.1%
  5. Wrestled with paedo-baptism, but settled on credo-baptism

    7 vote(s)
    11.9%
  6. Currently paedo-baptist struggling with credo-baptism.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Currently credo-baptist struggling with paedo-baptism.

    4 vote(s)
    6.8%
  8. Other

    1 vote(s)
    1.7%
  1. Tom Hart

    Tom Hart Puritan Board Junior

    Well, I think you'll all agree that it's time for another baptism thread.;)

    Did your view of baptism change? What was it that first got you thinking about another perspective? What was it that sealed the deal for you?

    Has your view of baptism remained the same? Did you ever struggle with another view? What was it that sealed the deal for you?

    In case a lot of people do end up replying, I'd ask that the debates be saved for another thread. Otherwise it'll get too confusing. (And, really, we don't need another baptism debate just yet.) I intend this thread as more of a survey, and one which, I hope, will be helpful for people considering this weighty topic.
     
  2. Tom Hart

    Tom Hart Puritan Board Junior

    To clarify:

    There are two poll responses that are not clearly written.

    By "Currently struggling with paedo-baptism" I mean a credo-baptist currently struggling with paedo-baptism.

    And by "Currently struggling with credo-baptism" I mean a paedo-baptist currently struggling with credo-baptism.

    Sorry, I can't seem to edit those now. Perhaps a moderator can sort it?
     
  3. Taylor Sexton

    Taylor Sexton Puritan Board Junior

    I struggled with the baptism issue all the way through seminary. What was hard for me is that I couldn't quite figure out the differences and debates between 1689 Federalism and Westminster covenant theology. I knew they were different, and I knew somewhat how, but I couldn't make sense of how to sort through evaluation biblically.

    What ended up convincing me of paedobaptism were two people: Dabney and Vos.
     
  4. PuritanCovenanter

    PuritanCovenanter Moderator Staff Member

    I was a Reformed Baptist for 30 years before I became a Reformed theologian. Gaining a better understanding of scripture, the various views of Covenant Theology, and Ecclesiology caused me to make the change in 2011. Studying the Law /Gospel issue as it related to the Mosaic Covenant was a big influence in my change of understanding.
     
  5. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    Edited. I hoped I fixed the right.
     
  6. Tom Hart

    Tom Hart Puritan Board Junior

    Thanks. I appreciate it.
     
  7. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    What was the main issue that caused you to switch ?
     
  8. Romans922

    Romans922 Puritan Board Professor

    Did my view change in what time period? Recently or ever?

    Also, I'm taking "Credo-baptism" to mean "Credo-only-baptism". And by "Paedo-baptism" I assume you to mean "Covenant Baptism" or "Believers and their household baptism" --> oikobaptism.

    I believe in credo-baptism but not credo-only-baptism, and I believe in covenant baptism e.g. oikobaptism.
     
  9. hammondjones

    hammondjones Puritan Board Sophomore

    Raised credo (but born into Cumberland PC). Main thing that pushed me towards household baptism was being convinced of the underlying continuity of the testaments, reading the WCF with understanding, Colossians 2, and the cogent writings of certain members here.
     
  10. sc_q_jayce

    sc_q_jayce Puritan Board Freshman

    What's the difference between "Wrestled with credo-baptism, but settled on paedo-baptism" and "Credo-baptism to paedo-baptism?"
     
  11. Jeri Tanner

    Jeri Tanner Moderator Staff Member

    Interestingly enough, I eventually changed to paedobaptism via my interest in the singing of the church, which had led to the full EP acapella position. The instruments issue caused me to see how the abrogation of the ceremonial was accomplished in Christ, which then led me gradually to a different (better!) view of covenant theology. My life-long view on baptism fell like a house of cards when I understood that baptism is based on God’s acting and speaking, not on a profession of faith from the creature. I wasn’t even looking to change from the Reformed Baptist view, I was rather flabbergasted and thrilled at God.
     
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  12. Goodcheer68

    Goodcheer68 Puritan Board Freshman

    I think the one is a paedo Baptist who had some second thoughts but eventually settled on paedo baptism.
     
  13. kainos01

    kainos01 Puritan Board Senior

    Some interesting contributions from an earlier, similar thread.
     
  14. Tom Hart

    Tom Hart Puritan Board Junior

    Sorry, poorly worded again. I meant "Paedo-baptism to begin with, wrestled with credo-baptism, but settled on paedo-baptism".
     
  15. Kinghezy

    Kinghezy Puritan Board Freshman

    Evangelical'ish, and so by default believer's baptism. Started listening to a reformed podcast from a friend. Starting listening and reading more. Heidelblog/heidelcast was helping in showing the conflation between Abraham and Moses. Scripture passages seemed a lot more clearer with that lense, plus realizing how much more learned the Westminster divines were than me in scripture and education in general, eventually I took the plunge... scratch that... sprinkle (though my pastor is quite liberal with his sprinkling).
     
  16. OPC'n

    OPC'n Puritan Board Doctor

    I was converted to paedobaptism because it just made so much more sense. Of course, it might have been easier for me than credobaptists because I didn't really know why people got baptized except that it happened once you said you were a Christian. No one I knew really had a good answer as to why people got baptized after "accepting Jesus" as their Savior. I learned about baptism when I joined the OPC.
     
  17. Edm

    Edm Puritan Board Freshman

    Baptized as an episcopalian infant. In college attended Baptist churches and questioned if I needed to be submerged. Kept attending Baptist churches because my wife was Baptist. We moved to a PCA church and I really started reading and learning. I'm confident in my baptism now. Actually now due to my locale attend a Baptist church again, however, they know my views on Baptism and I'm still Baptized ( even if they dont believe me..)
     
  18. Claudiu

    Claudiu Puritan Board Junior

    I voted "Currently credo-baptist struggling with paedo-baptism."

    I am currently studying the issue with my wife. We are approaching the matter rather seriously as it has direct implications in our personal and ecclesial life. We see the paedo position, but are still wrestling through certain texts and other preconceived notions we have.
     
  19. Ryan&Amber2013

    Ryan&Amber2013 Puritan Board Junior

    Be encouraged brother. Look which one got the most votes so far ;)
     
  20. Knecht Christi

    Knecht Christi Puritan Board Freshman

    I spent my whole life as a credo, and came to the paedo position about 6 months ago (though I wrestled with it for the previous 2 years). The thing that really influenced my thinking was realizing that I was assuming credo (assuming children were excluded from the covenant) and demanding an explicit command for infants to be baptized. When I realized this was an assumption that must be examined and defended, and one that in fact contradicted the reformed hermeneutic I was growing into with Covenant Theology, the wheels really began to turn. I found Jeri's answer so interesting, as EP actually had a huge impact on me coming to paedo as well through seeing how the ceremonial law was fulfilled and applying that then to circumcision.
     
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  21. SeanPatrickCornell

    SeanPatrickCornell Puritan Board Freshman

    Started as an unbeliever who was aware of Romish baptismal regeneration style infant baptism and general evangelical style credobaptism.

    Got saved as an adult, studied Reformed Theology. Became convinced of the Doctrines of Grace. Studied Covenant Infant / Household Baptism and very nearly drank the Kool-Aid until I began actually studying Reformed Baptist Covenant Theology (specifically 1689 Federalism).
     
  22. kainos01

    kainos01 Puritan Board Senior

    Pity we can't click to see who responded to each option. Then, we would know who still needs a lot of work and who just needs a bit of gentle prodding... ;)
     
  23. earl40

    earl40 Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    BINGO in that to hold to credo basically makes baptism and the Lord's Supper equivalent sacraments in practice.
     
  24. Ben Zartman

    Ben Zartman Puritan Board Sophomore

    I have always been a credobaptist, and the debates here have been fruitful not only to make me inquire more diligently into the matter, but to see more clearly the glory of real Covenant Baptism.
     
  25. PuritanCovenanter

    PuritanCovenanter Moderator Staff Member

  26. Howard the Reformer

    Howard the Reformer Puritan Board Freshman

    Recently had issues with "Presbyterian Reformed" churches in my area and spent nearly two years looking for a solid church to attend. Attended, for about 6 months, a SBC church with an outstanding pastor who was very solid on most Reformed issues (the pastor was an unashamed Calvinist). Spoke with the elders (yes in a SBC church) and was informed that my baptism as an infant was not sufficient to join their church and would I need to have a "Biblical" baptism. I struggled a bit due to my conviction that I needed to be a member of a local church but the baptism issue stopped me from moving forward. I was not trying to change their view but was only trying to get them to appreciate my reasoning. I reached the decision that I would respect their view on baptism but it was a hurdle that I could not leap over. Now visiting a small ARP work and driving a good distance but being a paedo-baptist by my many years of learning I am comfortable with my convictions and my decision.
     
  27. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Professor

    Would you have joined the Baptist Church if accepted your infant baptism?
     
  28. Howard the Reformer

    Howard the Reformer Puritan Board Freshman

    I have asked myself that question and the answer is probably yes. My wife was raised a Baptist and she understands and appreciates both paedo and credo baptism. While I am convicted of paedo baptism I must confess that the method of baptism does not preclude anyone from entering the Kingdom of God. I remain faithful to the WCF and Presbyterian doctrines, and of course no one can bind anyone's conscience, so to be active in a local church sometimes we have to examine what is more important. If being able to worship God with a local group of believers means, and speaking for myself, being a part of a church that I do not agree with every element then I believe being a part of and worshipping with a group of God's children is more important than my disagreements. However God saw fit to lead us where we can "fit" in more closely with what we believe.
     
  29. De Jager

    De Jager Puritan Board Freshman

    Started as a credo-baptist who thought that reformed people stupidly couldn't understand that babies can't believe, therefore shouldn't be baptized.

    Started questioning everything around 4 years ago, realizing that the objections that kept coming up to the reformed view were not logically consistent. Discovered that reformed people were able to give answers that satisfied. Saw that the reformed view is consistent with the pattern of scripture.

    I began to understand that both before Christ and after Christ, God's visible people is a mixed bag of true and false believers. I also began to see that it was always God's intent to have a people that were not merely outwardly his, but inwardly his. This became apparent throughout the scriptures. I began to see that faith was always the criteria to be a true child of God, and that God always calls people to true faith from a visible people. I understood that Israel was not a side project God was working on, but the true visible Church, albeit constrained somewhat geographically and ethnically. I realized that foreigners could join the OT church too, meaning it wasn't just a Jewish thing. I recognized circumcision as an entrance rite into the church. I recognized baptism as an entrance rite into the church. I am not convinced why baptism should be applied differently than circumcision, so I am a household baptist. The household baptisms in the NT for me just became corroborating evidence, confirming what I would expect to find based on the pattern of scripture.
     
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  30. Nomos

    Nomos Puritan Board Freshman

    On what basis could they do that?
     

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