How exactly does man suppress the truth in unrighteousness?

[NicolasD1689]

I have pondered the responsibility of man in light of general revelation. How exactly did man see God's invisible attributes (eternal power and Godhead) in creation and then suppress that?

Most ancients agree there were deities and power that made the world. But how exactly were they to know who to thank or to glorify apart from special revelation?

Just trying to wrap my head around this more clearly. Thank you!

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, both His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the likeness of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
— Romans 1:18-23

 

[MyCrows]

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, both His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

My understanding is that man has enough knowledge through general revelation to know that God has to be above and beyond what has been created, lest he be merely a part of it. If he was a part of creation, he would by definition not be God.

Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the likeness of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

Man then instead chooses to worship God by corrupting Him into a likeness of a created thing, rather than the supreme creator. They worship the creation rather than the creator, by their own choice

 

[NicolasD1689]

Do you think Paul is listing some main ways that humans suppressed the truth that God had given in general revelation, but he isn't listing all the possible options? (Catering more to the audience and their understanding)

I ponder how humans suppress the truth at a young age, or how people with special needs exchange the glory of God for things which are created?

Certainly not all people groups throughout history have held to the fact that their creator was part of creation.

Would love to hear your thoughts about these more pointed examples. Thank you again for your help!

 

[MyCrows]

Acts 17:23-25 also comes to mind,

"For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things"

 

[MyCrows]

Do you think Paul is listing some main ways that humans suppressed the truth that God had given in general revelation, but he isn't listing all the possible options? (Catering more to the audience and their understanding)

I think that all unrighteousness is a suppression of the truth, but that Paul mainly has idolatry in mind.

Also notice how Paul continues in Romans 1:28-32,

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

I was almost tempted to bolden the whole passage, but tried to highlight the parts where we're shown that they know the righteous judgment of God, and continue in sin anyway. They have a conscience, but they suppress it.

They suppress the fact that there is a God, and that they are accountable.

 

[NicolasD1689]

The Romans 1: 26-32 passage seems to be in response to humans not glorifying God and thanking Him.
- vs 26: For this reason God delivered them over to disgraceful passions...
- vs 28: And because they did not think it worthwhile to acknowledge God, God delivered them over to a corrupt mind so that they do what is not right.

Would it be safe to assume that because they suppress the truth, God hands them over to their own wicked desires? Were they committing the list of sins in vs 28-32 before God handed them over?

I know this passage is a mind bender and I'm trying to grasp it more fully. Appreciate the help, brother!

 

[MyCrows]

The Romans 1: 26-32 passage seems to be in response to humans not glorifying God and thanking Him.
- vs 26: For this reason God delivered them over to disgraceful passions...
- vs 28: And because they did not think it worthwhile to acknowledge God, God delivered them over to a corrupt mind so that they do what is not right.

Would it be safe to assume that because they suppress the truth, God hands them over to their own wicked desires? Were they committing the list of sins in vs 28-32 before God handed them over?

I know this passage is a mind bender and I'm trying to grasp it more fully. Appreciate the help, brother!

They don't glorify or thank Him even according to the limited amount of revelation that they do have, through the things that are evident by His power in creation.

I think that is the thrust of what Paul is saying. I would say that they were committing said sins to a degree before being handed over to their sin to an even greater degree.

Psalm 14:1 "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good."

To my understanding, the words, "there is", in our English rendering of Psalm 14:1 verse are not derived directly from the original text, but are rather supplied for an easier reading. What the fool actually does in his heart, is reject the God he knows with his mind exists.

 

[NicolasD1689]

So that begs the question: What God,does our mind know, exists?

General revelation only allows for two general things to be know about God according to Romans 1. His eternal power and His divinity.

A Muslim will acknowledge he believes in one God, that created all things and exists outside of the created order. So he believes in one Divine being with eternal power that is outside of creation. How do we handle that according to general revelation? General revelation doesn't give us the Trinity or the way by what can save man if he does sin.

I agree that most man-made systems of religion have a works-based salvation. Most agree that there is a problem with humans and it needs fixed. If a man-made religion says that the way to be saved is through man's works to be right with God, would that fall under the category of not glorifying God and giving Him thanks? Basically, denying the justice of our God against sin.

Also, how would handle children and special needs people? How do they suppress the truth in unrighteousness and not glorify God or give Him thanks? I know John Piper argues that certain groups of people are with excuse. Say a new-born infant or a child in the womb or those with mental disabilities? They don't physically exchange God for images made with hands. We don't expect infants to thank us for changing their diaper or feeding them.

My minds runs through these passages with so many different questions. I want to be better equipped to explain and answer subjects related to these passages if asked. Thanks again, brother!

 

[MyCrows]

A Muslim will acknowledge he believes in one God, that created all things and exists outside of the created order. So he believes in one Divine being with eternal power that is outside of creation. How do we handle that according to general revelation? General revelation doesn't give us the Trinity or the way by what can save man if he does sin.

The Muslim is right to believe in a supreme, above all creator. He's using his head at those points, but his heart is failing him, as he rejects the special revelation that is given by God.

I agree that most man-made systems of religion have a works-based salvation. Most agree that there is a problem with humans and it needs fixed. If a man-made religion says that the way to be saved is through man's works to be right with God, would that fall under the category of not glorifying God and giving Him thanks? Basically, denying the justice of our God against sin.

Mankind is able to observe God's justice against sin, as it is evident by our suffering in this world, and death. We observe that we as created beings, die. Our conscience also bears witness against us. Why would we as creatures even entertain the idea that we could "figure out" how to be right with God? We see that death comes to all.

Also, how would handle children and special needs people? How do they suppress the truth in unrighteousness and not glorify God or give Him thanks? I know John Piper argues that certain groups of people are with excuse. Say a new-born infant or a child in the womb or those with mental disabilities? They don't physically exchange God for images made with hands. We don't expect infants to thank us for changing their diaper or feeding them.

This can be a delicate issue with many. Children and special needs people are by no means sinless. They suppress the truth in the same way. I am familiar with Piper's reasoning, I believe he grounds his understanding from John 9:39-41, where Jesus says, "If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth."

This statement however, is preceded by a discussion with the blind man, where Jesus is referring to the pharisees. "For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind."

The pharisees then confront Jesus, asking if they are blind, and he responds to their remarks by saying if they were blind, they would have no sin. He is responding to their claim to not be blind. I don't think this verse in particular is relevant to the groups of children/special needs. I'm open to correction on my understanding here though.

Both groups are well able to exchange God's glory for a lie mentally, it doesn't require a set of hand tools. They commit the same sins we do, in varying degrees. I leave their salvation to God. We proclaim the gospel, and know that the Spirit gives life where, when, and how he pleases. I hope I'm being of some help to you.

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

So that begs the question: What God,does our mind know, exists?

General revelation only allows for two general things to be know about God according to Romans 1. His eternal power and His divinity.

A Muslim will acknowledge he believes in one God, that created all things and exists outside of the created order. So he believes in one Divine being with eternal power that is outside of creation. How do we handle that according to general revelation? General revelation doesn't give us the Trinity or the way by what can save man if he does sin.

I agree that most man-made systems of religion have a works-based salvation. Most agree that there is a problem with humans and it needs fixed. If a man-made religion says that the way to be saved is through man's works to be right with God, would that fall under the category of not glorifying God and giving Him thanks? Basically, denying the justice of our God against sin.

Also, how would handle children and special needs people? How do they suppress the truth in unrighteousness and not glorify God or give Him thanks? I know John Piper argues that certain groups of people are with excuse. Say a new-born infant or a child in the womb or those with mental disabilities? They don't physically exchange God for images made with hands. We don't expect infants to thank us for changing their diaper or feeding them.

My minds runs through these passages with so many different questions. I want to be better equipped to explain and answer subjects related to these passages if asked. Thanks again, brother!

That's crazy you bring this up. I was at a Christian concert last night, and completely randomly started thinking about how much I knew about God before I was a Christian. And I grew up in a Godless home. Where did that knowledge come from? I don't quite know, but I think much of it is naturally installed inside of us as spiritual beings. Like how do the birds know exactly where to migrate? How does a seed know which direction is up? Things are just programmed by God in special ways, and I think He has revealed a lot to us, but because of our sin and idolatry, we choose to suppress a lot of it for the sake of believing what we want to believe.

 

[NicolasD1689]

The Muslim is right to believe in a supreme, above all creator. He's using his head at those points, but his heart is failing him, as he rejects the special revelation that is given by God.


Mankind is able to observe God's justice against sin, as it is evident by our suffering in this world, and death. We observe that we as created beings, die. Our conscience also bears witness against us. Why would we as creatures even entertain the idea that we could "figure out" how to be right with God? We see that death comes to all.


This can be a delicate issue with many. Children and special needs people are by no means sinless. They suppress the truth in the same way. I am familiar with Piper's reasoning, I believe he grounds his understanding from John 9:39-41, where Jesus says, "If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth."

This statement however, is preceded by a discussion with the blind man, where Jesus is referring to the pharisees. "For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind."

The pharisees then confront Jesus, asking if they are blind, and he responds to their remarks by saying if they were blind, they would have no sin. He is responding to their claim to not be blind. I don't think this verse in particular is relevant to the groups of children/special needs. I'm open to correction on my understanding here though.

Both groups are well able to exchange God's glory for a lie mentally, it doesn't require a set of hand tools. They commit the same sins we do, in varying degrees. I leave their salvation to God. We proclaim the gospel, and know that the Spirit gives life where, when, and how he pleases. I hope I'm being of some help to you.

The Muslim is right to believe in a supreme, above all creator. He's using his head at those points, but his heart is failing him, as he rejects the special revelation that is given by God.

The Muslim can only reject special revelation if he is given it. I am not trying to play the devil's advocate, just running through scenarios.

Say a Muslim grows up and never hears the Gospel, how did he reject the eternal power and Divinity of God? General revelation can only reveal that much about God.

Or as I mentioned before, does the Muslim reject the divinity of God (General revelation) because he thinks that salvation is attainable through man's righteousness?

 

[NicolasD1689]

Both groups are well able to exchange God's glory for a lie mentally, it doesn't require a set of hand tools. They commit the same sins we do, in varying degrees. I leave their salvation to God. We proclaim the gospel, and know that the Spirit gives life where, when, and how he pleases. I hope I'm being of some help to you.

You have been a blessing and a wonderful help in thinking through these issues. I appreciate your willingness and time to help answer these questions for me!