How do we evangelize the reprobate mind in light of our Leadership? Virtue Signaling?

Discussion in 'Evangelism, Missions and the Persecuted Church' started by PuritanCovenanter, Nov 6, 2019.

  1. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    Progressives make up at least as significant a minority as conservatives; maybe more. I'd say confessionalists, but that I fear that may be a small subset of the conservatives.
  2. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore

  3. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore

    What are liberals and conservatives in this context? Is this politics? Please further define these terms. How do liberals and conservatives hold to their confessions?
  4. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore

    I guess my overall question is unless a certain pastor is deemed unfit and similar responsive actions how is the inevitable taken from the pastor’s tweet not realized? (There’s a huge opening & to my knowledge it hasn’t been closed)

    • All the PCA’s homosexual pastors and elders now have a seat at the table
    • Those opposed to homosexuality are old and getting older
    • Already this year, forty percent of the assembly commissioners opposed the Nashville Statement
    • The study committee just approved will write a report which will supercede the Nashville Statement
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
  5. NaphtaliPress

    NaphtaliPress Administrator Staff Member

    I'm not using liberal, but progressive, which comes from the debate over terms the president of CTS used to define the groups in the PCA and TE Rick Phillips response. The latter prefers confessionalist over traditionalist for the conservative group but I frankly see conservative as more appropriate as the very author has a big stained glass depiction of Christ front and center in the church he pastors. So I don't know what confessionalist means in the PCA. See
    • Like Like x 1
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  6. wcf_linux

    wcf_linux Puritan Board Freshman

    The problem with "virtue signalling" as a term is, in my eyes, twofold. First is that it makes a claim about someone's intent, that a statement or action is not about the claimed principle but is instead a act of social positioning. Sometimes people wear their intent on their sleeve. Sometimes it seems blatant that someone is being disingenuous. But most of the time imputing intent risks breaking the 9th commandment. It's completely true that people virtue signal, and it's good to examine yourself to see if you are just posturing. We can't see into someone's mind to know if they are engaged in empty signalling or are being sincere.

    The second problem is that like so many popular-on-the-internet terms, its potential usefulness gets undermined by how easy it is to use it as a stick for beating one's opponents. :deadhorse: Not saying that anyone in this thread is doing that, but that is why so many uses of the term are hard to square with a proper definition of it.

    As for the list, I was really disappointed at a couple of familiar names on it. I hope last G.A.'s burst of trying to shut down speeches with... strained... claims that the speaker was being intemperate doesn't become the norm. That would just inflame discussion further and make it even harder to unite around the truth. That's why I was so encouraged when that one TE on the last morning spoke up and tried to get the protest overturned.
  7. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore

    Good points, my other concern is that it feels like liberal progressive terminology. Maybe I’m not educated enough but both the term and definitely the tactics you mention are liberal progressive in nature and practice, especially in the political realm. Maybe I do engage in a much milder form of the aforementioned (I never thought of it as VS) on my very limited, non-official platform, but I try to join other much more established and probably more polite voices calling us back to the confessions and church founders. I guess these developments are taking concerned outsiders by surprise. We expect these things in some quarters of Christianity but definitely not others. It feels like a lot of this is really getting ramped up.
  8. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore

    Yeah, it just doesn’t seem like a helpful and appropriate/applicable term.

    “The term was popularised by James Bartholomew in an article in The Spectator on 18 April 2015 to mean "public, empty gestures intended to convey socially approved attitudes without any associated risk or sacrifice".

    I invented ‘virtue signalling’. Now it’s taking over the world
    I invented the term ‘virtue signalling’ in The Spectator. Now it seems to be taking over the world...

    My first instinct is to run
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019
  9. wcf_linux

    wcf_linux Puritan Board Freshman

    Not a bad instinct. It is kind of ironic the way the term has been adopted by a lot of conservatives in online discussion as a catch-all term for putting down progressives. But for better or worse it comes from the world of academic social theory. One of the less dangerous parts of that world, in my opinion, but still the kind of theorizing that gets used to explain away biblical teaching. Doesn't mean there aren't good uses for it in some cases, but handle with care. (Or run. It's a matter of prudence either way. :))
  10. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore

    I think confessionalists and progressive-confessionals both ‘virtue signal’ in different ways. I’d rather just refer to it as espousing, but everything is politicized and culturalized, thus this type of lingo.

    Today’s progressives are modern adherents of the social gospel, and they always seek to add .... inclusive diversity laws in the areas of race, gender, sexuality, etc,

    The confessionalists merely seek to conserve and preserve. They aren’t looking to add anything. They would prefer existing confessions stand and speak for themselves.

    When progressives virtue signal it is always in defense of a so-called minority class or group, while the confessionalists virtue signal in their proud promotion of long held views of the individual and humanity as unified in their depravity.

    One is very complicated while the other, maybe a bit simplistic, attempts to let the word and confessions speak without over- and/or faux applications.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2019
  11. CovenantWord

    CovenantWord Puritan Board Freshman

    Hypocrisy may be justly condemned, I suggest, by highlighting moral contradiction between a person's statements and his actions. Jesus founds His condemnation of the hypocrisy of the scribes and Pharisees on the observation that "they say, and do not do" (Matt. 23:3 NKJ). Likewise, Paul accuses Peter of hypocrisy, because his selection of dining companions contradicted the Gospel he was preaching (Gal. 2:12-14).
  12. Pergamum

    Pergamum Ordinary Guy (TM)

    A good term is a good term. Richard Dawkins popularized the term "meme" after all, and that is also a very useful term.
  13. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore

    Of course. In addition, I think there’s not as much straight talk being offered. I think the waters become so muddied by jargon, emotions and unorthodox applications (like lgbt lingo) that the only hypocrisy that is clearly established is how far our words, concepts and ideas are drifting from their scriptural and confessional foundations.

    At the end of the day, is God concerned that our carnal needs & desires are addressed or even empathized with? (or wholly replaced by something infinitely greater?) Or is this a later human construct that undervalues the reality of the fallen human condition. Why would we want to embrace any part of our fallen condition outside a desire for deliverance?
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2019
  14. ZackF

    ZackF Puritan Board Graduate

    The virtue signaling(VS) meme speaks to the act signaling more than having virtue. It is the modern, often secular, example of what is described in Matthew 6:2, 5. It requires no character, only the desire to advertise character, to show off. It shouldn't surprise us that VS thrives in shallow, quickly updating social media platforms. Why bother with patient research and careful thought when you can fire off quick VS statements that will gain you currency with a select type of people and maybe ruin somebody to top it off.
  15. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore

    It’s sad times. Even calling out virtue signaling can be a type of virtue signaling. “You can argue for something that happens to make you look virtuous because you genuinely think it is the best solution. That’s the case, for example, with most religious beliefs.”

    I would hope nobody viewed Steven Warhurst’s response as a form of VS. But maybe some did perceive it that way. I thought he spoke with charity, sincerity, consistency and conviction. It’s unfortunate that it was necessary. But these matters aren’t as clear as they once were it seems. I don’t think we necessarily have better insights.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
  16. A.Joseph

    A.Joseph Puritan Board Sophomore

    “Christianity, for example, is filled with pairs of concepts that orthodoxy holds “in tension”: trinity and unity, free will and predestination, grace and works, and so on. Indeed, heresy has been defined as emphasizing one element of one of these pairs at the expense of the other, and throughout Christianity’s history it has been heretical movements of just this sort that have been filled with the fervent zeal of the piety contest. “Tension” might frustrate the reductionist who drives for consistency above all, but irreducible pairs like this serve a prophylactic function in preventing ideologically (and often physically) destructive piety contests.

    Even outside of the religious context, modern Western moral philosophy has tried to transplant the success of science – where reductionism has proven powerful and useful – across the is/ought gap and into the normative realm. Rather than the four cardinal virtues of ancient moral philosophy – prudence, courage, temperance, and justice – we have a number of philosophies competing to reduce everything to a single ur-virtue, such as happiness (utilitarianism), or equality (socialism), or self-love (objectivism), and so on.” - Cameron Harwick, Quillette
  17. Herald

    Herald Administrator Staff Member

    A dear brother called me yesterday and we spoke about his daughter's situation. My brother and his wife raised all his children in a Christian home. Unfortunately, his oldest daughter strayed and wound up marrying a Roman Catholic. The young couple has been consistently attending mass. My brother is asking if I know of any resources for evangelizing Roman Catholics. I recommended that he keep the main thing the main thing. That may seem like a simplistic approach but the Gospel is not meant to be complicated. When the Philippian jailer asked what he should do to be saved, he was told to believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. When Paul wrote to the Ephesians he stated, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." I told him to resist the temptation to change their understanding of papist doctrine as a substitute for declaring the Gospel. I also told him that none of my advice should be interpreted as an unwillingness to address issues that his daughter and son-in-law bring up to deflect from the Gospel.

    So, how does this apply to the OP? The Gospel never changes. The only thing that changes is how it's presented. While we should be concerned about the social justice movement, critical race theory, same-sex marriage, virtue-signaling, et. al, the Gospel still remains the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes. The Gospel's substance never changes.

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