If you wanna understand eschatology....

[luvroftheWord]

....do yourselves a favor and buy the new book [u:973e871484]When Shall These Things Be? A Reformed Response to Hyper-Preterism[/u:973e871484] and read Richard Pratt's essay "Hyper-Preterism and Unfolding Biblical Eschatology". The issue of HP aside, the article is excellent for understanding eschatology in general.

 

[turmeric]

Hi, I'm Meg, I'm a recovering Dispensationalist,

[u:4dee181ba9]A Case for Amilenialism[/u:4dee181ba9] by Kim Riddlebarger, excellent!

Keep coming back, it works!:biggrin:

 

[fredtgreco]

[quote:a1677f67c9][i:a1677f67c9]Originally posted by turmeric[/i:a1677f67c9]
Hi, I'm Meg, I'm a recovering Dispensationalist,

[u:a1677f67c9]A Case for Amilenialism[/u:a1677f67c9] by Kim Riddlebarger, excellent!

Keep coming back, it works!:biggrin: [/quote:a1677f67c9]

Helllo, Meg!

 

[heartoflesh]

I just got done teaching what turned out to be a 13 week course on Eschatology as one of our Adult Sunday School offerings. The experience has left me convinced that most people have no interest whatsoever in learning about redemptive historical fulfillment, but would rather speculate about whether computer chips are going to be placed on our foreheads or in the palms of our hands.

I found out that eschatology is an extremely daunting subject to attempt to teach--especially for a layment like myself, albeit a diligently studious laymen. The bulk of my time was spent just trying to deconstruct embedded dispensational presuppositions on almost every front. In fact, I lost about a third of my class the week after presenting my analysis of the pretrib rapture theory.

In the end, however, I feel like I opened up a few people's eyes to seeing the bigger picture--seeing the forest for the trees, especially in regards to Revelation.

[Edited on 3-6-2004 by Rick Larson]

 

[Galahad]

In talking with my folks tonight, I described Dispensationalism as this: "The Dispensational understanding of eschatology is that the Church failed." While it was promised to subdue the earth, it was unable to. Postmillenial is highly optimistic, but from my perspective fails to pass the test of history - while the church has reached the outermost ends of the earth, it has not subdued it.

I suppose I fall in line with my father - I'm "Pan-millenial" -- It'll all "pan-out" in the end. <chuckles>

Actually, I'm aware that the position you take eschatologically radically impacts your view of the church and its role in society.

Side note: Based on the Dispensational premillennial view (the world is going to Hell in a handbasket), why do Dispensationalists get so up in arms about the civil support for the marriage of homosexuals? Wouldn't this support their claim of the failed church age and the Rapture/Tribulation?
------------
Jeffrey Brannen
UCA
Covenant Pres. (PCA)
Little Rock, AR

 

[Fernando]

book

luvrovtheWord,

Where did you get your copy of "When Shall These Things Be"? I had the book on order at Barnes and Noble but they just told me they couldn't get the book.

[Edited on 3-6-2004 by Fernando]

 

[luvroftheWord]

I ordered it straight from P&R.

 

[dswatts]

So...Craig, what if you don't even fully understand the Post or Amil position? [/quote:005f4666bf]

I can relate to feeling like that!

I highly recommend Anthony Hoekema's [u:005f4666bf]The Bible And The Future[/u:005f4666bf]. The Lord really used that book to open my eyes and get me thinking. I too was steeped in dispensational teaching.

Grace,
Dwayne

 

[cupotea]

You mean the pre-trib rapture [i:2ac4bbf0c1]isn't[/i:2ac4bbf0c1] true?

:roll:
:saint:

 

[heartoflesh]

[quote:b12d76b266] I highly recommend Anthony Hoekema's [u:b12d76b266]The Bible And The Future[/u:b12d76b266]. The Lord really used that book to open my eyes and get me thinking. I too was steeped in dispensational teaching.

Grace,
Dwayne [/quote:b12d76b266]


I used this book as my outline for the first few weeks of my class. I think Hoekema does an excellent job of presenting a complex subject in an organized manner, and it helped me quite a bit. Of course, the constant joke in class was "when are we gonna get to Revelation?"

Another resource of inestimable value was Clouse's "The Meaning of the Millennium".

 

[twogunfighter]

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


[quote:ec470ad3d3]
A Case for Amilenialism by Kim Riddlebarger, excellent!
[/quote:ec470ad3d3]

(Gotta get my post count up)

 

[luvroftheWord]

Josh,

You really dont have to understand the various Millennial positions to understand Pratt's article because he is basically dealing with the timings and fulfillments of prophecies in general. In fact, it would be good for you to read the article now as well.

 

[regswrb]

FREE Reformation resources (articles, books and MP3s) on esc

Dear Brother and Sisters in Christ:

We have a healthy selection of FREE Reformation resources (articles, books and MP3s) on eschatology available at:

[b:b89c07b459]+++ Eschatology, Antichrist and the Last Days[/b:b89c07b459]
http://www.swrb.com/newslett/FREEBOOK/eschatol.htm

- Some samples of the freebies you will find here include:

+ Apocalyptic Interpretation from the Original Covenanter and Contending Witness magazine. (Explains, in summary form, the six main theories of Apocalyptic interpretation, while also citing the originators of each system.)
FREE ETEXT at: http://www.swrb.com/newslett/actualnls/ApocInt.htm

+ Antichrist (666) Revealed; or, Lectures Upon the Principal Prophecies of the Revelation 10/10 (1814) by Alexander McLeod (Book: Lectures on Revelation, printed edition at http://www.swrb.com/catalog/M.htm).
FREE MP3 at: http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sermonid=92301115726

+ Reformation Eschatology, The Millennium & the Victory of Christ's Kingdom (1/2) by Greg Price (Micah Series)
FREE MP3 at: http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sermonid=31101155143

+ Islam in the Bible (1/3) by Drs. Francis Nigel Lee
FREE MP3 audio at: http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sermonID=9130243446

+ Is Popery the Antichrist? or The Tendency of Prophecy to Describe Things According to the Reality, Rather that the Appearance or Profession by Patrick Fairbairn (Classic Protestant Historicism demonstrating why both futurism and preterism are hermeneutically flawed.)
FREE ETEXT at: http://www.swrb.com/newslett/actualnls/PoperyAnti.htm

+ Preterism Refuted 1 of 3 (Historic Reformation Eschatology) by E.B. Elliott, David Steele, Alexander M'Leod et al.
FREE at: http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sermonID=124029164

"The Counter Reformation is generally considered to have three aspects: the Jesuits, the Inquisition, and the Council of Trent. In view of the significance of the Protestant apocalyptic interpretation of history which prophetically pinpointed step by step the events covering the whole Christian era from the beginning to the end, it seems justifiable to suggest a fourth aspect, namely the praeteristic and futuristic interpretations launched by Catholic expositors as a counterattack" ([i:b89c07b459]John Foxe and the Elizabethan Church[/i:b89c07b459] by V. Norskov Olsen [Berkeley: University of California Press, 1973], p. 47).

+++ Our [b:b89c07b459]Reformation Bookshelf CDs 13 and 14[/b:b89c07b459] (at http://www.swrb.com/Puritan/reformation-bookshelf-CDs.htm ) and [b:b89c07b459]Puritan Bookshelf CD 30[/b:b89c07b459] (at http://www.swrb.com/Puritan/puritan-bookshelf-CDs.htm ) also contain a wealth of classic Puritan and Reformed books on this topic.

Enjoy!

Your Servant in Christ (for the Third Reformation),
Reg Barrow, President, STILL WATERS REVIVAL BOOKS
Serving Christians worldwide (in over 100 countries) for 19+ years.

Isa. 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Isa. 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Isa. 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

 

[exscentric]

It was said, "I described Dispensationalism as this: "The Dispensational understanding of eschatology is that the Church failed." While it was promised to subdue the earth, it was unable to."

Could you put a dispensationalist quote to back up this description? Might be interesting.

 

[Scott]

Where is the Pratt article ("Hyper-Preterism and Unfolding Biblical Eschatology&quot available, online? Or is it in the book you mentioned?

BTW, Pratt's He Gave Us Prophets video series is a great antidote to alot of end times problems going around.

 

[luvroftheWord]

I think it is only available in the book. But you can check out www.thirdmill.org and see if he has made it available there.

 

[Wannabee]

:tongue:

I just had to peak my head in here. Still premil.

The description of dispensationalism here is a bit outdated though. Same old story. Describe ultra-dispensationalism and pile every premil into the same bunker. It just ain't so.

 

[luvroftheWord]

[quote:7d08c3cfc1][i:7d08c3cfc1]Originally posted by Wannabee[/i:7d08c3cfc1]

Still premil.
[/quote:7d08c3cfc1]

Don't worry, man. It passes with time. :saint:

 

[pastorway]

Yep...it finally passes 1,000 years after Christ returns.

 

[brymaes]

[quote:7812d18c11][i:7812d18c11]Originally posted by pastorway[/i:7812d18c11]
Yep...it finally passes 1,000 years after Christ returns.

[/quote:7812d18c11]

:biggrin: :cool_rsvd:

 

[luvroftheWord]

[quote:806c472f05][i:806c472f05]Originally posted by pastorway[/i:806c472f05]
Yep...it finally passes 1,000 years after Christ returns.

[/quote:806c472f05]

Touche! :tongue:

 

[Wannabee]