Is Calvinism the Gospel?

[Benjamin]

To many evangelicals, almost all, the 5 points of Calvinism is equated with the Gospel. I hold this position that the 5 points of Calvinism are in fact the doctrines of the Gospel. Yet, how is it then that Spurgeon for example could say that he was saved and was a complete Arminian? If Calvinism is the Gospel, then Arminianism is a false Gospel. If Arminianism is a false Gospel then how could Spurgeon have been saved as a complete Arminian? Also, if Calvinism is the Gospel, why do so many who claim to be reformed change their Gospel when they preach to the lost? Surely the same Gospel that we believe as Christians should be the same Gospel that the lost should hear? Also, if Wesley preached a false Gospel of Arminianism, then how come so many Calvinists speak well of him as being a godly man?

 

[toddpedlar]

Where did you get the idea that Spurgeon was the least bit Arminian?

 

[panta dokimazete]

good question...

"The old truth that Calvin preached, that Augustine preached, that Paul preached, is the truth that I must preach to-day, or else be false to my conscience and my God. I cannot shape the truth; I know of no such thing as paring off the rough edges of a doctrine. John Knox's gospel is my gospel. That which thundered through Scotland must thunder through England again."—C. H. Spurgeon

 

[Benjamin]

His own confession. He had the following to say,

"I remember, when I was converted to God, I was an Arminian thoroughly....I used sometimes to sit down and think, "Well, I sought the Lord four year before I found him."

Again, he had the following to say in one of his sermons,

"I have known some that, at first conversion, have not been very clear in the gospel, who have been made evangelical by their discoveries of their own need of mercy. They could not spell the word "grace". They began with God, but they very soon went on with an F, till it spelt very like "free-will" etc."

 

[Poimen]

I think he meant that Spurgeon was an Arminian before he became a Calvinist.

 

[Benjamin]

I think he meant that Spurgeon was an Arminian before he became a Calvinist.

Exactly. My question is the following. If Calvinism is the Gospel, as Spurgeon said, then how come he got saved through Arminianism, which would have to be heresy and a false Gospel? I believe that Calvinism is the Gospel...yet this question still raises some doubts in my mind. Of course he became thoroughly calvinistic in his thought...yet through his own confession he was saved as a complete Arminian....

 

[danmpem]

I have some parts of Iain Murray's Spurgeon Forgotten that I have been wanting to put on the PB. I guess now is as good of time as any; I'll get to it when I get home.

 

[Benjamin]

I have some parts of Iain Murray's Spurgeon Forgotten that I have been wanting to put on the PB. I guess now is as good of time as any; I'll get to it when I get home.

Cool. I've got that book in front of me now! Good book...Spurgeon was a mighty strong defender of the faith...very bold!

 

[BobVigneault]

Benjamin, you are setting up some aggressive premises that are sinking your arguments from the start.

Calvinism is not the Gospel. It would be accurate to say that Calvinism contains the most pure form of the Gospel, relative to other sytematics.

The 5 points are not Calvinism. The 5 points are a response to the 5 points that the arminian remonstrants put forward.

Calvinism is best expressed in his Institutes and can be outlined and summarized but never reduced to 5 points.

Spurgeon was not an arminian but was indeed calvinistic.

 

[etexas]

What Bob-Cat said,

 

[BobVigneault]

Most folks are arminians when they are saved because by NATURE we tend toward works righteousness. This is true even after we are saved and therefore need to hear repeatedly, the Gospel. The Gospel is that God sent his Son into the world to save sinners. God has done all the work for His elect to come to a saving knowledge.

Calvinism does not save. Calvinism illumines.

 

[Benjamin]

Benjamin, you are setting up some aggressive premises that are sinking your arguments from the start.

Calvinism is not the Gospel. It would be accurate to say that Calvinism contains the most pure form of the Gospel, relative to other sytematics.

The 5 points are not Calvinism. The 5 points are a response to the 5 points that the arminian remonstrants put forward.

Calvinism is best expressed in his Institutes and can be outlined and summarized but never reduced to 5 points.

Spurgeon was not an arminian but was indeed calvinistic.

If Calvinism is NOT the Gospel, as you say, then how can you say that it contains the most pure form of the Gospel, relative to other systematics? Also how most reformed theologians, If i am correct, understand the equation of Calvinism with the Gospel, is that the 5 points of Calvinism are the doctrines of the Gospel. That is my issue here.

 

[BobVigneault]

Calvinism contains a systematic summary of the Gospel which puts emphasis on the Sovereign work of God in salvation. Calvinism helps us to understand the Gospel but Calvinism is not the Gospel. Calvinism isn't perfect, the Gospel is.

 

[Benjamin]

Benjamin, you are setting up some aggressive premises that are sinking your arguments from the start.

Calvinism is not the Gospel. It would be accurate to say that Calvinism contains the most pure form of the Gospel, relative to other sytematics.

The 5 points are not Calvinism. The 5 points are a response to the 5 points that the arminian remonstrants put forward.

Calvinism is best expressed in his Institutes and can be outlined and summarized but never reduced to 5 points.

Spurgeon was not an arminian but was indeed calvinistic.

Let me ask another question. If Calvinism is NOT the Gospel, and it IS the most pure form of the Gospel, relative to other systematics, then how is the Gospel PURER the the doctrines of Calvinism?

 

[Jimmy the Greek]

. . .Calvinism is not the Gospel. It would be accurate to say that Calvinism contains the most pure form of the Gospel, relative to other sytematics.

The 5 points are not Calvinism. The 5 points are a response to the 5 points that the arminian remonstrants put forward. . .

Good points by Bawb. I would add, the five points of Calvinism are not "the gospel" per se. They summarize the doctrines of grace codified at the Synod of Dort. Benjamin, you are suggesting that one cannot come to saving faith in Christ without having accepted/understood the Five Points. I don't believe that is is true. Spurgeon was saved and subsequently became a Calvinist. In fact, that is my testimony.

 

[Benjamin]

Calvinism contains a systematic summary of the Gospel which puts emphasis on the Sovereign work of God in salvation. Calvinism helps us to understand the Gospel but Calvinism is not the Gospel. Calvinism isn't perfect, the Gospel is.

But now you are equating the Gospel with Calvinism...alas...If Calvinism is a systematic summary of the Gospel, then it IS the Gospel. A summary of the Gospel, that helps us understand the Gospel? I am even more confused now...

 

[BobVigneault]

Furthermore, God doesn't use the same labels that we use. You create a dichotomy between calvinists and arminians. A person can be saved even if he doesn't understand the mechanics of how it gets done.

In my monstrous ignorance I fell upon the work of Christ on the cross in total and utter helplessness, dumb as a stump, and I was saved.

Let's not get carried away with how much we know, salvation is still the work of God alone. God saves sinners.

 

[Benjamin]

If Calvinism is not the Gospel, then what did Spurgeon mean? Was he correct in what he said?

 

[danmpem]

Benjamin, you are setting up some aggressive premises that are sinking your arguments from the start.

Calvinism is not the Gospel. It would be accurate to say that Calvinism contains the most pure form of the Gospel, relative to other sytematics.

The 5 points are not Calvinism. The 5 points are a response to the 5 points that the arminian remonstrants put forward.

Calvinism is best expressed in his Institutes and can be outlined and summarized but never reduced to 5 points.

Spurgeon was not an arminian but was indeed calvinistic.

Bob, may I quote that when explaining Calvinism?

 

[Jimmy the Greek]

If Calvinism is not the Gospel, then what did Spurgeon mean? Was he correct in what he said?

He meant he was saved by grace through faith -- before he came to understand the doctrines of grace.

 

[BobVigneault]

Dan, those quotes are not mine. Those are the fundamentals that we have discussed here many times.

Benjamin, you are setting up some aggressive premises that are sinking your arguments from the start.

Calvinism is not the Gospel. It would be accurate to say that Calvinism contains the most pure form of the Gospel, relative to other sytematics.

The 5 points are not Calvinism. The 5 points are a response to the 5 points that the arminian remonstrants put forward.

Calvinism is best expressed in his Institutes and can be outlined and summarized but never reduced to 5 points.

Spurgeon was not an arminian but was indeed calvinistic.

Bob, may I quote that when explaining Calvinism?

 

[Benjamin]

If Calvinism is not the Gospel, then what did Spurgeon mean? Was he correct in what he said?

He meant he was saved by grace through faith -- before he came to understand the doctrines of grace.

That makes sense. However, in heaven will we all understand the doctrines of Grace, i.e. how God saves sinners?

 

[BobVigneault]

Another way to say it would be:

A person is not saved when he comes to the end of Calvin's Institutes, one is saved when he comes to the end of himself.

 

[Jimmy the Greek]

When I was coming to Christ, I thought I was doing it all myself, and though I sought the Lord earnestly, I had no idea the Lord was seeking me. I do not think the young convert is at first aware of this. I can recall the very day and hour when first I received those truths in my own soul – when they were as John Bunyan says, burnt into my heart as with a hot iron; and I can recollect how I felt that I had grown all of a sudden from a babe into a man – that I had made progress in scriptural knowledge, through having found, once for all, the clue to the truth of God . . . I saw that God was at the bottom of it all, and that He was the Author of my faith, and so the whole doctrine of grace opened up to me, and from that doctrine I have not departed to this day, and I desire to make this my constant confession, I ascribe my change wholly to God.

From Spurgeon's Autobiography: 1, The Early Years, Banner of Truth, p. 164-165.

 

[Hippo]

The point is often made that when people say that they are arminian they are usually very inconsistent arminians, and are therefore able to trust in Christ due to their inconsistency.

We are not saved by knowledge but by the grace of God, Calvinism helps us understand that grace but it is not in itself grace. The appointed means by which we partake of this grace is by our trust (or faith) solely in the atoneing blood of Christ (a trust that is a gift of God). Such trust does not require right doctrine therefore an understanding of why we are saved (Calvinism) is very different from being saved.

 

[Jimmy the Greek]

. . .
That makes sense. However, in heaven will we all understand the doctrines of Grace, i.e. how God saves sinners?

I think we will all get our theology straightened out once we get to heaven.

 

[BobVigneault]

These are great questions Benjamin. I am very pleased that you asked them. Keep it up. I remember working through these very same puzzles. (And there's plenty more!)

 

[danmpem]

Dan, those quotes are not mine. Those are the fundamentals that we have discussed here many times.

I guess I just never heard it quite like the way you put it.

 

[ColdSilverMoon]

If Spurgeon said "Calvinism is the Gospel" I would disagree with Him. Calvinism, as Spurgeon probably meant, is our best way of understanding the Gospel, and as Bob said, Calvinism isn't perfect, but the Gospel is.

Arminians still believe in salvation by grace through faith, and not of any works. Their understanding of that grace is off, which is probably Spurgeon's point...

 

[Benjamin]

Calvinism contains a systematic summary of the Gospel which puts emphasis on the Sovereign work of God in salvation. Calvinism helps us to understand the Gospel but Calvinism is not the Gospel. Calvinism isn't perfect, the Gospel is.

How is Calvinism not perfect?