Featured Human Author of Hebrews

Discussion in 'NT Epistles' started by Kinghezy, Mar 15, 2019.

  1. Paul

    22 vote(s)
    55.0%
  2. Luke

    1 vote(s)
    2.5%
  3. Apollos

    8 vote(s)
    20.0%
  4. Priscilla

    1 vote(s)
    2.5%
  5. Barnabas

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Not listed

    1 vote(s)
    2.5%
  7. Do not care

    1 vote(s)
    2.5%
  8. Holy Spirit (even though you said human author, I have to say who is the primary author)

    1 vote(s)
    2.5%
  9. Mystery (for Grant Jones, so I better see at least one Cote)

    4 vote(s)
    10.0%
  10. Jude (for Post Tenebras so one vote expected. Grant, spelled it right this time!)

    1 vote(s)
    2.5%
  1. Kinghezy

    Kinghezy Puritan Board Freshman

    I came across James White saying he thought Luke wrote (because of language) Hebrews based on a Paul sermon (because of theology). There was a post on the board that posited the same in an external link.

    Does anyone on the board have any insights? I would not have the skill to analyze this, beyond saying "that theory sounds good".

    I also added a poll.

    P.S. if Luke, then Paul and Luke certainly have even more % of the New Testament.
     
  2. Kinghezy

    Kinghezy Puritan Board Freshman

    @Grant Jones my attempt at a non-depressing non-troubling thread. Unless someone answers Erdman, this one should be safe.
     
  3. Reformed Bookworm

    Reformed Bookworm Puritan Board Sophomore

  4. Grant Jones

    Grant Jones Puritan Board Sophomore

    All answers should include the HS. So maybe make that vote option to read “mystery” instead.:2cents:

    I vote mystery. However if you held me at gun point I lean towards Paul.:detective:
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  5. Grant Jones

    Grant Jones Puritan Board Sophomore

    Doug your too Funny.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  6. Reformed Bookworm

    Reformed Bookworm Puritan Board Sophomore

    The Holy Spirit is oviously the author but the OP made a point to say "human author."

    If it is Paul, what do we do with this verse:

    "How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him" - Hebrews 2:3 - The Holy Bible: King James Version.

    Paul was pretty clear that he heard his message directly from our Lord:

    "For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ." - Galatians 1:12 The Holy Bible: King James Version.

    The Greek of Hebrews is also superior to Paul's. There are also many more solid arguments against Pauline authorship. I suggest listening to Phillip's sermon I posted. You would be hard-pressed to find a modern commentator that agrees with Pauline authorship. At the end of the day, I will also concede that it was the Holy Spirit.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  7. Grant Jones

    Grant Jones Puritan Board Sophomore

    I thought you were signing off:p
     
  8. Reformed Bookworm

    Reformed Bookworm Puritan Board Sophomore

    :D I was but I am a Hebrews fanatic. It is hard for me to leave such a discussion.

    *Please see my revised response to yours. :handshake:
     
  9. Grant Jones

    Grant Jones Puritan Board Sophomore

    Ha....I see. I lean heavy on it forever being a mystery and it seems that was the authors intent as well. My ultimate vote is “mystery” and i do not have an option in the Poll for that. If pressed I lean towards Paul. It seems Cavin, Luther, and Henry tend to lean towards Paul as well.

    Further I have heard some say that the book of Hebrews consist of sermons from Paul that were written down by another. This might help to explain a different level of Greek.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  10. Kinghezy

    Kinghezy Puritan Board Freshman

    Those arguments of external evidence (better Greek) and internal evidence (claiming to not be an apostle) seem to point away from Paul. That seems to compelling to me. I would ultimately say Holy Spirit, as my tongue-in-cheek option pointed towards.

    And while I have some mild interest in who was the human author, I wouldn't obsess over it either. If it was not revealed, it must not be important. It's like wanting to know exactly what was said between Barnabas and Paul's when arguing about Mark.

    I know... I'll know... I am undercutting the whole premise of this thread.
     
  11. Kinghezy

    Kinghezy Puritan Board Freshman

    Added, misspelling and all.
     
  12. Reformed Bookworm

    Reformed Bookworm Puritan Board Sophomore

    I have heard the transcribed sermon theory but it does not answer the issue raised by the verses I quoted above.

    I dearly love Calvin, Luther, Henry, Owen, Gill, and Gouge but I don't agree with them here. I am not so stubborn on this opinion that I can't be persuaded of Pauline authorship. It just hasn't been adequately defended to me.

    Whoever the human author was, they were most likely very close to Paul and learned from him. I think that can be gathered from:

    "Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty; with whom, if he come shortly, I will see you." - Hebrews 13:23 The Holy Bible: King James Version.
     
  13. Reformed Bookworm

    Reformed Bookworm Puritan Board Sophomore

    Now I am signing off for a while. I will be back later. :pilgrim:
     
  14. Grant Jones

    Grant Jones Puritan Board Sophomore

    True Christian hospitality towards a weaker spelling brother. My vote is cast!
     
  15. Grant Jones

    Grant Jones Puritan Board Sophomore

    For real this time or are you just trying to sound like the Terminator;)?
     
  16. LilyG

    LilyG Puritan Board Freshman

    Ha, I was reading through his Hebrews commentary and discovered this audio series last week! Almost mentioned it here. So glad I found it.
     
  17. timfost

    timfost Puritan Board Junior

    Yes, it is more polished writing than Paul's usual. If I look back into my own writings, some are much more polished, especially if it is a writing that I polished and re-polished as I used and reused it. Hebrews was likely a frequent sermon for Paul. Furthermore, Paul likely dictated his Epistles and someone else wrote. He may have received feedback and revised with whoever wrote for him.

    I hear these arguments, but don't find them compelling when we consider real life writing and editing.

    :2cents:
     
  18. timfost

    timfost Puritan Board Junior

    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  19. Reformed Bookworm

    Reformed Bookworm Puritan Board Sophomore

    I just wanted to sound like the Terminator.
     
  20. fredtgreco

    fredtgreco Vanilla Westminsterian Staff Member

  21. bookslover

    bookslover Puritan Board Professor

    James White's guess is as good as anyone else's, I suppose. I do subscribe to the idea that it's the earliest example of a complete Christian sermon.
     
  22. Paul1976

    Paul1976 Puritan Board Freshman

    Paul's reasoning is very logical and linear. The author of Hebrews thinks very differently than Paul. The reasoning in Hebrews is more circular. To me, fa close study of something like Romans followed by a close study of Hebrews made it abundantly clear that the two are products of minds that think very differently. Along with John and Revelation, Romans and Hebrews are easily in my four favorite books of the Bible. I dearly love both, but I simply can't see Romans and Hebrews being written by the same person.

    I can also say what I was able to read and appreciate from commentaries on the two books seemed to imply a very different use of language. As I do not know Greek, I'm relying on how I understood the use of language from commentaries. What I could see in studying Romans was excellent communication, but am emphasis on clearly establishing theology. The author of Hebrews seems to have an unusual gift for putting things beautifully and a rich manner.

    I do also agree with the points above, especially that Paul would never put himself in a group that had not seen the risen Christ.

    We know quite little of Apollos, but I personally find it remarkable that every brief phrase used to describe him, his eloquence, his knowledge of the OT, and his hometown (a center apparently of the type of Greek used in Hebrews), is exactly what I would expect the author of Hebrews to be. I personally strongly suspect he wrote it. I also agree that, if God did not leave clear evidence of authorship, there is no point in making a significant issue out of it.
     
  23. Reformed Bookworm

    Reformed Bookworm Puritan Board Sophomore

    I apologize but am confused about this remark. I may have missed something. What is James White's opinion or his relevance on the authorship of Hebrews?
     
  24. SeanPatrickCornell

    SeanPatrickCornell Puritan Board Freshman

    Very first line in the first post of this thread might help you.

    "I came across James White saying he thought Luke wrote (because of language) Hebrews based on a Paul sermon (because of theology)."
     
  25. Reformed Bookworm

    Reformed Bookworm Puritan Board Sophomore

    Oh, ha. I forgot about that mention after the 22 following posts. Long week.
     
  26. earl40

    earl40 Puritan Board Post-Graduate

    If Hebrews is written for theological purposes I would think Luke would be disqualified.
     
  27. Kinghezy

    Kinghezy Puritan Board Freshman

    How is he disqualified from summarizing a Paul sermon?

    Edited: removed snarky comment.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  28. Bill The Baptist

    Bill The Baptist Puritan Board Senior

    Personally, I think it is very difficult to determine authorship based merely on style. The fact is that people write differently depending on purpose. If Paul wrote Romans as a theological treatise, and Hebrews as a sermon, then it would only make sense for the style to be different. That is not to suggest that I believe Paul to definitely be the author, merely that I find this line of reasoning to be fallacious. It is precisely this kind of analysis that brought us the documentary hypothesis.
     
  29. Grant Jones

    Grant Jones Puritan Board Sophomore

    @Kinghezy : aren’t you glad you added “mystery”.:popcorn:
     
  30. Kinghezy

    Kinghezy Puritan Board Freshman

    Indeed. I see someone was bold enough to say Holy Spirit. And the definition of cote is "a shelter for mammals or birds, especially pigeons." Seeing that, reminds me that I have seen that in some older commentaries like Matthew Henry from 2 Sam 7 "He had raised him from a very mean and low condition: He took him from the sheep-cote.".

    So, what I am obviously (cough cough) trying to say (cough cough) is that this answer is a shelter from the speculative answers.

    Nailed it.
     

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