I'm complementarian..but women are missionaries

[Pergamum]

Tim:

I believe that the church can rightly appoint tasks that further the church's mission, e.g., the expansion of the Gospel. Some were sent out in Acts on what seems to be short-term trips and some (II John and II John) went out for the sake of the Name and we do not know what office these sent-out-ones held, if any.

I think there is considerable liberty in this. You mentioned above that even Rushdoony, a much more revered thinker than I am, suggested that the church should help in areas such as hospitals and orphanages. I also think that a church may bless and send out a young women as a nurse to minister through healthcare to poor Africans, etc, or send out non-ordained translators (even women translators) to go and help in the translation of the Scriptures abroad.

Churches decide many more mundane things every week, such as the purchase of buildings, and automobiles and they sometimes appoint people to go out and do those tasks.

---------- Post added at 02:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:01 PM ----------

p.s. Tim, what would you suggest as a more biblical way to do missions and utilize even non-officers (if we should) in vital tasks overseas?

 

[Tim]

I think that is a useful clarification of your position.

I must go off-line now, but I really think there is a valuable discussion here - what exactly is the scope (practically speaking!) of the Church's mission on earth? Depending on how wide this is defined will affect who may be considered a missionary (women or men). It will also help us prioritize.

I hope the North American crowd continues with the discussion!

 

[Pergamum]

Tim,

I think you just asked, "What is the mission of the Church?"


Here is one response:


What is the Mission of the Church? – Kevin DeYoung

And here are others:

And let our people also learn to maintain good works, to meet urgent needs, that they may not be unfruitful" (Titus 3:14).

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven" (Matt. 5:16).

If we say that the mission of the Church is the Great Commission, then what about the Great Commandment, too. If we say that it is to glorify God, then don't we glorify God by helping the needy?


Whatever the best definition of the "mission of the Church" is, I believe that such a definition could still allow the participation of women within this mission as missionary laborers and full team-mates, and with the full permission of the established churches that pray and support such efforts.

 

[Scottish Lass]

Anna:

Nothing I have said is self-contradictory. Explain further your point.

You said you had never seen bible translators or literacy workers in U.S. churches. Examples were provided. You then went to the broader "specialists," without specifics. You then end with a semi-circular church -> missions -> church but expect to have/see differences in the two areas. If one leads to another in such a connected way as you describe, why would we expect differences?

 

[Pergamum]

Anna:

Nothing I have said is self-contradictory. Explain further your point.

You said you had never seen bible translators or literacy workers in U.S. churches. Examples were provided. You then went to the broader "specialists," without specifics. You then end with a semi-circular church -> missions -> church but expect to have/see differences in the two areas. If one leads to another in such a connected way as you describe, why would we expect differences?

I have never seen bible translators or literacy workers in a US church. Many US churches have been long-established and are not attempting to cross ethno-linguistic barriars in their local contexts.

Those churches that DO have these folks working are almost always targetting a different culture and would then be engaged in a cross-cultural work akin to foreign missions. Teaching English in the US is different than learning the heart-language of a people overseas in order to communicate the Gospel or translate the bible in their language. The SILers I know in the US are helping native americans or are in teaching roles but are almost always not directly connected to local churches.

Western established churches have to take care of all of their members. Missionaries overseas have a more narrow focus on planting and strengthening churches where they do not exist. Thus, their focus is different and thus their methodologies may differ as well. So, if we do NOT see diffferences in activity between established US pastors and mission teams on an unreached field, this should be a cause for alarm. US pastorates and cross cultural mission efforts are often two very different beasts.

What are your beliefs on the subject?

 

[Scottish Lass]

Edward answered your claim about literacy workers and Bible translators---it's not our fault you attach more meaning to the words. People teaching ESL are literacy workers; you meant people dealing with a second language in a different culture, but it's not what you said. Same for translators. I've helped teach English to Yemeni women, but unless I do it in another country, it sounds like it doesn't count in your book--maybe I'm mistaken, but that's the feeling I get.
I don't know what you mean by "heart-language"--is that different than the local language?

But all of this is beyond the scope of the OP. My beliefs on the OP is that women should play limited, biblical roles whether in an established church, a Western church plant, or among an unreached group. Women can/should teach women and children and model Christian living (and a Christian marriage, if applicable).

 

[Pergamum]

Edward answered your claim about literacy workers and Bible translators---it's not our fault you attach more meaning to the words. People teaching ESL are literacy workers; you meant people dealing with a second language in a different culture, but it's not what you said. Same for translators. I've helped teach English to Yemeni women, but unless I do it in another country, it sounds like it doesn't count in your book--maybe I'm mistaken, but that's the feeling I get.
I don't know what you mean by "heart-language"--is that different than the local language?

But all of this is beyond the scope of the OP. My beliefs on the OP is that women should play limited, biblical roles whether in an established church, a Western church plant, or among an unreached group. Women can/should teach women and children and model Christian living (and a Christian marriage, if applicable).

Anna,

Teaching English to Yemeni speakers is not the same as us learning the Heart-language of another country and ministering there. Teaching Yemeni speakers English (who have Yemeni as their heart language) may open up Yemeni speakers to English-language Gospel resources, but far more effective is the strategy of getting Gospel resources into Yemenese.

I am glad for any work that is going on, but I do not believe these two strategies are on the same level of effectiveness. This is not a critique, and I am, again, glad for your efforts, but the effectiveness of the strategies is far different. That is why I am treating the two things as different animals possessing a large degree of difference whereas you same to be equating the two strategies as more similar and this might be at the heart of our misunderstanding.

A heart-language is the language that most moves you, i.e., the language of the heart. I can read the Bible in 2 other languages but the Bible most moves me and feeds me spiritually in my own heart language of English. Though many other peoples around the world can speak english, when they get mad, sad, fight, argue, make love, talk most intimately, cuss, or revert back to when they are tired, is called their Heart-Language, their primary language. When evangelizing groups of people around the world, we ought to aim towards getting the Gospel into the heart-language of that people so that the Gospel can be owned as their own and not as a foreign import. The Yemenese might understand the Gospel in English, but they would understand it far greater in their own local tongue.

Believe me, ESL and you teaching English to these Yemenese women DOES count high in my book and you are doing a very valuable ministry and I am glad for you.

If you would like, we can start another post on this topic of heart-language versus second-language missions ministries.


I agree with your assessment about the use of women on the mission field; they can and should be utilized and are most effective in ministering to women and children and as models of the Christian home.

 

[Scottish Lass]

So we mostly agree, I believe. I'm not sure I can wholeheartedly agree with your last sentence; your qualifier leaves room for other ways women could serve. Do you think there are other "effective" ways women should serve on the mission field (which is to the heart of the OP, I think)?

 

[Pergamum]

So we mostly agree, I believe. I'm not sure I can wholeheartedly agree with your last sentence; your qualifier leaves room for other ways women could serve. Do you think there are other "effective" ways women should serve on the mission field (which is to the heart of the OP, I think)?

Yes, it sounds like we agree.

Yes, I see many other effective ways that women can serve and still not usurp any male ecclesiastical authority.

These ways include ministering to women and children, but may also include bible translation, literacy, social justice and mercy and medical ministries, teaching english, education, admin and supporting roles, counseling and member care, document services and visa roles, hospitality, media and radio ministry roles...add to this list probably 100 other roles as well.

The fields are white for harvest and I wish I had 100 more female inquirers into the missions-going process because I have seen many godly women become very effective Harvesters here and elsewhere.

 

[Scottish Lass]

I think most people would find those roles acceptable, with care given to what you mean by "counseling and member care" and "radio ministry".

 

[Brian Withnell]

I’m a Complementarian, But… Women Are Missionaries – Pure Church by Thabiti Anyabwile

Thoughts? What roles can women play in missions/

"But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet."

So if you ask me, a woman can do many things, as long as it is not exercise of authority or teaching. The passage in Timothy gives pre-fall rational, and post-fall rational. If the tasks (welding pipes, sewing clothing, fixing engines, drilling wells) do not involve authority or teaching, they are within the bounds of Biblical limits (and the restrictions of the WCF) but outside this, I'm sure a woman should not act.

---------- Post added at 10:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 PM ----------

Crossing cultures necessitates a number of specialists tasks not seen in US churches. Also, mission exists even where local churches do not exist (yet). Missions produces churches and churches produce missions, therefore, we should expect differences in the two contexts.

You ought to step into Sterling, Virginia sometime or parts of Los Angeles ... anywhere the majority of the people are not English speaking European background. Crossing cultures can be just driving down the street 3 miles in many areas.

 

[Pergamum]

I’m a Complementarian, But… Women Are Missionaries – Pure Church by Thabiti Anyabwile

Thoughts? What roles can women play in missions/

"But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet."

So if you ask me, a woman can do many things, as long as it is not exercise of authority or teaching. The passage in Timothy gives pre-fall rational, and post-fall rational. If the tasks (welding pipes, sewing clothing, fixing engines, drilling wells) do not involve authority or teaching, they are within the bounds of Biblical limits (and the restrictions of the WCF) but outside this, I'm sure a woman should not act.

---------- Post added at 10:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 PM ----------

Crossing cultures necessitates a number of specialists tasks not seen in US churches. Also, mission exists even where local churches do not exist (yet). Missions produces churches and churches produce missions, therefore, we should expect differences in the two contexts.

You ought to step into Sterling, Virginia sometime or parts of Los Angeles ... anywhere the majority of the people are not English speaking European background. Crossing cultures can be just driving down the street 3 miles in many areas.

Crossing different American race and class demographics is a needed thing.

Crossing an ethno-linguistic divide overseas is even more needed.