FenderPriest
Puritan Board Junior
So there I am, having a conversation with a brother in our church about what God's doing in his life, and the guy behind us in Starbucks interjects. My friend has to leave to for work, and I keep talking to the guy. He works with inspirational speakers and talks a lot about how "repentance" or "the choice we make to change" is fundamental to life and growth. So I'm drawing him out on how God is involved in that process, presenting some good'ol "we're dead in our trespasses and sins" and "God must do the work and we repent/respond in light of God's activity" because God gets all the glory, etc. This leads to discussing death and resurrection, and he talks about how the spiritual is most important, and that's why Jesus was only spiritually raised from the dead.
Me: So, you would you say Jesus was physically raised from the dead?
Him: No, he only appeared to be - he was spiritually raised from the dead, and only looked like he was physical.
Me: Well, that's not a Christian belief.
Him: That's just your opinion.
Me: No, the Apostles who knew Jesus didn't teach that. The guys right after the Apostles didn't teach that. The church had some counsels and rejected that opinion. It's not opinion, it's a fact. Christians don't believe that.
It was a generous and hearty conversation and we genuinely were able to enjoy talking. We went from there to emphasizing that yes, God wants all the glory. No, this isn't about us because God is "most glorified in us when we're most satisfied in him." Which means that God makes himself look great, and that's what God is after - it's in the first commandment. No, we're not connected with God - he's wholly different than we are, we're just creatures.
I was grateful that I was able to present the Gospel to him (talkative types tend to dominate conversations) - that Jesus died in our place for the wrath we deserve for our sins (which aren't just "missing the mark") so that we would be spiritually and physically raised from the dead with Christ, be reconciled with God, and one day God will create a new heavens and new earth where we'll physically and spiritually live with God - not just spiritual, but the whole deal gets the curse of death taken away. All because of Jesus' death in our place. The guy seemed to get the centrality of the cross, but it obviously wan't central or clear in his thinking. He may have been a Christian in "mere" sort of way, but it was clear he didn't think like a Christian or have clear Christian convictions. Hopefully my "that's not what Christian's believe" statement set a thorn in his thinking... I pointed him back to the Bible to wrestle with what God says there (No, it's not just man's words, Jesus was sinless so God can speak sinless, human words), and I pray the Lord would help him see Christ more clearly.
So, just thought I'd share that the ol'school heresies are alive and kicking, for those who may have forgotten about them.
Anybody else have this type of experience?
Me: So, you would you say Jesus was physically raised from the dead?
Him: No, he only appeared to be - he was spiritually raised from the dead, and only looked like he was physical.
Me: Well, that's not a Christian belief.
Him: That's just your opinion.
Me: No, the Apostles who knew Jesus didn't teach that. The guys right after the Apostles didn't teach that. The church had some counsels and rejected that opinion. It's not opinion, it's a fact. Christians don't believe that.
It was a generous and hearty conversation and we genuinely were able to enjoy talking. We went from there to emphasizing that yes, God wants all the glory. No, this isn't about us because God is "most glorified in us when we're most satisfied in him." Which means that God makes himself look great, and that's what God is after - it's in the first commandment. No, we're not connected with God - he's wholly different than we are, we're just creatures.
I was grateful that I was able to present the Gospel to him (talkative types tend to dominate conversations) - that Jesus died in our place for the wrath we deserve for our sins (which aren't just "missing the mark") so that we would be spiritually and physically raised from the dead with Christ, be reconciled with God, and one day God will create a new heavens and new earth where we'll physically and spiritually live with God - not just spiritual, but the whole deal gets the curse of death taken away. All because of Jesus' death in our place. The guy seemed to get the centrality of the cross, but it obviously wan't central or clear in his thinking. He may have been a Christian in "mere" sort of way, but it was clear he didn't think like a Christian or have clear Christian convictions. Hopefully my "that's not what Christian's believe" statement set a thorn in his thinking... I pointed him back to the Bible to wrestle with what God says there (No, it's not just man's words, Jesus was sinless so God can speak sinless, human words), and I pray the Lord would help him see Christ more clearly.
So, just thought I'd share that the ol'school heresies are alive and kicking, for those who may have forgotten about them.
Anybody else have this type of experience?