Help with a theological term in the Gallic Confession

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Laura

Puritan Board Junior
I'm trying to translate the Gallic/Gallican/French/La Rochelle (they should consolidate the names) confession into Spanish, partly for fun and partly because after much Googling I can't find any Spanish translations, and I'm sad it has no online presence in 2010. I'm doing a very unscholarly thing in working primarily from the English translation, though. Right now I'm stumbling on the archaic sense of the word "virtue" as applied to the Holy Spirit in Article VI (the French is vertu):

"The Father, first cause, principle, and origin of all things. The Son, his Word and eternal wisdom. The Holy Spirit, his virtue, power, and efficacy."

I think I found a good definition (marked archaic) in one dictionary: "an effective, active, or inherent power or force." My question is, how would this be distinguished from "power" AND from "efficacy?" Surely Calvin and De Chandieu were not just being redundant? In the parallel-ish section of the Belgic confession, the attributes listed are merely "eternal Power and Might, proceeding from the Father and Son." I'd appreciate any suggestions.
 
Hola Laura,


How about this:

1. f. Actividad o fuerza de las cosas para producir o causar sus efectos.

2. f. Eficacia de una cosa para conservar o restablecer la salud corporal.

3. f. Fuerza, vigor o valor.

4. f. Poder o potestad de obrar.

5. f. Integridad de ánimo y bondad de vida.

6. f. Disposición constante del alma para las acciones conformes a la ley moral.

7. f. Acción virtuosa o recto modo de proceder.

8. f. pl. Rel. Espíritus bienaventurados, cuyo nombre indica fuerza viril e indomable para cumplir las operaciones divinas. Forman el quinto coro.

~ cardinal.
1. f. Rel. Cada una de las cuatro, prudencia, justicia, fortaleza y templanza, que son principio de otras en ellas contenidas.

~ moral.
1. f. Hábito de obrar bien, independientemente de los preceptos de la ley, por sola la bondad de la operación y conformidad con la razón natural.

~ teologal.
1. f. Rel. Cada una de las tres, fe, esperanza y caridad, cuyo objeto directo es Dios.

en ~.
1. loc. adv. En fuerza, a consecuencia o por resultado de.


Diccionario de la lengua española - Vigésima segunda edición
 
Laura, is it possible that even in it's archaic meaning the nuance of difference between virtue and power is that virtue has a shade of good associated with it? I remember reading once where a question was asked about one of the gods "what are his virtues?" and the context seemed clear that they were powers that at least were perceived to have been beneficial.
 
No se me ocurrió buscar nada en la DRAE, gracias. :) Now that I look up "fuerza," which was my first instinct, it has this definition: "Virtud y eficacia natural que las cosas tienen en sí." Perfect. I still don't really understand the differences cause I'm no philosopher, but that will work.
 
This is a helpful resource for working with middle French.

Concerning vertu:

C. -[Dans l'ordre surnaturel]

1."Puissance divine"

2."Pouvoir surnaturel"

3.Au plur. RELIG.

So, "divine might," or "supernatural power" might be appropriate English translations.

The 1561 Belgic Confession had: "Le S. Esprit la vertu et puissance eternelle procedante du Pere, et du Fils."

The Latin edition of 1620 had "Spiritus Sanctus virtus et potentia aeterna..."

The CanRC edition has "The Holy Spirit is the eternal power and might..."

Hope that helps.
 
Perhaps, TimV. That wouldn't be surprising.

This is a helpful resource for working with middle French.

Concerning vertu:

C. -[Dans l'ordre surnaturel]

1."Puissance divine"

2."Pouvoir surnaturel"

3.Au plur. RELIG.

So, "divine might," or "supernatural power" might be appropriate English translations.

The 1561 Belgic Confession had: "Le S. Esprit la vertu et puissance eternelle procedante du Pere, et du Fils."

The Latin edition of 1620 had "Spiritus Sanctus virtus et potentia aeterna..."

The CanRC edition has "The Holy Spirit is the eternal power and might..."

Hope that helps.

Thank you very much for looking those up; that does help. I am following along with the Belgic (in English and Spanish) because of its similarity in language, but I didn't think to look at the French there.
 
Since this thread is still open, I'll piggyback on it with another question. Just using what French I have plus the dictionary, I can tell that the English translation I'm reading from (in Schaff's Creeds of Christendom) can be "free" at times, and it seems to be so here; but I don't know what to do, because translated literally it is kind of odd. This is from Article VIII of the Gallic Confession.

Et ainsi en confessant que rien ne se fait sans la providence de Dieu, nous adorons en humilité les secrets qui nous sont cachés, sans nous enquérir par'dessus notre mesure...

We adore/worship the secrets hidden to us? The English translation tries to work with it by saying

...we humbly bow before the secrets which are hidden to us...

But there's no such preposition in the French, (not even included in the definition of adorer according to the dictionaries), to give this sense of bowing "before" the secrets. Should I translate it "word for word" into Spanish, or use the sort of rephrasing the English translator seems to have done?
 
Gil, I know that would be the Spanish translation---I guess I'm just wondering what's with the "adoring of secrets." I want to make sure there's not some nuance in "adorer" that I'm not seeing, because as written it seems a little strange, and obviously the English translator for some reason opted to translate it loosely (bowing before the secrets). Thanks!
 
"Adoramos en humildad los misterios que nos son escondidos" seems pretty intelligible to me.
 
Okay, I guess I'll just go with the flow. :) Forgive the flamboyant off-topic-ness, but Ruben, could you say hi to Heidi for me? I'm not sure if she ever got my letter a couple weeks ago; maybe my handwriting finally thwarted the poor postman.
 
"Adore" sometimes has almost the force of "admire": it's opposed to inquiring or searching out. Instead of prying into what doesn't concern us, we reverently admire what we have only been given a glimpse of - enough to know it's there, but not enough to figure it out.

She did get a letter from you a little while ago at the new place: it was the same day I posted one from her to you, written independently.
 
"Adore" sometimes has almost the force of "admire": it's opposed to inquiring or searching out. Instead of prying into what doesn't concern us, we reverently admire what we have only been given a glimpse of - enough to know it's there, but not enough to figure it out.
Yes, that makes sense.

She did get a letter from you a little while ago at the new place: it was the same day I posted one from her to you, written independently.
Okay, good. Yes, I got the postcards.
 
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