In Need of Advice Regarding Dec. 25

[David073]

Hello all, I will begin with a brief preface and then will get into my concern.

Preface: In Jan. 2022 my father in law died. To better help my mother in law after this sudden loss me and my wife and kids decided to move in with her. She is a professing believer (though never reads the Bible anymore and doesn’t go to church) and observes xmas.

Concern: Since my mother in law celebrates xmas she has decorated the home in the traditional decor for this time of year (tree, stockings, etc.). She will be hosting xmas on Dec. 24th in which our whole family will be over. They will do gift exchanges, white elephant game, as well as other festive activities.

Me and my wife and children do not recognize nor observe xmas and will go about Dec. 24th as any other Saturday. My question is this, since the whole family will be at my house should I keep my children from participating in the festive games/activities? One activity will be, for example, a small gift will be saran wrapped a ridiculous amount of time and each participant has a small amount of time to unwrap it before it moves to the next person and ends when someone reaches the small gift.

I lean more on no participation for my family in these activities, yet my children are allowed to play with their cousins and me and my wife will be mingling downstairs with family we don’t see as often as we’d like since we don’t want to be shut in’s and stuck upstairs away from the gathering.

Sorry for the long winded post, but would just like some wisdom regarding this particular circumstance. Thanks!

 

[Blood-Bought Pilgrim]

My inclination would be to allow the kids to participate, and just view it as time spent with family. Just because you do not observe xmas as a legitimate holy day does not mean your family cannot participate in the secular celebrations others are holding.

However, if your conscience is such that you view xmas activities as actively idolatrous or demonic, I would suggest of course not participating nor allowing your children to participate.

This really seems like a parallel to meat sacrificed to idols in my mind.

 

[JH]

Somewhat of a difficult situation to navigate, other than general principles. Living as a family with your mother-in-law, without sounding unbecoming, I question the wisdom of, especially if in the spirit of charity she doesn't evidence the fruits of a Christian.

Back to general principles, we have to honour the Lord and the conscience he has given us; I personally don't know if I would attend, but if you plan on attending and staying Saturday for their festivities, I wouldn't distance yourself or yours from anyone in a holier than thou disposition. That being said, I would only walk as far as conscience will allow you as well because God is the Lord of our conscience, and anything not from faith is sin. If others ask you why your children/you do not participate in certain games, simply give a reason for the hope within you in the spirit of meekness and gentleness.

 

[Hamalas]

I'll be praying for wisdom for you brother!

I understand the RPCNA concerns about celebrating Christmas as a holy-day. Could you help us understand your objections to celebrating Christmas as a cultural observance/holiday (all of the things you described sound like they fit more into that category to me)?

I ask not to dispute your convictions but simply because understanding what your convictions and concerns are might help us to advise you on how those convictions and concerns intersect with the situation you're in.

 

[C. M. Sheffield]

If you want my opinion, you may be the only witness of the gospel your family has and these types of gatherings are often the only times you will have a chance to see some of them. So, gather with your family. Play games with them. Show kindness to them in word and deed. Keep your scruples to yourself and pray for an opportunity speak with one or more of them about the grace of Jesus Christ.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

I was in this situation a very long time having lived with my mother after my father died and then become caregiver for my mother declining from ailments and Alzheimer's. You don't control the setting as host so have to tolerate things you might not otherwise. Short of someone trying to force you to worship or do something violating conscience, I would not hibernate or totally absent yourselves but would do all you can visiting-wise. For events too much to take, find things useful to help out (find chores, etc., clean up after dinner, etc.). You likely won't find yourself in John Knox's shoes when serving time on a French prison ship and they tried to make him kiss an idol of Mary, who promptly grabbed it and tossed it overboard. But be prepared to tactfully handle things you cannot partake in or wisely witness against if need be. This sounds like you may be doing this more than just this year so you will likely find instances of "we'll do this better next time" or learn things you were not expecting to deal with to know how better to approach.

 

[Parakaleo]

@David073 I've been in pretty much the same situation before. We tried not to be unkind, we greeted people, we tried to show love to others, but we kept a witness against Xmas by excusing ourselves from things that were overtly tied to the holiday (including giving and receiving gifts). It did cause unpleasantness, but we are so glad we maintained a witness against Xmas since, these days, our families seem to understand a little better and respect our convictions.

 

[David073]

I'll be praying for wisdom for you brother!

I understand the RPCNA concerns about celebrating Christmas as a holy-day. Could you help us understand your objections to celebrating Christmas as a cultural observance/holiday (all of the things you described sound like they fit more into that category to me)?

I ask not to dispute your convictions but simply because understanding what your convictions and concerns are might help us to advise you on how those convictions and concerns intersect with the situation you're in.

I am personally against participating in the festive activities associated with xmas since I believe xmas to be an idolatrous invention from man without divine appointment from God Himself. As such, for me anyway, I don’t see how one can basically observe the cultural aspects of this idolatrous day, yet still have a strong disdain for it.

An example (albeit not a good one) is take for example the worship of Baal in the scripture. Imagine someone hating the worship to Baal, yet are okay with the activities associated with Baal. Seems contradictory and illogical in my humble opinion.

I understand the Romans 14 argument in terms of the freedom to eat the meat that had been offered to idols, but therein lies my point. The meat spoken of HAD been offered to idols, past tense. The believers weren’t eating it as it were still being offered to idols.

I would say there’s nothing wrong with the exchanging of gifts and playing games, but to do so with gifts associated with xmas on xmas is pushing it for me. I’m open to being proven wrong though which is why I asked for wisdom in this in the first place.

 

[David073]

I was in this situation a very long time having lived with my mother after my father died and then become caregiver for my mother declining from ailments and Alzheimer's. You don't control the setting as host so have to tolerate things you might not otherwise. Short of someone trying to force you to worship or do something violating conscience, I would not hibernate or totally absent yourselves but would do all you can visiting-wise. For events too much to take, find things useful to help out (find chores, etc., clean up after dinner, etc.). You likely won't find yourself in John Knox's shoes when serving time on a French prison ship and they tried to make him kiss an idol of Mary, who promptly grabbed it and tossed it overboard. But be prepared to tactfully handle things you cannot partake in or wisely witness against if need be. This sounds like you may be doing this more than just this year so you will likely find instances of "we'll do this better next time" or learn things you were not expecting to deal with to know how better to approach.

Thank you brother, and you’re correct, this type of situation isn’t all that new to me.

My issue is that the families that do observe xmas do not understand our abstaining even when we break it down for them. For example my sis in law would find it kind of hypocritical to be against xmas, yet are okay with participating in the festive games, yet also at the same time against the gift exchanges and white elephant.

How can I not appear to be hypocritical in this situation? This is one reason why I wouldn’t want to give the appearance of hypocrisy by saying certain festive activities are permitted, yet others are not.

 

[Ryan&Amber2013]

That's very interesting, brother. I'm sure you are going to get varying advice, and all of it is probably wise. So it's up to you to choose. If it were my family, I would participate in everything they are doing. If you don't, that quickly opens the door for tension in the family, awkwardness, and possibly your kids being saddened. When we first became reformed, we were pretty zealous, and ended up creating division in our family that I regretted. Thankfully that is healed now. I wish you the best in your decisions.

 

[David073]

That's very interesting, brother. I'm sure you are going to get varying advice, and all of it is probably wise. So it's up to you to choose. If it were my family, I would participate in everything they are doing. If you don't, that quickly opens the door for tension in the family, awkwardness, and possibly your kids being saddened. When we first became reformed, we were pretty zealous, and ended up creating division in our family that I regretted. Thankfully that is healed now. I wish you the best in your decisions.

Yes exactly! I don’t wanna cause strife, yet I wanna be obedient to the Lord as well. It’s a tight rope to walk and I just don’t wanna create confusion in my children, and don’t want to appear hypocritical to family as well.

 

[Edward]

@David073 What is your issue with a family reunion on a Saturday. Is December 24 some kind of special day for you?

 

[David073]

@David073 What is your issue with a family reunion on a Saturday. Is December 24 some kind of special day for you?

It’s not as simple as just a family reunion. It is family gathering together to celebrate xmas. They just so happen to celebrate it on xmas eve for various reasons.

 

[TheWord4Word]

How can I not appear to be hypocritical in this situation? This is one reason why I wouldn’t want to give the appearance of hypocrisy by saying certain festive activities are permitted, yet others are not.

Hello David.
While I respect and understand your concern in this matter, I'd point to the original reason you moved in with your mother-in-law. Because you love and care for her, and that love should also extend to the things she loaves and the reasons she loves those things.

She is a believer. She is a Christian. Does she celebrate Christmas because she hates Jesus, or loves the world, or does she celibate the "winter solstice"? My guess is no.

Short of participating in something that is clearly pagan, or specifically morally wrong, I can not say that celebrating something like Christmas (Xmas) that would, at the very least, recognize the birth of Jesus, the Christ, be considered wrong, or disingenuous of ones faith in Christ.

So, I would say that to take part in the seasonal calibration that is really meant to fellowship, and have fun, AND to recognize the birth of the Christ, is the better answer to your question of how you can avoid appearing hypocritical of your faith.

Blessings,

 

[Taylor]

Ultimately, you’re going to have to settle this in a way that satisfies your conscience before the Lord, but I appreciate the fact you are seeking to have a well-informed conscience.

For myself, I see no reason—either biblically or confessionally—why I would need to refrain from being with my family on these kinds of occasions. I will not bring such celebrations into public worship, nor will I miss public worship for them, but I feel free to eat with my family, play games with them, and even open gifts. And if it happens that my family or friends use the occasion to reflect upon Christ’s incarnation, I will praise the Lord with them for it and try to use the opportunity for edification and the advancement of the gospel, as the Lord permits.

But, again, in the end, you must stand before the Lord with a clear conscience.

 

[Afterthought]

My stance against Christmas is one of protest. As such, I personally endeavor to avoid anything that would compromise that protest. Perhaps that is another angle by which you can look at it for yourself. I do not think that it compromises the protest to spend time with family per se, but it depends on what activities are being done.

 

[No Other Name]

Yes exactly! I don’t wanna cause strife, yet I wanna be obedient to the Lord as well. It’s a tight rope to walk and I just don’t wanna create confusion in my children, and don’t want to appear hypocritical to family as well.

This seems like you already know what your conscience wants to do, and now you are anxious about how to mitigate the potential fallout when you do act on your conscience.

 

[No Other Name]

I understand the Romans 14 argument in terms of the freedom to eat the meat that had been offered to idols, but therein lies my point. The meat spoken of HAD been offered to idols, past tense. The believers weren’t eating it as it were still being offered to idols.

This line confuses me. Does your family perform xmas pomp and ceremony as it were still being offered to idols?

 

[Parakaleo]

@David073 What is your issue with a family reunion on a Saturday. Is December 24 some kind of special day for you?

This comment seems distasteful because you know full well David's issue is not with "a family reunion on a Saturday". The question about December 24 being a special day borders on the sardonic. What place does language like this have on this board?

 

[Edward]

This comment seems distasteful

The guy has been living at his mother-in-laws for a good while now. This is her first Christmas without her husband. He needs to show her some grace instead of demonstrating theological superiority. If it offends his conscience, the easy solution is to take his children somewhere for the weekend. (I suspect his wife would want to support her mother during what is going to be an emotional season.)

" me and my wife and kids decided to move in with her. " - maybe I'm parsing that a bit too much, but nothing there about what his mother in law wanted. And then he hits us with this, " since the whole family will be at my house". No, I don't think I am parsing too much.

Maybe I'd be less "distasteful" with additional facts. I'm just going with what we have here.

 

[David073]

You’re doing a lot of assuming without asking me for clarity. Also, the easiest thing for you to do other than “going with what you have” is to not comment at all. Actually I would appreciate it if you would refrain from commenting any further on my post. Your comments are not welcome here.

 

[No Other Name]

You’re doing a lot of assuming without asking me for clarity. Also, the easiest thing for you to do other than “going with what you have” is to not comment at all. Actually I would appreciate it if you would refrain from commenting any further on my post. Your comments are not welcome here.

Can I ask for clarity? You seem to claim Romans 14 doesn't apply but I lost your reasoning there as if the xmas ceremonies still involve active participation in pagan worship?

It is also very unclear as to who is the host of this celebratory gathering?

You say:

She will be hosting xmas on Dec. 24th in which our whole family will be over.

So it is at your mother-in law's house? But yet:

Me and my wife and children do not recognize nor observe xmas and will go about Dec. 24th as any other Saturday. My question is this, since the whole family will be at my house should I keep my children from participating in the festive games/activities?

So it is at your house? And you have already agreed she can celebrate xmas with extended family? In your house?

But you are unsure if you, your wife and children should join in? Or you are sure that you will not and want advice on how to avoid disappointment or arguments?

Am I missing something?

Also, can you please elaborate on how xmas is still actively pagan worship rendering Romans 14 inapplicable?

I am still confused.

 

[NaphtaliPress]

Thank you brother, and you’re correct, this type of situation isn’t all that new to me.

My issue is that the families that do observe xmas do not understand our abstaining even when we break it down for them. For example my sis in law would find it kind of hypocritical to be against xmas, yet are okay with participating in the festive games, yet also at the same time against the gift exchanges and white elephant.

How can I not appear to be hypocritical in this situation? This is one reason why I wouldn’t want to give the appearance of hypocrisy by saying certain festive activities are permitted, yet others are not.

You may not be able to avoid you in-law's criticism and simply must do what is best for you and your family and mother-in-law and ignore her. This thing is so much a holy day/holiday mixture of the 'religious' and incidental it is not all that easy to parse. How do folks at your church handle this; have you sought the advice of your pastor and elders? Usually churches that are strong on this have some experiences and advice they can share.

 

[C. M. Sheffield]

You’re doing a lot of assuming without asking me for clarity. Also, the easiest thing for you to do other than “going with what you have” is to not comment at all. Actually I would appreciate it if you would refrain from commenting any further on my post. Your comments are not welcome here.

I'm sorry, but that is not how this board operates. You would do well to try to control your temper.

 

[Edward]

You’re doing a lot of assuming without asking me for clarity.

Fair enough.

Whose house is it - your house, or your mother-in-laws house?

 

[py3ak]

don’t want to appear hypocritical to family as well.

David, I would suggest that this expression may be the key to a lot of your discomfort. The desire not to be hypocritical, or in other words, to be sincere and consistent is highly commendable. The desire to be recognized or acknowledged as sincere and consistent, while understandable, may be as much a temptation as a valuable consideration.

I don't mean to overstrain the one phrase. But being worried about being measured by your family's standards of what your practice should be given what you've told them, is not the same thing as a concern to honor the Lord. Walk in love, seek peace with all men, and let go any concern about how they will size that up. Whenever we aim for reputation, we lose some degree of that singleness of vision required for the whole body to be full of light.

 

[John The Baptist]

Here’s my :
Unless there are some obvious cultic practices (like praying to Santa or something crazy like that), spend the time with the family and participate in the activities. Remember, nothing inherently wrong with opening presents, games, and the like. I know it’s all tied up with Christmas, but at the end of the day, it’s just activities. And like has been mentioned, it is not interfering with worship, as it is on Saturday. There’s two reasons I think this course of action is wise:
1. For the sake of your mother in law. As has already been expressed, she needs grace at this time. First year without her husband. Regardless of how we think about Christmas, it is good to acknowledge that it will be hard for her, as she does celebrate Christmas and her spouse is no longer there. Seems like her walk with the Lord is either weak or non-existent, so it’s a good opportunity to witness in word and deed.
2. For the sake of your extended family. If they are not Christians, they are now at a gathering where it is possible for the incarnation of Christ to be center stage. What a wonderful opportunity to share the gospel! I think of this as an opportunity to ‘be all things to all people’ that you might win some.

You ought to prepare you children, explaining the situation as best you can to a little one. Then maybe there will be time for a conversation with your mother in law after, to express your concern.

 

[No Other Name]

Then maybe there will be time for a conversation with your mother in law after, to express your concern.

Yes, even more primary to the concern over xmas is the concern that she is not reading the Word or going to church.

I heartily agree with John above me. I would add that if you still insist to see xmas as pagan both in origin and in deed which renders Romans 14 inapplicable, so be it. Can you can use the xmas activities to preach the gospel much like Paul used pagan philosophy and hymns to accentuate his preaching of Christ in Athens (Acts 17)?

Just a thought for you to do with as you will - or will not.

 

[dhh712]

Like Brad, I also agree with John and the others who posted with like thoughts; a key point he brought up (and maybe the others did too, I can't recall now) is that none of the events David mentioned that will be taking place--the gift exchange, games, family gatherings--none of those are inherently sinful. All of these things matter only in terms of the motivation--are we doing these things to the glory of God as we should do all things? (of course, those things like worshipping false idols--as in speaking words of prayer to some god, bowing down to some thing, etc.--murder, theft and so on those inherently sinful things can not be done to the glory of God).

I second the suggestion of the others on here who said to use this gathering as a potential witness of the Lord to family who may not know him at all or very well. As John mentioned, "be all things to all people" (of course again as long as it is not inherently sinful-- we wouldn't take part in a planned robbery so we can witness to thieves; but this is nothing of the sort).

Praying for wisdom from the Lord for you brother and that he will guide you in navigating this difficult situation.