Aaron637
Puritan Board Freshman
Hi all,
Ive been debating with a Catholic over the past few weeks and ive learnt some more things about Catholicism. What has stood out to me though is the lack of doctrinal clarity of the church Fathers. How did they go so wrong so quickly - 300-400 years of truth then darkness. It seems though that even the first fathers believed things that seem strange to protestants like me.
Im far from informed on the subject. Ive read some of the fathers and also am reading R A Wylie on catholicism and the history of protestantism. I know catholic theology well enough to argue against it. But the best rebuttal my friend gave is the appeal to the fathers. Saying the disciples of the disciples should know and teach what the apostles taught. I realize this has been discussed before - but i raise it again so that i can ask questions.
I don't know - you would think the primitive church would last at least a few generations. Is there a place to go that sums up systematically what the fathers taught with quotes (in context). I prefer to read original source documents but a guide would help. I do think it sucks that sola fide was developed clearly only in the reformation. Pre that it seems only Paul taught it in Romans.
I just think it sucks the truth has been maligned so much (especially during the dark ages). That anyone comes to true faith in this medley of confusion is a miraculous work of grace.
Its like there is no point in arguing with catholics - but for gods grace they are swallowed up in catholic dogma. To me from a secular mindset catholicism makes sense (due to claims of the fathers). While my experience of God and his Spirit gives me confidence in the protestant understanding of the gospel. Its just a hard situation.
Most protestants dont even know what the RCC teaches nor cares. But i do wonder. I do ask. "What if i was born a Catholic?...how would i know truth?". Would i be damned? I conclude yes due to the distortion of the gospel in the RCC. Others refuse to make the distinction. At this point my head starts spinning and i feel like descending into full blown skepticism (but for my experiences with God i probably would). The path is truley hard and narrow. So many truth claims by various sects in Christianity. "What is truth?" As pilot said. Considering your doctrine will save or damn you it kind of matters. Jesus is that truth but there are so many versions. But for my relationship with him how can anyone be sure? So many truth claims seem to be so weak and poorly founded. Both catholics and protestantism can use really bad logic and references when arguing. That said where is the best resource for information on catholics (that catholics would read and readily agree that it doesn't misrepresent their position).
I guess my main inquiry is an impartial summary of the fathers. Also why are they wrong (when they deviate from protestant belief)?
On my phone - please excuse spelling or typos
Ive been debating with a Catholic over the past few weeks and ive learnt some more things about Catholicism. What has stood out to me though is the lack of doctrinal clarity of the church Fathers. How did they go so wrong so quickly - 300-400 years of truth then darkness. It seems though that even the first fathers believed things that seem strange to protestants like me.
Im far from informed on the subject. Ive read some of the fathers and also am reading R A Wylie on catholicism and the history of protestantism. I know catholic theology well enough to argue against it. But the best rebuttal my friend gave is the appeal to the fathers. Saying the disciples of the disciples should know and teach what the apostles taught. I realize this has been discussed before - but i raise it again so that i can ask questions.
I don't know - you would think the primitive church would last at least a few generations. Is there a place to go that sums up systematically what the fathers taught with quotes (in context). I prefer to read original source documents but a guide would help. I do think it sucks that sola fide was developed clearly only in the reformation. Pre that it seems only Paul taught it in Romans.
I just think it sucks the truth has been maligned so much (especially during the dark ages). That anyone comes to true faith in this medley of confusion is a miraculous work of grace.
Its like there is no point in arguing with catholics - but for gods grace they are swallowed up in catholic dogma. To me from a secular mindset catholicism makes sense (due to claims of the fathers). While my experience of God and his Spirit gives me confidence in the protestant understanding of the gospel. Its just a hard situation.
Most protestants dont even know what the RCC teaches nor cares. But i do wonder. I do ask. "What if i was born a Catholic?...how would i know truth?". Would i be damned? I conclude yes due to the distortion of the gospel in the RCC. Others refuse to make the distinction. At this point my head starts spinning and i feel like descending into full blown skepticism (but for my experiences with God i probably would). The path is truley hard and narrow. So many truth claims by various sects in Christianity. "What is truth?" As pilot said. Considering your doctrine will save or damn you it kind of matters. Jesus is that truth but there are so many versions. But for my relationship with him how can anyone be sure? So many truth claims seem to be so weak and poorly founded. Both catholics and protestantism can use really bad logic and references when arguing. That said where is the best resource for information on catholics (that catholics would read and readily agree that it doesn't misrepresent their position).
I guess my main inquiry is an impartial summary of the fathers. Also why are they wrong (when they deviate from protestant belief)?
On my phone - please excuse spelling or typos