How do most postmills interpret the 70 weeks of Daniel?

Discussion in 'Revelation & Eschatology' started by Doulos McKenzie, May 9, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Doulos McKenzie

    Doulos McKenzie Puritan Board Freshman

    I was wondering because I was listening to Jeff from Apologia Church talk about why eschatology matters and he made the comment that the first half of the last week was Jesus ministry then once Jesus was "cut off" the second half of the last week was the Apostles ministry to the Jews.
     
  2. Doulos McKenzie

    Doulos McKenzie Puritan Board Freshman

    bump
     
  3. Contra_Mundum

    Contra_Mundum Pilgrim, Alien, Stranger Staff Member

    It may be your question that is off-putting.

    You have asked PB members to generalize, "How do most Xs...," when hardly anyone could be expected to know much more than their own view, and possibly the views of most folk in their own church (where agreement is often assumed, or gathered from a small sampling).

    Your question may be interpreted as asking exclusively the postmils of the PB what they think; or interpreted as inquiring what anyone more informed particularly of those beliefs of the postmils thinks is true respecting your question.

    How many self-identified postmils there may be on the PB, and of them: who feels qualified to answer, will have some effect (I think) on how much feedback you receive.

    For myself, I self-identify as an amillennialist; I would be hesitant, or at least cautious, to speak for "most" of those of similar affiliation; let alone for "most postmils."
     
  4. arapahoepark

    arapahoepark Puritan Board Senior

    It is generally thought that Jesus was cut off in the middle of the week and would bring an end to sacrifice and offering. First time learning of the Apostles' view however. But by and large the 70 weeks are over. However, I do think the latter half of the week referred to the tribulation and Jewish wars as per I think, Gentry.
     
  5. MW

    MW Puritan Board Doctor

    John Brown of Haddington in loc.: "That these verses relate to the manifestation of Jesus Christ to fulfil all righteousness, and make full atonement for the sins of his people, to fulfil all the ancient types and prophecies, and to receive the Holy Ghost above measure himself, and miraculously pour him out upon his followers, for the restraining of iniquity, and the introduction of remarkable holiness into the world, among both Jews and Gentiles, is generally agreed. That each of the weeks mentioned denotes seven years, a day for a year (Ezek. 4:6), and that the whole of the numbers is intended to point out the time of our Saviour's appearance, is also agreed. In applying the weeks there has been great difference among calculators: but it is enough that they must all fix the conclusion of the weeks near the time of our Saviour's death. From Ezra's commission, by Artaxerxes Longimanus, in the 7th year of his reign, to restore the affairs of the Jewish church and state, to the death of Christ, is precisely 70 weeks, or 490 years. From Nehemiah's commission to rebuild the wall of Jerusalem, in the 20th year of Artaxerxes, to the death of Christ, is 490 lunar years, and a little more; or perhaps precisely 490 to the rejection of the Jews, and calling of the Gentiles. From Ezra's commission to Nehemiah's finishing his reformation might be precisely seven weeks, or 49 years; thence to John Baptist's manifestation (by his ministry) of Christ as come, 62 weeks, or 434 years; thence to Christ's death another week, or seven years; — 490 in all. Perhaps, too, from Julius Caesar's edict, for the Jews to repair and fortify their cities, to Christ's birth, might be precisely 49 years; and as much from Herod's building of the inner temple to Christ's baptism; and as much from his finishing the outer temple to Christ's death.

    In the last week (ver. 27), the covenant was confirmed with many, and the daily sacrifice abolished, either by Christ's ministrations, and the conversion of multitudes to him by the covenant of grace, and by his rendering useless all the typical sacrifices by his death; or near forty years afterward, when Titus made leagues of peace with sundry of the Asiatic nations, that he might have the more leisure to make war against the Jews; by which their temple was destroyed, their civil and ecclesiastical constitution overthrown, and themselves generally murdered or driven from the country; under the dreadful effects of which they have remained for above 1700 years past."
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  6. Contra_Mundum

    Contra_Mundum Pilgrim, Alien, Stranger Staff Member

    So pleased when finding an earlier author who expresses at least the possibility or interpretive option on some point (even if not preferring the same options all at once). Brown's reference to Titus' unsparing demolition of the national people after a grace-reprieve of one 40yr generation, for fulfilling the final 1/2 seven, has been my fixed conclusion for some time.
     
  7. Andrew P.C.

    Andrew P.C. Puritan Board Junior

    I think in particular you are asking for a "postmil" view with a preterist/theonomic context. Rev. Winzer has provided a "classic" postmil approach to the text.
     
  8. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Senior

    Just curious if postmill would be held as a position by that many reformed?
     
  9. Doulos McKenzie

    Doulos McKenzie Puritan Board Freshman

    It was the majority position of the Puritans.
     
  10. Jerusalem Blade

    Jerusalem Blade Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    Eschatology is perhaps the one doctrine that was not settled in the early church, nor by the Reformation divines, and is still being sorted out and refined.
     
  11. Pergamum

    Pergamum Ordinary Guy (TM)

    If we agree with John Brown, does this mean John the Baptist started his ministry 3 1/2 years prior to Christ's baptism?
     
  12. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Senior

    Didn't the Reformers by and large focus most of their efforts towards getting the real and true Gospel back into the Church itself? So they just assumed over the views held by Church of Rome on this area?
     
  13. Jerusalem Blade

    Jerusalem Blade Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    Hello David,

    You said, "Didn't the Reformers by and large focus most of their efforts towards getting the real and true Gospel back into the Church itself?" I would answer yes.

    The second sentence I'm not sure what you are saying.
     
  14. KGP

    KGP Puritan Board Freshman

    In his second sentence I believe David is questioning whether the majority view of the Puritans was Postmillenial by default so to speak, as they inherited it from Rome and spent their theological energies on recovering the gospel rather than discerning biblical eschatology.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  15. Jerusalem Blade

    Jerusalem Blade Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    Thanks, Kaleb. So, David, if Kaleb is right in his understanding, I would ask you this question: where do you get that Rome was postmil? I always thought they held to a vague amillennialism.
     
  16. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Senior

    They do, as they see the church as the Kingdom of God, and most reformers were pretty much A Mil. correct?
     
  17. arapahoepark

    arapahoepark Puritan Board Senior

    While the Reformers did not exhaustively touch on everything, they still used Scripture to back up their ideas. That is why they rejected so much of the Romanists views. The idea that amilliennialism is a hold over because they were lazy is silly. Anabaptists at the time were like today's red letter Christians, with some Marconite tendencies mixed in, and staunchly millennial. The reformers fought against their errors as well.
    In what world is the church not a part of the kingdom? I appreciate your desire to learn more but, I ask that you evaluate your presuppositions regarding Israel and the church. As a former dispensationalist I understand it can be hard but, I have realized that so much has to be read into the texts to get the idea that church and Israel are seperate.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2017
  18. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Senior

     
  19. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Senior

    I am still working to get there, as at first was full on Scofield lite, saw it as saved by the Law and now under Grace, but now do see one people pf God, as saved by Grace alone faith alone regardless which time era salvation is under, but still do see God still in some fashion dealing with the Jews in the sense of saving out from israel a remnant in each generation, and not dealing with them no longer at all, as Pretierists seem to be saying after AD 70...
     
  20. Doulos McKenzie

    Doulos McKenzie Puritan Board Freshman

    You have just described yourself as a Progressive Dispensationalist. Your view is not Reformed.
     
  21. Dachaser

    Dachaser Puritan Board Senior

    This is why see myself as still a work in progress, as still trying to sort out the major difference between between being a reformed or a calvinist Baptist!
     
  22. Doulos McKenzie

    Doulos McKenzie Puritan Board Freshman

    But then why do you claim to hold to the 1689 and claim to be a Reformed Baptist if in fact you don't actual agree with the historic Reformed understanding of these subjects?
     
  23. KGP

    KGP Puritan Board Freshman

    Because you can be a reformed Baptist and believe that toward the end of this age, many of ethnic Israel will benefit from God's saving grace through the renewal of the Holy Spirit; which I believe is all Dachaser was suggesting.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  24. arapahoepark

    arapahoepark Puritan Board Senior

    I think David has sufficiently clarified views. He is now sounding more like a postmill on ethnic Israel!
     
  25. KMK

    KMK Moderator Staff Member

    I think this thread has run its course. Thanks for all who participated. It was intersting.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page