"At age nineteen, while in college, Driscoll had a life-changing experience reading the book of Romans in the Bible and he became a Christian. Shortly thereafter, God spoke audibly to him while at a men’s retreat for a church, telling him to marry Grace (his girlfriend since age seventeen), preach the Bible, train men, and plant churches. And that’s precisely what he’s been doing ever since."
Have you ever experienced what Mark Driscoll experienced?
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The above quote was found at http://assets.marshillchurch.org/files/misc/pages/pastor_mark_driscolls_biography.pdf
Whitefield
Puritan Board Junior
didn't happen to me
Andres
Puritan Board Doctor
back when I was a hard-core Pentecostal, I thought that I heard God speak to me on a few occasions. Turns out, it was just me thinking up things in my head. I have since repented for ascribing those wayward thoughts to our Father and I now am completely content knowing God speaks to me through the Scriptures.
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Maybe once, in hunting camp long ago. It was probably 5 AM and I distinctly heard a deep voice say, "Arise, Kill, and Eat."
But then again, it might have been the Baptist pastor in the next tent.
But then again, it might have been the Baptist pastor in the next tent.
Does audibly in this case mean that one could have captured it on a tape recorder? Or does it mean a voice is one's head, similar to when one is leaving the house and a "voice" says, "You are forgetting something."? If it's the latter, I don't find it strange or crazy at all. If the former, that's something else altogether.
Same here, Mary. I hear voices all the time like that. . . . I just avoid telling people about them. Usually it has the distinct tone of my (now departed) Dad, and it usually says something like, "Quit yer slackin'" or "easy on that tool before you break something."
Fly Caster
Puritan Board Sophomore
Or is it something more akin to claiming a special calling that other poor saps who haven't heard God's audible voice cannot claim?
These kind of claims worry and irritate me. For one thing it sets a poor example for other young men considering the ministry-- putting greater worth on a supposed audible call than serious reflection and study.
timmopussycat
Puritan Board Junior
There are plenty of documented events that happend to folk that are similar to what you describe. But what makes those events "charismatic" or "non-charismatic" is not the events themselves, but the theological understanding by which those involved interpret what has happened i.e. whether the subject of the event possesses a "charismatic" power for use on call, or whether God has done something extraordinary either to or through them.
See Ian Murray, D. Martyn Lloyd Jones: The First Forty Years pp. 257-59 for an example of someone sitting on the bus minding their own business and having something odd happen which could have been understood as a "charismatic" event. Let me make it clear that those involved did not interpret what happened through the lens of charismatic teaching but rather as God doing something extraordinary.
moral necessity
Puritan Board Junior
It's these kinds of things that make me cautious regarding people like this. I don't think it wise to put something like that in one's bio, even if it is legit. Paul spoke of his experience, but it was to defend his apostleship and support the gospel as being genuine. What does knowing this about him accomplish, besides making others feel inferior who do not have similar experiences? It doesn't make me think his ministry any more legit. I'd give far more credence to one having their heart heavily inclined towards the ministry and a collective body of elders and laymen affirming that call.
Just my thoughts on the topic...
Just my thoughts on the topic...
Notthemama1984
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
I am sure that many would have preferred that Paul been chosen in the upper room by the rest of the apostles, but God in His sovereign will chose otherwise. The same could be said with Mark.
I would also point out that the article doesn't say that a church body never affirmed his call. It is silent on the issue.
The writer of Hebrews states that in these last days, God has spoken to His Son (1:2) and the Apostle John states that it is "I, Jesus have sent my angel to testify to these things then follows a few verses later with a stern warning against adding to these words (Rev. 22). It is for these reasons, among others, that I not only think that audible words with general life experiences are unlikely, but they can hinder faith potentially leading people to seek something other than the great hope of the gospel. I have heard many young Christians despair that they have not had these kinds of experiences -- and spend endless hours discussing and seeking these experiences rather than carefully attending to the teaching of the scriptures. God has given us his word in Jesus, has carefully overseen its inscription and transmission down through the ages, and enlightens it via the Holy Spirit.
AThornquist
Puritan Board Doctor
I have no problem with someone saying that they believe God spoke to them, or they were strongly under the impression that God did so, but rarely (if ever) should such a claim bear any authority in the lives of others. For example, a pastor of mine back home had a similar experience to Driscoll, except he was a cowboy in the middle of Wyoming when he believes the Lord told Him to leave his love of cowboying and to become a pastor. This pastor is a cessationist and a godly man, and he has told me that he would never use that experience to dictate the opinions or actions of others; however, since he could only conclude that it was the Lord directing him, he chose to obey. I think these things really happen, but again with a subjective experience these happenings must not be claimed to "definitely" be from God and therefore be directive in the lives of people other than the one who had the experience. Also, they aren't normative. These ought not weaken the faith of brothers who don't have such an experience; it is irregular and unrelated to the Christian's firm standing with the Father through Christ, and we have access through prayer that is affective and powerful, and this means of communication and transformation is normal for us.
Jeffriesw
Puritan Board Freshman
No I have not.
Christopher88
Puritan Board Sophomore
This is one area in which I can't debate but do not take a solid stance on. Many reformers and Christians in general deny charismatic gifts/encounters. Yet the argument against it is rather vague with scripture proof. No where does scripture say all these things which were of the Apostles time will cease in the later. No where in scripture does it say that.
Now I'm not saying that view is wrong, but I don't think I can say its right either.
I'm interested in this view, and why it splits even reformed circles.
Now I'm not saying that view is wrong, but I don't think I can say its right either.
I'm interested in this view, and why it splits even reformed circles.
he beholds
Puritan Board Doctor
My guess would be that God, knowing our separate personalities, allows some of us to feel like we've heard him, if that's what we need in order to actually hear him. I cringe a little when people talk of God speaking to them, but I think that really what's happening to them is the same as what happens to me when I weigh and make a decision. And sometimes, like in the Driscoll case, "inspiration" will strike or a thought that I wasn't weighing will suddenly pop up and seem like a good choice, too. I just don't attribute that to God's voice, though I do recognize that his hand was fully in that thought or event occurring.
AThornquist
Puritan Board Doctor
I actually wasn't very accurate when I said that "I have no problem" with someone saying things like this. Generally, I also cringe (and don't believe it). However, depending on the person who says they heard God speak, I'm not troubled by it. I mentioned the pastor back home--I believe him whole-heartedly because I know how he handles the Word of God and how he would never even bring up the situation if he wasn't quite convinced it was of God. That's what I meant to say, though I was unclear: I have no problem with certain people saying they heard the voice of God.
Andres
Puritan Board Doctor
The definition I find for audible reads, "capable of being heard; loud enough to be heard; actually heard". This lends to the former of your examples being the case. However...I would contend that even if Driscoll (or anyone) would attempt to argue the latter, that it is still a most egregious claim. The reason being is that the quote said, "God spoke audibly to him [Driscoll]..." Even if we rationalize that it was merely an "inner voice" or personal thoughts inside his head, the fact of the matter is that Driscoll is still attributing those thoughts directly to the Almighty. This is a huge problem because it takes away from the authority of Scripture and it makes God subjective. If God speaks to each of us personally, how can we ever say if what He says is true or not?
AThornquist
Puritan Board Doctor
God spoke to people in the past, and they apparently didn't have that issue.
Andres
Puritan Board Doctor
I respectfully disagree. While there may not be an explicit verse that says, "There will no longer be special revelation or tongues or prophecy after the Apostolic age", if one understands what the purpose of these gifts were - to confirm the authority of the Apostles and to establish the church - then one can effectively conclude that these gifts are no longer in place. Also, we have the God's complete revelation to us in the canon of Scripture. The early church did not have this complete canon and therefore gifts were necessary.
Lastly, I'm curious to know how each of you who defend men hearing from God via personal revelation reconcile this belief with our confession which states,
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